Weird noise
Just finished the new engine for the '64. No it didn't need it, but I like building engines and wanted one just for this altitude (5000') and with more torque and compression just for up here.
Specs: Dart SHP block, 4.155" bore, 3.75" stroke. Callies crank and rods. Mahle pistons, 11.6 to1 with 64cc chambers AFR 195cc heads. Howard hydraulic roller cam with 272/278 duration, .530" lift. Comp 1.5 roller rockers. Compression checks 195 to 200 in all cylinders. Oil pressure 50+ psi and steady. The engine is running on a test stand and the noise is loudest from the bellhousing area(flywheel installed, but no clutch). Laying the stethescope on the base of the distributor produces the loudest noise, and follows the rpm as it comes up. It sounds just like a loose rocker, but it is not. I've talked to techs from both Dart and Howards and both thought oil pump and or distributor were the source of the noise, so I pulled it apart and replaced both parts with new pieces. No change. While the pan was off I pulled all the main and rods caps and everything looks dandy. I'm about out of ideas at this point never having had an engine do this before, so I'm looking for thoughts, positive, negative or otherwise. Any help appreciated. Dave |
Can you pin down the frequency? Crank speed, cam speed or erratic?
Tom |
Cam speed. It follows the throttle exactly and sounds like a loose rocker. If I stick the steth probe on the distributor it sounds like a nasty knocking noise.
Gotta take the dog to obedience class now, back in a couple hours. |
Are you using the mechanical fuel pump? They have been known to "Tick" like a rocker.
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Are you using a cam button or retainer plate? Retro roller cam/lifters or stock GM style?
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Originally Posted by claysmoker
(Post 1582554149)
Cam speed. It follows the throttle exactly and sounds like a loose rocker. If I stick the steth probe on the distributor it sounds like a nasty knocking noise.
Gotta take the dog to obedience class now, back in a couple hours. |
Same issue did it as a new 350 and right off the bat when I stroked it.
Thought maybe the endplay was loose or a lifter touching another lobe. Cant pinpoint it everything checks out just running it anyway. Done/checked everything else known to man lol. |
Originally Posted by 67vetteal
(Post 1582554175)
Are you using the mechanical fuel pump? They have been known to "Tick" like a rocker.
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Originally Posted by Sky65
(Post 1582554241)
Are you using a cam button or retainer plate? Retro roller cam/lifters or stock GM style?
It's almost like there is something out of line in the distributor shaft/pump drive shaft/pump. I'm using a ARP drive shaft which is constant OD and I've noticed that some shafts have a reduced diameter through the mid part. I saw no evidence that the shaft was hammering inside the clearance hole, but I may swap shafts since I'm probably tearing it apart again anyway. There's no big rush to get it in the car since I wasn't going to put it in until next Spring anyway, but I have to find out what's doing it. Not being correct just drives me nuts. |
Originally Posted by midyearvette
(Post 1582554588)
be sure the dist. is not bottoming out on the pump shaft....pull the dist and set it back in without the round gasket, it should fit snugly atop the intake manifold....any gap is bad news, maybe need two gaskets or a nylon shim??......just thought i would take a shot...good luck....:rock:
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Thanks for the comments. I'll keep digging.
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I'm building an engine now and also using a roller cam, although it is from Comp Cams. They require a composite distributor gear for use with the retrofit roller cams. A quick look shows that Howard offers one as well. Perhaps the same exact part. Did they mention if one is needed for their cam?
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Sounds like a challenge to find. A distributor noise should sound off at 1/2 engine speed . The cam rotates at half crankshaft speed.
I have seen a odd noise like this cause by Flywheel mounting bolts, one was just long enough to hit on the back of the block on each rotation. Made one heck of a noise and was hard to determine. A cracked flex plate can make this noise also but I think I read you have a flywheel on this engine. How much piston to cyl head clearance do you have? Any chance you have one tapping on the cyl head? Sounds like a minor rod knock when you have this issue. I may be off base but trying to kick out a couple new possibilities. |
This engine is stroked, any chance the Connecting rods are tapping the block or a piston skirt. This was an issue when 383's GM engines were first being created. ARP offers Rod Bolts that offer more clearance and many have had to grind on blocks for clearance.
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Is the flywheel cover installed?
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Originally Posted by EDinPA
(Post 1582555681)
I'm building an engine now and also using a roller cam, although it is from Comp Cams. They require a composite distributor gear for use with the retrofit roller cams. A quick look shows that Howard offers one as well. Perhaps the same exact part. Did they mention if one is needed for their cam?
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Originally Posted by Westlotorn
(Post 1582555700)
Sounds like a challenge to find. A distributor noise should sound off at 1/2 engine speed . The cam rotates at half crankshaft speed.
I have seen a odd noise like this cause by Flywheel mounting bolts, one was just long enough to hit on the back of the block on each rotation. Made one heck of a noise and was hard to determine. A cracked flex plate can make this noise also but I think I read you have a flywheel on this engine. How much piston to cyl head clearance do you have? Any chance you have one tapping on the cyl head? Sounds like a minor rod knock when you have this issue. I may be off base but trying to kick out a couple new possibilities. Piston to head is .043", and I put the scope probe on the heads at each cylinder. All quiet. Also tried pulling one plug wire at a time, no change. Thanks for the thoughts.:thumbs: |
Originally Posted by Westlotorn
(Post 1582555705)
This engine is stroked, any chance the Connecting rods are tapping the block or a piston skirt. This was an issue when 383's GM engines were first being created. ARP offers Rod Bolts that offer more clearance and many have had to grind on blocks for clearance.
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Originally Posted by 65 vette dude
(Post 1582555845)
Is the flywheel cover installed?
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FWIW, my 3.85" stroke 427 SB needed a special cam with a smaller base circle AND cam clearanced rods and rod bolts so the cam and rods would not touch each other.
You have only .050" less radial distance than my crank, my cam has a .050" smaller base circle. And it isn't a radical cam This was on a std deck height Dart Little M Doug |
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