Less than a week to go.. and still no official pics!
 

What kinda CIA security did GM hire to protect this car. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a production vehicle so well hidden from the public. Less than a week to go, and not a single actual picture of the car (sans camo) has made its way onto the internet. I was absolutely sure stuff would start popping up a week or two away from the actual reveal as those with access to that material get less weary of GM legal action.

Seriously.. We've had the original Jalaponik leak, Keek's CAD stuff, BlueOx manual drawings and a few odds & ends like the front fascia & rear bumper cover. Whoever is in charge of the C7 security project, should be the next CIA director! Definitely does a better job of hiding secrets than Petraeus lol.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/07/i...heartauto-app/

Well here's something thats not secret anymore. 2014 GM vehicles will get the iHeart radio. Thats pretty big news in my eyes as my primary music listening is Pandora & iHeart radio. Both of which should be supported by the C7 infotainment system.

I applaud them, because they are realy doing a great job.

They have not built any new Corvette yet, only the demo vehicles used for testing and for the reveal. With very limited vehicles, no one is able to grab a pic of it. May not surprise me if some people have to wait until 2014 to get a hand on their new Corvette.

They have like 50 camo cars driving around the country, not one.

It also has to do with the fact that GM is concealing the C7 from even its own. A NYC exec from GM lives in town and I've become friendly with him and to this day he swears he hasn't seen or heard anything in detail about the C7 (I will be calling him today about a personal matter, so I'll ask again if I can pry any info out of him...).

GM really wants 1/13/13 to be a significant event, not just the official reveal of a car everyone has seen months earlier, despite what Jalopnik wants us all to believe.

You should know that many people use that line to hide the fact that they can't talk about it. If he said he did know something, you'd be on his butt constantly trying to pry info from him.

I spent years in the DOD and that is a standard dodge.

I doubt a test vehicle will be used in the reveal.

So much has changed since we last discussed this topic five days ago:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-g...curity-gm.html

I don't even know where to begin.

.Jinx

I'm not expecting him to show me photos of the real car, but he could have said "yeah, I've seen it."

Who knows, maybe he'll tell me more of what he knew after 1/13/13.

Maybe, but then you'd be buggin him about the future C7 versions, when they are coming out, what will or won't be on them, yatta yatta yatta. Why would he want to deal with that?:D

I wanna know about what's planned for the C8, sure hate to buy a C7 to be disappointed when the C8 comes out as a Camaro.

No "official" GM photos yet, but hell we saw as close as it gets months ago with the jalopnik stuff, and on top of that I think the red car could be the actual car from GT5. Wouldn't be the first time a toy or video game leaked in advance. We've probably seen almost the exact thing, but since it doesn't have a GM stamp or embargo we aren't thinking that much of it.

I know people involved with it. You have to respect they can't talk about it IF they want a job. Watching all the speculation and rumors is much more fun. Only a few more days :woohoo:

OK, sure!:lol:

Yeah! What she said!:cheers:

Hey, you got their phone number?

I am very impressed with GM security but that is if you don't include Jalopnik.

Just think, if we never had Jalopnik , Keeks stuff would have not had much credibility no matter how CADCAMMY it was and of course the same for the line drawings from the Ox.

I still want to know the story behind how Jalopnik got to see the body panels, etc. We will probably never know though.

:yesnod::lol::auto: They all have me on call blocking :hide:

Well, I agree to a point. I didn't buy the Jalopnik images meant much until the Omega Tool video confirmed the nose and rear end. That was the tipping point for me.

I will personally write a letter of recommendation to the guy/gal who planned this 'campaign' if it was all a dodge and the car looks significantly different (by that I mean nothing like it) than the Jalopnik image.

There was a that poll a while ago that asked if we believed there would be a major leak before the the unveiling of the C7 in all it's glory without camo, etc. I voted their would be a leak. With less than a week to go, it looks like I may have to give major props to GM if they manage no leaks by then. Their security is tighter than military security...:rofl:

That poll is why I started this thread. It started months ago, when the official reveal website started. I posted in there that we would see the real car (actual uncovered pictures) about a week or two out from 01/13/13. I thought for sure, as there has to be pictures of the C7.. they just have not been leaked.

To my surprise.. we are just 6 days away and have seen pretty much nothing new but the same ole drawings & renders.

I want to know also.

I would love to see the designs on the mid engined car ( this was going to happen ) and I am curious how old ( or new ) the C7 design is. Was it around before the mid engined program or did they go all out with a clean slate after the bankruptcy ?

