Miles vs age
 

Plan to look at a couple cars this weekend.

A 2005 with 33k miles and a 2009 with 70k.

Would appreciate thoughts in considering the trade offs between each.

btw - I tried to search, but once again failed miserably :(

How much is each one?

You can no doubt find a newer one with fewer miles, but the price would be higher.

The 2009 is a private sale asking $28k

The 2005 is a dealer asking $30k

I can no doubt eventually find a newer one with lower miles at a higher price, but my budget is pretty firm.

I'm mostly interested in how to frame the trade offs between these two options.

The newer one has the LS3 in it and Bluetooth capability if its equipped. I think they are both a bit overpriced. The 05 more than the 09. I sold my 08 LS3 with 73,000 for 26 thousand. If the 09 has a clutch see if its been replaced, check brakes/rotors. I would be leaning toward the newer one but it does have twice the mileage. Buy the one that is cleanest imo.

There are a few things to do as far as pricing goes. One what are they selling for in your area. It will differ from area to area. Second you can always look at the KBB for a good starting point. Also there will always be those that tell you the are over priced and I assume they are simply basing that on what they would be willing to pay, or what they are selling for in their general area. Also remember the asking process is normally not what the seller or dealer will take.
According to the KBB the '08 retail is right at $32,500 and that was just using the options that have set at default. so if it is more then a 1LT the price may be higher.
The '09 is listed at $27,000 in excellent condition and again this is based on the 1LT package.
IIt really comes down to you as far as mileage and options of both. The '09 has the LS3 which is rated at 430hp or 436 with the NPP option while the '05 has the LS2 rated at 400hp. If they are both automatics, the '05 has the 4-speed auto and the '09 has the 6-speed auto with the paddle shifters. the mileage on the '09 is just about right for the age of the car, and if it was well maintained there should not be an issue with it.
So As I mentioned if you are not in the mood to look more, then you need to decide which one grabs you more then the other, based on exterior color and interior color, options and overall price. When I decide to final move up from my C5 to a C6, I was sure it would be an '08 or '09 because of the LS3. Well I ended up with an '07 because it had the 3LT, full nav. system, plus the wide body kit, black chrome Z06 style wheels and I loved the color combo of Monterey Red Metallic and Cashmere interior. I really did not notice that much of a difference in the overall performance of the LS2 and the KS3.

personally, i would keep looking. i know you'll find a better deal somewhere, unless of course your in a rush. which would be foolish considering the amount you'll be spending, and the fact you don't want to buy a lemon. anyway, good hunting and lots of luck.:thumbs:

Interesting question. I don't know the answer, but I don't think the OP is trying to just evaluate his specific deal.

I believe he's asking, all other things being equal, is more miles newer better than less miles older? I'm interested in that answer as well.

i'm in no huge rush, but I would like to find something before the first week of August.

Thanks for the feedback. But what would you consider a better deal?

Bingo! :thumbs:

Even if I end up buying neither I want to make sure I understand what I'm trading off in each case.

Id probably go for the ls3 and I would offer less, try to get it for 25-26k. Curious about options, trim level, and condition of each though? Another thing going for the 09 is you get to talk to the previous owner and get an idea for how it lived its life.

Edit: Just saw most recent posts, for me Id take newer and more miles if all else was equal. The platform would have gone through revisions, should have less issues then the first model year, newer engine, more creature comforts(aux input for example).

The 2005 is a 1SB

The 2009 is a 1LT

Both are manual Z-51. Both have after market nav.

Thanks for the specific input on newer + miles vs older & less miles. That's exactly what I'm looking for.

They are relatively equal, as the price is the indicator of value.

The unknown is how you intend to use the car and the length of time you expect to own it.

If it's to be a weekend toy at car shows and a garage queen in between, then low mileage will be the best return on value in the long term.

If it's a DD and fun cruiser or occasional track car, then low mileage takes a back seat to the enjoyment and use, because a bigger chunk of mileage based depreciation has already been used up. The age based depreciation will always be 4 years less than the '05.

