How much is the new front end design influenced by Euro pedestrian crash laws?
Did any of the design seminars at the bash address this? Is it true the protrusions on the front fascia and the taller hood cowl are there specifically to meed Euro pedestrian crash standards?
I saw a video linked in another thread specifically discussing why so many new cars look so similar. Flatter, taller front ends and taller hoods (for more space between the hood and engine) give pedestrians more of a chance for less injury. IMO it's making cars bulky and ugly... higher hoods = high belt lines we're seeing since the design has to flow. My $0.02 if you can't look both ways before you cross you deserve what's coming to you. If a drunk is flying through an intersection at 80 you're screwed no matter what. Stop making our cars uglier... better yet why not mandate pedestrian safety gear :willy: EDIT - I love the C7... I just think it'd look even better with a lower sleeker profile and no front end fang things and it annoys me that these are here because of stupid laws. One of the teaser videos showed C7 design sketches and one was the front end sans fangs... much cooler. |
Originally Posted by travisnd
(Post 1583896808)
Did any of the design seminars at the bash address this? Is it true the protrusions on the front fascia and the taller hood cowl are there specifically to meed Euro pedestrian crash standards?
I saw a video linked in another thread specifically discussing why so many new cars look so similar. Flatter, taller front ends and taller hoods (for more space between the hood and engine) give pedestrians more of a chance for less injury. IMO it's making cars bulky and ugly... higher hoods = high belt lines we're seeing since the design has to flow. My $0.02 if you can't look both ways before you cross you deserve what's coming to you. If a drunk is flying through an intersection at 80 you're screwed no matter what. Stop making our cars uglier... better yet why not mandate pedestrian safety gear :willy: EDIT - I love the C7... I just think it'd look even better with a lower sleeker profile and no front end fang things and it annoys me that these are here because of stupid laws. One of the teaser videos showed C7 design sketches and one was the front end sans fangs... much cooler. http://stwot.motortrend.com/files/20...ra-image-1.jpg |
Actually a great deal of it is affected by the European pedestrian safety laws.
The bumper design, the front fascia, the "fangs", the headlights, hood height, and inner design are all impacted by EU/NCAP Phase 1 and Phase 2 Pedestrian safety. Keep in mind however that simple ergonomics play a role in the greenhouse height, the belt line, the windshield rake, the angles because a certain amount of volume must be available for cabin isolation and comfort as well as adequate ingress and egress. You are further constrained by domestic safety laws, room for inflatable restraint systems, steering column impact, knee room etc. There are currently 16 different crash and impact tests that must be done to certify the car as crash and impact worthy for the markets they plan to sell the Corvette. |
Originally Posted by rcallen484
(Post 1583897009)
Cannot get much lower, if at all, with a V8 engine under the hood. Just the inch or so that the body can be lowered that many have done with the C6. This isn't low?:
http://stwot.motortrend.com/files/20...ra-image-1.jpg http://www.transmissioncenter.net/Vette2.jpg http://www.clanpalumbo.com/graphics/hud.jpg Then with the C6 they went a little higher, but nothing compared to the C7. http://stblogs.automotive.com/files/...71-623x362.jpg http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...0/6f44e750.jpg These crash standards necessitate the high hood/fenders which then creates the need for the super high belt line... then you can't cruise with your arm out the window. Just look at the Gen V Camaro... the C7 is very similar.
Originally Posted by talon90
(Post 1583897077)
Actually a great deal of it is affected by the European pedestrian safety laws.
The bumper design, the front fascia, the "fangs", the headlights, hood height, and inner design are all impacted by EU/NCAP Phase 1 and Phase 2 Pedestrian safety. Keep in mind however that simple ergonomics play a role in the greenhouse height, the belt line, the windshield rake, the angles because a certain amount of volume must be available for cabin isolation and comfort as well as adequate ingress and egress. You are further constrained by domestic safety laws, room for inflatable restraint systems, steering column impact, knee room etc. There are currently 16 different crash and impact tests that must be done to certify the car as crash and impact worthy for the markets they plan to sell the Corvette. |
Originally Posted by travisnd
(Post 1583897213)
I'm not talking about ride height at all. The hood is beginning to have a cowl reminiscent of a Mustang.
But you're totally right in that another huge part of it is PedPro. I've stated here a few times: it's a shot across the bow (hood?) of sorts. These laws are going to get worse and worse unless you yell at your respective Congess-critters. Pedestrians don't need to be protected from cars, they need to stay the f(!) out of the road when there's traffic nearby. jas |
Yep, thank the nanny states (countries).
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As much as we have heard that the pop up headlights from the C5 were discarded because the C6R "race teams" wanted flush headlights on the C6, the truth is that the C5 pop up headlights would not conform to the EU pedestrian regulations, so they were eliminated.
BTW, the C5R race cars did not have pop up headlights, as they used almost flush headlights. |
Originally Posted by jvp
(Post 1583897262)
Part of that cowl height is to make sure there's room for... um... other things. :D
But you're totally right in that another huge part of it is PedPro. I've stated here a few times: it's a shot across the bow (hood?) of sorts. These laws are going to get worse and worse unless you yell at your respective Congess-critters. Pedestrians don't need to be protected from cars, they need to stay the f(!) out of the road when there's traffic nearby. jas Just irks me that Euro nanny-state regulations are determining what we get here. I understand the "global economy" and all, but it's still annoying. Again... for the record I love the C7's overall design, but these little things are starting to stick out and it annoys me because you know they wouldn't be there if the laws of other countries didn't require it. I think my first mod to a C7 would be shaving the fangs and repainting. Easy to do. |
Question: How exactly do the fangs protect pedestrians?