There will probably be a book on the C7 with pictures of rejected drawings/designs and the whole process Chevy Studio went through in designing the car. Hopefully it will enlighten us on whether the design was in place before the mid engine car was axed once again. That is why I am not holding my breath on a mid engine C8. GM will be in another self made crisis and the C8 will continue with a simila platform we now have.

Intellectual property of that value won't be revealed.

I thought I remember hearing that C7 development was delayed and changed because of GM's financial situation, and that they focused more funds on developing the Volt. My guess is that the actual C7 was mainly designed after the bankruptcy.

Just to kill more time, the history lesson again:

C5

http://palmeter.com/wp-content/pics/C5Spy01.jpg

http://palmeter.com/wp-content/pics/C5Spy02.jpg

Above – Automotive News – October 28, 1996 – Along with sister Crain Communications publication AutoWeek, AN showed the first public pix of an undisguised C5.

"When finally introduced at Detroit’s North American International Auto Show on January 6, 1997, the first publicly displayed C5 represented Chevrolet’s first truly all-new Corvette since the original was introduced at the 1953 Motorama."

Therefore, the C5 was spotted more than two months before intro.

C6

http://palmeter.com/wp-content/pics/C6Spy69.jpg

http://palmeter.com/wp-content/pics/C6Spy71.jpg

Above – November 16, 2003 – Two pix caught during a GM publicity photo shoot by Benjamin Kopf IV of San Francisco and contributed to CorvetteForum.com. He got the BIG prize for the first shots of the final version!

"On Sunday evening, January 4, 2004 at 7:00 pm, the 2005 Corvette was officially announced to the world.

So the C6 was caught about a month and a half prior to intro.

C7

Way to go GM; I want to be surprised!! :thumbs:

David

I have always maintained that we have seen whatever GM wanted us to see and NOTHING MORE. Based on how tight the security has been (NOT ONE UNDISGUISED CAR HAS BEEN PHOTOGRAPHED), to think that GM had an undisguised C7 laying around somewhere in November 2011, in an unsecured location, ripe for Jalopnik picking, is silly.

Jimmy

I'm absolutely amazed we haven't seen more too.

I am also surprised that no real pics have been leaked, but I think we have seen very high quality renderings that are probably extremely accurate.

Great point

Yeah real silly to believe Jalopnik saw some early body panels instead of believing GM itself let them see the car and do a controlled release :rolleyes:

Do you think Keeks got his stuff from the same place Jalopnik got theirs ?

Keeks works for GM....true story:D

Yep. He's a security guard on the 3rd shift at the St. Catharines Engine Plant in Canada, or something like that :rock: :rock: :rock:

I'd love to see the link to that story. :D

Ox and Keeks are "gift horses" and I will not look at their mouths. :nono:

You should know you work with him in the same department:rofl:

C'mon in for a closer look, dude!
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/LaughingHorse.gif

Ox and Keeks on the job looking at the C7!:rofl:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4..._002_super.jpg

Yep. Keeks gets to have the whistle cause he's boss man. :rock: :rock: :rock:

Keeks is definitely the guy on the left, cocky as hell :spit:

Nah, more like this...that's me on the left.:D
http://www.betternation.org/wp-conte..._1024_768.jpeg

:rofl::rofl:

Ox on break:

http://qjphotos.files.wordpress.com/...rity-guard.jpg

Keeks on his break
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/image...farisrogen.jpg

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Go back and read the original 2011 Jalopnik story....they claim to have spent HOURS with 2 undisguised C7's, and yet, they only gave us renderings???? No one had a smart phone on them? I guess they (Jalopnik) were "protecting" their source which is the excuse (for no photos) I've heard a million times. The problem with the "protecting the source" deal is that there couldn't be many C7's laying around in November 2011 and I'm sure that GM knew where they ALL WERE at any given time.

Roll your eyes all you want, and enjoy the Jalopnik koolaid. And almost 13 months after the Jalopnik "renderings" appeared, why has there not been ONE car phototgraphed undisguised????

Jimmy

Maybe "you" should go back and read it

"These renderings were derived from hours this weekend I (and our designer) spent in secret, poring over the completely uncamouflaged "sheetmetal" of two versions of the next-gen Corvette."