The first week of Aug is not that far away, so it sound like you may be in a little rush. As far as the constantly shopping for a better deal, sometime you pass up a better car thinking you will find something even better. Every Corvette I have bought except my first one were one of the first ones I looked at, had them checked and bought them with in a few days of looking at them. I am the type that when I see something I like I buy it. All were good cars and no real trouble. Sure you can spend months searching and test driving and that is fine if you really have not found that one that simply says this is it. But if you find one that you know it is what you are looking for and it checks out and you don't buy, you may really regret it down the road.

It would be good if you could how many times a car has been driven (doors opened and closed, motor started). I would rather have a car driven 50 miles a day for 3 years than one that went 2 miles to work and back for 8 years. Look at the seats and other wear items.

If all things are equal, then give me the less miles which equals less wear and tear which in essence equals newer in all but a date on a title.
However all things are not equal here.
The difference
The 05 is the first yr of a generation. That is the biggest bother to me. They usually have the most bugs which are worked out by the 3rd yr.
Then there's the LS2 vs LS3. Not a game changer for me. You can gain the 30 HP difference with a tune and a few minor mods.
I'm not sure but I think the 09 has an updated tranny too. But don't take my word on that.

For me, I don't like the choices you have. The 05 is 1st yr and the 09 with 70k is unacceptable . But maybe the 70k doesn't bother you. Each has different priorities. As for pricing, that is easily enough gotten online with KBB.com or MADA.com. The price I pay is trade value. Never retail. Its all about the negotiation and getting what you want in the budget you can afford. Good luck. But take your time and maybe look at some other options. Just my opinion. Good luck.

Perhaps the most insightful comment so far :cool:

This will be my DD and occasional hill country cruiser, although my commute is short so I don't expect to put more than 8-10k a year on it.

Still this logic does point to the 09 is fitting my criteria better.

I would go for the LS3 engine. Get the newest year car you can afford IMO

Personally, I think the 2005 at $30K is WAY too much. And I'm not sure I'd want a 4 year old car with almost 80,000 miles.

Let me give you some recent experience:

I totaled my 2003 in September 2012 (not my fault ... SUV pulled across my path). It had about 114,000 miles on it, and my insurance company gave me just over $20,000 for it. So that's one data point.

Two weeks later I bought an '09 1LT with Z51 and in a "red crystal tricoat", which is a $1K option. The car had 12,500 miles and was like new in all respects. It was a Certified Pre-Owned car, so I bought it from a dealer. KBB retail at the time was $38K and I paid $36K.

So you can probably get a better deal than $28K for the high mileage car. But if it's got to be one of the two you mentioned, I'd go with the newer car with more miles. But you can most likely find a similar car with fewer miles for very close to the same price.

Tell me about it... I narrowly missed buying two cars over the past few weeks, one was the dealers fault :mad: and someone beat me to the other :(

Have you made a Post in the C6 Cars Sale - Cars Wanted Sections? If not I'd suggest you go there. List your max budget and what you basically want. Deals happen. :thumbs:

You can get an 06 Z06 with 60k on it for 35k. Both of those are overpriced

Yessir!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...ral-texas.html

Got a few interesting PMs, but nothing that was a 'no brainer'. Either too far away, too expensive or both.

Thanks, will keep that in mind when it comes time to negotiate.

IMO, I would not buy an '05 unless it has every known issue (and there were quite a few that first year) addressed and corrected. Not to say they are all questionable cars, but.........

Get the newest car you can find/afford and don't limit yourself to your local market. There are great deals to be had from the Forum Vendors and a drive home from a couple states away would be fun.

At this point, I think you should keep looking, but it wouldn't hurt to test drive both cars and get yourself a little SOTP education.

Good Luck.

My advice as a new c6 owner is pass on both. I bought an 08 1LT last week for 29m. It's black and has 18,000 miles. Perfect shape. Corsa exhaust. Now, I had to travel 500 miles to get it, but it was well worth it. Be patient and keep looking hard. I found mine on cars.com which is typically used by dealers, but mine was by owner. Good luck.

If the 2005 is a 1SB (all options) it has the factory nav.

got my 2005 1sb 65k miles. for 20,500. Keep looking. Dont be afraid of the 05, mine still had issues, bought the parts to fix now its flawless.