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Originally Posted by travisnd
(Post 1583897213)
I'm not talking about ride height at all. The hood is beginning to have a cowl reminiscent of a Mustang. One of my favorite things about the C5 is how low-slung the center of the hood is; the cowl isn't raised at all. Great road view. No issues fitting a V8 under a very low hood line here. Look how tall the front end of the ar is on the C7 vs. the sleek C5.
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Originally Posted by travisnd
(Post 1583897213)
Look how tall the front end of the car is on the C7 vs. the sleek C5.
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/Vette2.jpg http://pthumbnails.5min.com/10352860..._3_628_443.jpg Will it be much different from a ZR1? My initial guess would be the views will be similar. The C7 is certainly lower and sleeker than other front-engine coupes, the primary example being the new F-Type, which has a bathtub beltline by comparison. That car seems to be a chopped XK and retains the XK's active pop-up hood that provides additional crush space on top of the few inches that are already there. |
Originally Posted by JoesC5
(Post 1583897370)
As much as we have heard that the pop up headlights from the C5 were discarded because the C6R "race teams" wanted flush headlights on the C6, the truth is that the C5 pop up headlights would not conform to the EU pedestrian regulations, so they were eliminated.
BTW, the C5R race cars did not have pop up headlights, as they used almost flush headlights. |
Originally Posted by Magister Ludi
(Post 1583897567)
Question: How exactly do the fangs protect pedestrians?
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Originally Posted by Magister Ludi
(Post 1583897567)
Question: How exactly do the fangs protect pedestrians?
The new standard is intended to impact the pedestrian lower on the shin which in practice does less damage to the individual but also causes them to fall forward towards the vehicle. The second purpose is the shape is designed to either cast them off to the side of the vehicle or gather them in the center of the vehicle where there are also changes to the hood allowing for impact zones that are designed to decellerate the pedestrian on impact by collapsing (bowing). Hence the higher rise to the hood. |
Originally Posted by talon90
(Post 1583897904)
There are two aspects to the impact law. The first is intended to have the lowest point of impact below the knees of the pedestrian. With older (higher large protruding front bumper vehicles) the impact tends to fracture the knee or higher up on the torso doing internal damange and risking knocking the person over backward where they get run over by the vehicle.
The new standard is intended to impact the pedestrian lower on the shin which in practice does less damage to the individual but also causes them to fall forward towards the vehicle. The second purpose is the shape is designed to either cast them off to the side of the vehicle or gather them in the center of the vehicle where there are also changes to the hood allowing for impact zones that are designed to decellerate the pedestrian on impact by collapsing (bowing). Hence the higher rise to the hood. |
Originally Posted by BlueOx
(Post 1583897838)
As much as Joe has argued this point for years, there is no evidence this was GM's reasoning. In fact there is evidence, that I have put here numerous times, that GM got rid of the popups for weight, reliability, efficiency and esthetic reasons. The lights were inefficient, looked old fashioned, were too heavy, were unreliable, and they wanted to get rid of them.
Of course, the C6 was slated for entry in to stricter European markets and the pedestrian safety was taken in to consideration because even then, protrusions up above the hood cause injury to pedestrians. Last but not least was the simple fact that the light given off by the C5 headlamps was horrible. The car was nearly dangerous to drive at night. The HID lighting was such a welcome change. |
Originally Posted by rcallen484
(Post 1583897952)
What happens if you get hit by the FedEx delivery truck delivering your Corvette mod pieces? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: They didn't think of that, did they? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Originally Posted by talon90
(Post 1583897904)
There are two aspects to the impact law. The first is intended to have the lowest point of impact below the knees of the pedestrian. With older (higher large protruding front bumper vehicles) the impact tends to fracture the knee or higher up on the torso doing internal damange and risking knocking the person over backward where they get run over by the vehicle.
The new standard is intended to impact the pedestrian lower on the shin which in practice does less damage to the individual but also causes them to fall forward towards the vehicle. The second purpose is the shape is designed to either cast them off to the side of the vehicle or gather them in the center of the vehicle where there are also changes to the hood allowing for impact zones that are designed to decellerate the pedestrian on impact by collapsing (bowing). Hence the higher rise to the hood. |
Originally Posted by talon90
(Post 1583897904)
...the shape is designed to... cast them off to the side of the vehicle ...
The railroads have been doing this for years! I'm sure when you get hit by one of these, the fact that it'll cast you off to the side will make everything A-OK! http://hd.wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/...omotive-t2.jpg |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1583898371)
Is this the reason the Camaro does not have "fangs" ?
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...-bOMYi0ar_nH3g http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....6/60994for.jpg http://carandsuv.s3.amazonaws.com/wp...dition-fq-.jpg http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...onda-civic.jpg http://wardsauto.com/site-files/ward...2/mazda3-1.jpg http://www.hybridcars.com/files/2012...Front-Left.jpg |
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