There is no way this is a GM marketing conspiracy

I don't think this is a "conspiracy". I also don't believe that a GM supplier or a GM employee gave Jalopnik access to the car without some higher up's blessing at GM. I believe they saw what they saw (and rendered), I just doubt that it was "in secret". After Jalopnik's "scoop", all they have done since is post stuff from other people (Keek's CADs, Blue Ox's owners manual drawings, Trinity's renders, etc). If GM security was (is) that lax, why haven't we seen a photo of the undisguised car? The car will be revealed in 6 days, we had seen photos of the C5 and the C6 prior to the "reveal", in the case of the C5, MONTHS before reveal and in the case of the C6, six weeks before the reveal. As a final thought, why did Jalopnik ONLY show a rendering of the "high performance" C7, which, most everyone agrees, will not appear before 2016? They spent "hours" with both cars.....

Jimmy

Sigh, they didn't see the car, they saw sheet metal body panels probably due to some careless supplier.

It could have been a toy that Jalopnik was looking at. A "metal" toy. Maybe it had to "rendered" to make it more accurate and believable. They did not want to photograph a toy.

Then how did they get the wheels right?

Jimmy

I disagree. They got the wheels, windows, taillights, exhaust, headlights, mirrors, you-get-the-point right. Its hard to believe they saw just a bunch parts lying around and not the entire assembled car.

Not to mention the Vette is made of fiberglass and composites.. not sheet metal :)



Here is the link to the original JP article:

http://jalopnik.com/5858683/exclusiv...chevy-corvette

Jimmyb, please do better than "clever marketing ploy" to explain why a GM higher-up would allow leaking such a comprehensive look at the new Corvette 18 months before it's available for sale... and then deny it and go to not-insignificant lengths to squash later releases of much-less comprehensive information.

The simpler explanation is that Jalopnik people got temporary access to an undisguised representation, physical or otherwise, of the next-generation Corvette, in contravention of GM security measures.

.Jinx

Also a few things to note from the author of the JP article. You can tell he has actually seen a completed car, not just a bunch of parts.

1) Seems there is no additional widebody version of C7. The JP author has seen BOTH the a base version and a high performance model to debut later, which he describes as ZR1 "trim". He did not state it was wider.
2) The JP author has pictures. He clearly states that he did not want to show actual photos as it would reveal his sources.
3) The JP author states the C7 drawing shown is of an actual IVER car that was being used at the Milford proving grounds.
4) I think what he means by "sheetmetal" is that the surface of the vehicle was bare (i.e. not painted).

These renderings were derived from hours this weekend I (and our designer) spent in secret, poring over the completely uncamouflaged "sheetmetal" of two versions of the next-gen Corvette. With limited time, we decided to, rather than show you the first one, a base level Corvette, we focused our rendering efforts instead on the high-performance ZR1 trim level.

None of our sources were willing to go on the record or allow me to run their name for fear they might lose their jobs. That's also why I'm showing renderings rather than actual photos — I don't care if it might cast doubt on the veracity of the styling — but I didn't want anyone losing their job over this.

That said, we showed these images to three different sources at General Motors — and all three confirmed that the images you see here accurately portray the ZR1 trim level for the seventh-generation Corvette. A fourth source — a non-GM employee — confirmed that the vehicle we show here is one of two Initial Vehicle Engineering Release (IVER) vehicles that's been making the rounds at the Milford Proving Grounds.

I think a telltale issue with Jalopnik might be the side marker lamps. Jalopnik claims they had full access to the real deal + hours to scrutinize the car yet they got the placement and scale wrong on the side lamps.
Keeks CAD of the 3/4 rear shot is probably 100% accurate but the Jalopnik rendering has a different size and different placement on these lights. Let me add that the details on the rear fascia (lower vents ,etc,) are off too.
If they were looking at a toy these mistakes could come easy. If a toy was photographed it would reveal their sources.

Also remember what they saw were basically IVER testing vehicles and that was almost 14 months ago. Thats more than enough time for those items you pointed out of place to have been moved/changed/updated.

I agree that Keeks CAD images are probably the most accurate production drawings we have seen so far.

Engineering test vehicle explains a lot, still want to know how they got access. I am however still laughing at the idea of some covert marketing plot and GM actually allowing someone from GAWKER media take a look at the car.

Jinx,
What did GM do to "squash" later releases of info? Keeks took the CADs down himself, Blue Ox took his owners manual drawings down himself, neither act mattered not one bit because they were all over the internet by then. Jalopnik NEVER took down their render, which was a MUCH bigger deal than Keeks/Blue Ox info. Do you think GM is so naive that they (GM) think they can put the genie BACK in the bottle?