Yup. But this one has an after market nav.

Could you guys elaborate a bit on the 2005 issues? I've heard others mention it and searched a bit. I came up with 1 recall and some column issues. Anything else?

Get the LS3. The 30 hp is more like 50 when you put these cars on the dyno. Interior is also much more attractive with the carbon fiber inserts in the 08+.

Good luck on both, the c6 is awesome either way.

I personally would go with the 09, ls3 engine. Check the in service date, an 09 comes with a 5yr. 100,000 mile factory powertrain warranty, so its probably still under warranty. JMHO

I would go for the newer one, but would haggle on the price. My red 08 had 52000K when I got it two years ago and it's been perfect. I talked to the previous owner and the miles were about 80% interstate. I also had an 04 C5 Z51 6m that I bought with 75000K and it never gave a problem in 10,000 miles. I sold it to buy the silver 10 C6 with 20,000 miles two months ago.

TO MUCH MONEY for an 05...for 30 grand you can get into an 07- 08 with much lower miles then 70 and possibly even less then 33k miles!I'd pass on the 09.To much money for the miles in my opinion,with all the VETTES out here with way lower miles.

I would always go for the newer car. The least straightforward failure modes to correct tend to be those that progress with age more than with travel. An older car may be more likely to experience:

-Embrittlement, creep and fatigue of elastomeric components (e.g. leaking seals, hoses & weather strips, loose powertrain mounts, etc.)

-Creep/cracking of plastic parts...plastics inherently age poorly and the effects are accelerated with things like UV exposure and thermal cycling. As an anecdote, a friend's ultra-low mileage early C6 has far more squeaks, creaks and rattles than my 2011 car does.

-Corrosion, which can reduce heat exchanger efficiency, result in poor conductivity at electrical contacts and make fasteners difficult to remove for maintenance

Corvettes contain a staggering number of components that will deteriorate with age regardless of mileage. The components that do wear with usage tend to be a) fairly robust (thinking of the moving parts in the power train and driveline) and b) straightforward to replace (running gear, switch gear, etc.). I bet that even the driveline is more likely to require service because of a leak than due to a mechanical failure.

Regardless of the mid-cycle improvements, I would go for the newer car. Especially because of those improvements, I would go for the newer car. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

I got 24K for my 36k mile 2008 1LT A6 a few months ago on trade.
I paid 39k for a 2013 1LT A6 after my 1K gmcard rebate and corvette owner loyalty.

Great answer, this is exactly what I was looking for and really gives me some things to look & listen for. I'm going to go see the '05 tomorrow morning, will let you know how it goes!

That was great info about plastics in a car.
I saw that first hand yesterday while looking at older cars.
2002 Z28 168k miles - this car was pretty darned clean

1985 Transam 130k miles - this car was NOT clean and I didn't even bother driving it. Almost everything was in a partial state of decay or destroyed. The air intake was leaking somewhere, all hoses were bulging etc. If I were to buy this car I would have to replace everything rubber and plastic on the thing including mounts that I can't do myself.

1996 Formula 77k miles - this car was pretty good but the dash was cracked despite it being garaged for so long. In fact, the owner bought it from someone who had it in the garage for years. The first day he took it out to drive it the dash cracked.

My advice is to look at a LOT of cars.

Make sure you ask questions. My 2008 Corvette stayed in my garage at home and the garage at work. It was in MUCH better shape than any other 2008 I saw at dealers lots and I think UV is a big part of it. Especially here in Tampa.

Stay out of the 2005's if possible. I'm sure there isn't anything necessarily wrong with them, however first year models are always good to avoid when possible. And the 2005 you have listed is definitely overpriced.

I would try to find a nice middle ground between the two of them. Personal preference, but i would try to get at least a 2008 with the LS3 motor and maybe between 30k to 50k miles. You should be able to check in right around $30,000 for a well kept 2008.

As others have mentioned, definitely look around at a lot of different Corvettes. You will find that they are absolutely everywhere and if you're not picky on color, you can find some very good deals.