In the end, we should agree to disagree. My thought is (and has been) that the LACK of a photo of an undisguised car, 5 days before reveal, speaks volumes about the level of security surrounding the car.

You clearly believe that the "leaks" are unintentional and circumventing GM security.

What I know is that we'll never know who's right. The upside is we'll see the real car in 5 days.

Jimmy

You might be underestimating GM. While I certainly don't know what really happened, I firmly believe that the automakers want a certain amount of information leaking out. I think it is possible that Jalopnik was allowed to see the car, but not cameras.

As to only the high performance version, who's to say that it's the high performance version? I've seen those renderings many times and never saw anything that indicated that to me.

I'm just speculating as we all are, but at this point its more fun to speculate about the new Corvette than it is to sit around and watch the Real Housewives.

So, first you say they (Jalopnik) saw only "sheetmetal" panels to prove your point (and disprove mine). Then, when it is pointed out that they (jalopnik) got OTHER things right (side marker lights, wheels, etc), you think that it's a research vehicle.

Please stop putting YOUR spin on what I wrote. I never said "conspiracy" or "covert". You can write what you want but you (or anyone else) has yet to explain HOW Jalopnik got to spend time with 2 cars in November 2011. Seriously, you think Jalopnik somehow broke into a GM facility, spent "hours" there, posted a render, and GM DID NOTHING ABOUT IT?

Jimmy

Sheetmetal was directly quoted from the jalopnik article, there is no spin. No company would ever allow anyone from gawker media to take a look at an unreleased product. I bet the whole gizmodo iphone 4 leak was a controlled marketing plot by Apple!

Sheet Metal? No wonder the new car is so light..

Nah the iPhone4 leak from Giz was the real deal. Hell Apple sent the cops after them. Even now.. Giz has been permanently banned from attending Apple press events. I usually watch the coverage on Engadget, and keep a browser tab open to watch Giz trying to scrape together bits & pieces from other sites actually attending the event.

Nice to see another Vette from Arlington, VA!

Oh I know, they were idiots for doing that as well, they paid what $5k for it and are now banned for life. But that is my reasoning as to why I highly doubt GM let someone from the same parent company get even remotely near an unfinished product and purposely leak information/renderings of it.

From my perspective, if GM orchestrated all the Jalopnik/Omega/Keeks/BlueOx info dumps, they deserve a friggen metal for it. Is it unlikely? Who's to say in today's internet-driven, hyper-speed distribution model?

What I find most interesting in this new paradigm is that it creates the appearance that the tail is wagging the dog, as in apparently normal people on the internet are dumping info to the masses and the automotive media vs the other way around.

It could be that GM has paid just enough attention to see people strategically placed in major forums/blogs and find untraceable ways to get them info, knowing they will pass it on. It could be just a sorry security system or it could be a great way to publicly float a design concept balloon to test it out.

Who knows, Jalopnik, CorvetteOnLine, Keeks and I might well have been unknowing mules, carrying the addictive drug for GM to it's slavish devotees!

The "iphone4 leak" is not remotely the same thing. The iphone4 leak was an Apple employee leaving the iphone in a bar/restaurant (a PUBLIC place), not someone going on to Apple property to gain access to the phone.

So, again, how did Jalopnik get in the same room for "hours" with 2 C7's? If it was done "secretly" with a GM employee, then the question is, why would any GM employee risk his/her career for Gawker media? Legally, Jalopnik could be charged with breaking and entering (even with a GM employee) as they (Jalopnik) were not authorized to be there and they (Jalopnik) were "Stealing" proprietary information (see industrial espionage). Taking that further, if the above scenario is correct, GM, one would think, would sic it's LEGIONS of lawyers on Jalopnik to squash the article. As we all know, THIS DID NOT HAPPEN. We know it didn't happen because Jalopnik would not miss the opportunity to say "Look at us, we tried to bring you the C7 and big bad GM sic'd their lawyers on us".

Maybe you haven't been around long enough but many years ago (I think it was late 2004/early 2005), a forum member published photos of an undisguised 2006 Z06 and was visited at his home by members of GM security asking where the photos were obtained, etc. Now, I wasn't there so I can't CONFIRM this actually happened, but it sure got a lot of play here and all over the internet.

Jimmy

If GM did send lawyers after Jalopnik it would confirm the renderings were real, OMEGA tools sent them a take down notice and they ignored it. I have no idea how they got access to it, industry contacts, being sneaky, who knows, but I highly doubt it was done with GM's blessing.