If you find a 2008 for 30k you might consider buying a 2013 1LT for 39K like I did if you can get one for that.
There was a forum dealer selling a brand new 2012 1LT automatic yellow vette for 36k and I should have bought it when it was available.

Check out cars.com or autotrader.com

These will give you a good idea of what are fair asking prices. Look at both dealers and private sales.

Both cars overpriced imho. I just picked up a mint loaded 3lt 06 with 7500 miles for just under 31K. But i also got 20k for my 2000 c5 with 50k...

Both cars are over priced, look for a 2008 or 2009 with less than 20,000
Miles. Search all the car sites with fairly wide scope not just local. They are out there! Certified cars have great rates on them now and warranty.

Just ran this exercise.

For similarly optioned cars I got the following results on AutoTrader.

18 or so M6 2005s w/ 1sb and Z51 and less than 50k miles.

Average price $30,123.
Low: $25,995
High: $32,995

5 or so 2008+ w/ more than 60k miles, ignored options due to low sample size.

Average price $29,119
Low: $27,000
High: $30,621

Based on this the asking price of both cars seems reasonable.

I've never liked this comparison, because all of those numbers are based on cars that are still for sale. There's a reason why all of those cars are still for sale.

I started my 2002 almost $4000 more than I ended up selling for. Using that info, the statistics would raise the average price when running a comparison like this, although as I have mentioned, my car went for quite a bit less.

Exactly!
One more time: You want a good idea of market value, check completed sales listings on Ebay.
That will tell you what buyers are willing to pay.
Not what sellers are willing to ask.

Best answer hands down I think! Even the warranties kind of reflect this, 3/36k bumper to bumper and 5/100k drivetrain if I am not mistaken.

We had a 2006 and now a 2009, comparable to what the OP is looking at.

The 2006 is a good car.
The 2009 is a GREAT car.

IMO, I would go with the one "Least used". In this case the older/less milage car.

If you put 25K miles on it you will have a very limited pool of buyers when you go to sell it with over a 100K on the odo. Older car with low miles will always command interest.:thumbs:....after all you're considering one.

In the end, it's a mechanical thing and the one with the least wear is your best bet.

Well said. Could'nt have said it any better myself. When buying used, you are buying miles, regardless of the year. Granted the 09 offers slightly better horsepower. The 05 is going to give you all the horsepower you can use on the street and then some. With a 37000 mile difference in miles, how many years use is that for you? Determine in your mind the mileage that is acceptable to you, then buy the car that is the color, coupe or convertible, options that you want and you will be much happier with the car. Good Luck with the hunt. That is part of the fun. Be sure and search the Corvette Forums forsale section. You can speak with the seller and get a feeling for how he takes care of that particular car. I bought my last two Vettes here on the Corvette Forum and have been very pleased with the cars.

In the interest of Full Disclosure, we must note that JKbride's profile says that he has a 2005. Whiteboy has a 2006.

As mentioned in post #48 (more Full Disclosure), we have owned two Corvettes very similar to the two that OP is considering. Our current 2009 has 61k miles, and I'd take it in a heartbeat over anything before 2008 regardless of miles. There is that much difference between the years.

Not to say that you can't have fun with a 2005, but ...

No doubt always buy the newest, nicest you can afford, but if you buy a car with 75k miles, you'll hit 100K before you know it.

As a owner who knows how my car was driven and maintained I would have no issue with having lots of miles ( in fact they are meant to be driven), but unless I knew the owner and car, I would pass on one with 75K miles, LS3 or not.

.....and yes, I have fun in my trouble free 2005 that I purchased 2 years ago with 20,100 on the odo:thumbs: And appreciate the previous owner kept the miles down till I came along. When mine comes up for sale it will likely have 100k miles :D

an '05 for 30k is silly. The '09 with the LS3 FTW I say despite the miles.

Condition is more important than miles. Not every Corvette owner does flushes and induction cleanings, for example. Check the maintenance records.

If it adds any credibility, I am a reliability engineer--the guy who conducts endurance tests, analyzes field failure statistics, redesigns components for reliability growth and sets/validates likelihood of surviving warranty periods...