Shouldn't the car be at Cobo right now....I don't think they will sneak it in on the last day. Someone has to have seen it by now.

Truth is it could have easily been a non-GM warehouse employee who knew someone to get them into a place where test mules were housed at night. The guy may have been fired and the lawyers may not have wanted to confirm it all by making a huge deal out of it.

In the end, you have to ask yourself what GM might have gained by doing it that way vs other ways. Why would they do it this way? Did it just cost them a lot less to do it this way? It's stuff we'll never know.

It’s difficult to determine any truth to what’s become controversially evident to date; perhaps it’s indeed a clever ruse on GM’s part to run a campaign in parallel to the yet undisclosed and tightly secreted design still under wraps that may be entirely different from what’s been "unofficially" debuted. Time will tell, and then again ...may it's already done so.

That is true. Not that it is even close to the same level of secretiveness, but Madden accidentally leaked the Buffalo Bills uniforms in a commercial a month or so before they were actually revealed to the public.

I would doubt that any non-GM employee would have access to the cars on GM property in November 2011, I assume all the C7's were on GM property. Remember the C6 photo in a warehouse getting ready to be shipped to the Nurburgring? That was an off site photo and the employee (not a GM employee) was fired. I don't think this is the same situation.

So, I guess we'll never know if this was a clever, very controlled leaking of info by GM or if it was clever folks gaining access. What I believe still is that it was the former, based on lack of photos of undisguised cars. And hey, it was a fun discussion to keep us all busy and we didn't have to discuss back seats/AWD/taillights/cheap Ferrari knockoff/etc.

Jimmy

But why would you assume that? If these cars were being tested in Canada and New Mexico, what makes you think they don't use non-GM buildings?

I don't know where this was shot but if the photog got this close, who knows who else could have gotten in there.
http://images.thecarconnection.com/l...00379464_l.jpg

I assume that because the Jalopnik render was first shown in November 2011, and I would bet that NO C7 had left GM property at that point. C6's with C7 running gear....most definitely, but not actual C7's. And, I have no idea how close the photographer got to take this photo, but, again, I'll bet he wasn't 10 feet away like this looks.

Jimmy

Since Jalopnik "saw" (as they claim) the C7 a year before it's official release(NAICS), maybe GM let them "see" an early clay model, not the final design. GM got a lot of buzz out of it(great marketing ploy) and was able to have a year lead on final design, to gage consumer reactions to the "basic" design of the C7.

In 1968, the final design production door panel molds had been cut for the new 68 Vette. The new panels were fitted to a pre-production car and Arkus-Duntov did not like them as they restricted the elbow room. GM brass didn't want to change the design(ie: buy new molds) at the last minute, but Arkus-Duntov insisted(and got his way). GM redesigned the door panels, and new molds were cut, at an expense of $150,000(1968 dollars), just to gain an additional 1/2" of elbow room on each side of the car. This was at the last minute, not a year before production was to start.

My point....Last minute changes are made to products. In the past year, GM could be making "last minute" changes, based on feedback from "leaked" info on the C7.

GM use to have a facility in Manitou Springs, CO(on the main drag down town) for brake testing at Pikes Peak, etc. It had zero markings, just a chain link fence, a small metal storage building to hold test equipment and sand bags, etc) and a drive-on above ground portable weight scale. Vehicles were not stored in a covered building, but left out in the open(behind a locked gate). We would walk in and look around when it was open. The guys working there were friendly and didn't hassle us. We stayed out of their way and were not taking pics(this was before camera phones).

I saw a lot of different GM cameoed cars and trucks there when it was in operation. The last time I visited there, everything was gone, just a bare lot left. I'll be back there this summer, so I'll stop by and see if they have re-opened it. I doubt it, but they could. It was a very minimal facility.

I saw it already

I was looking for pictures taken from the grassy knoll.....the one next to the GM test track

My thoughts exactly, probably planned from the get go. Better to fill the vacuum with disinformation that let it fill naturally.

The GM 1.13.13 banner with the silhouette of the C7 looks great.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-g...n-detroit.html

:rofl:

I will point out that the 1968 Corvette was first revealed as a Hot Wheel. The same happened with the New Viper (different brand toy, IIRC).

Sometimes the car manufacturers reveal to toy makers before the official reveal so that when the reveal happens, then the toys can come out to create so more hype. Nothing like the kids urging their parents to get that cool new car, just like the Hot Wheels.