Guibo
I am not trying to be funny or nothing... but I gotta ask... do you have a job, or do you work outta the house, or actually get paid to post on forums or something?

No seriously... I am not making fun, I am just curious. A lot of the Corvette faithful drift in and out, post some then get tired and go away for a while... then drift back in. But we get breaks from this.

But you are kind of relentless with the P car (actually, any other non Vette car) defense.... you must get tired, or bored, or just get fed up with us Vette knuckle-heads after a while right?

The lot of us are not changing your mind for sure, and I doubt you have converted any of the Bow-tie faithful....

hats off to you for sticking it out so long....

In your spare time, do you go over to the Porsche forum and talk up the Vettes?

Sounds to me like you've just made a salient argument for why the Corvette is a superior car in many ways! :D

Seriously, 'tho - what hard data do you have to back up your claim that the Corvette has a lower CoG? How can that upright V8 produce a lower CoG than a flat 6?

:iagree: :funnypost:


Like I said before, Guibo is the:

The data is provided in the C&D test:
C7 - 17.5 inches
911 - 19.0

The engine is an important part of CoG, but it's a lot lighter than a steel body. Superior...yet it wasn't anymore fun to drive. I would argue that having fun is an important part of owning a sports car. Of course, you might disagree.

oops!
 

I didn't make my point very clearly there!

Anyways, it really is amazing how a balls out $150K+ high TECH 911 Porsche could not be killing the C7 at a performing <50%:

CC brakes
AW steering
AWD
PDK
DOHC

OBSOLETE and game over!(Chrismas comes early as this is all of what I was thinking would happen; benchmarked!):thumbs:

(Will the C7 Z06 come with iron brakes, and 560hp?)

:rock:

Whose Post?
 

2013 Cayman S Nurburgring time 7:55!:smash:

:lurk:

It's interesting in that both the C7 and, I believe, the 911, have EPAS systems developed by/with ZF. The mechanical componentry of these systems probably share architectures, to an extent. The big differences could be in the control algorithms, and the feedback, if any exists.

Do you know specifically how the GT3 system differs from the base 911, in terms of filtering?


I said "perceived" underdog, by many who either are not car enthusiasts, or who are dedicated fans of only one brand. Of course, you and I both recognize the Corvette as the superior car. :lol: :)

I also own a '12 GS (4LT CE with all options, so not cheap), but I bet the fanboys here have never driven a Cayman S, especially the 981. I have, and plenty of Ferraris and other exotic cars. And as a driving enthusiast, I fully agree with your assessment. And just having attended Spring Mountain, the review was spot on too. But I understand not all of us value driving experience more than a faster car. I MUCH rather drive a Cayman S over my GS or a C7, even if it's 2 or whatever seconds slower on a track. Or slower to 60, or whatever other test. If I was making a living competing at tracks, then I'd choose the Corvette. But for me the best numbers don't mean much. Heck, I could make a Civic beat the Vette, if that was the purpose... and for a lot less money than the Vette.

The easiest way to know if you truly think the Vette is the better car overall, is if somebody offered you either car for free, which one would you choose? Answer honestly, and that'd be the better car for you. Having driven many very expensive cars, I'd choose the Cayman S (manual, of course) over any other car. And yes, I'd load it to around $100K if it was for free :D. And no, I've never cared for the badge, attention, or any of that crap. My brother's Ferrari usually sits in my garage, and I honestly rather drive the GS. Even when he used to have an older 430 manual, I only enjoyed it tearing up the mountains. And just like on a sportbike, I was beat when I got home (live far from the twisties). And did I mention I HATE the attention? Some folks just live for that, but I'm the opposite.

Bottom line for me is this: the Corvette is the best performance car bang for the buck. The Cayman S is the best driver car bang for the buck. I could never justify one before, but the new one is just incredible. And it'll be my next car after I'm done with the GS :yesnod:. But unfortunately, no more than 85 grand for me :(... which is not much more than a C7. Have a good one folks.

My understanding is that the standard car filters out certain frequencies that result in a kind of "chatter" or subtle tramlining which some people find annoying or tiring. The GT3 system differs in that these filters are removed.

I said it has a superior base for being a fast track car, so should come as no surprise that it's faster on the track. I didn't say anything about it being superior overall. ;)

Your comment about the 981 especially resonates. I just bought a Boxster 981. While it isn't as fast as my Z, by a long shot, it is a more enjoyable drive. At this point, having driven vettes and 981's, offering me either one for free, I would go for the 981, with a BIG motor. :D

Yes, sometimes, no (wouldn't that be great).

No (not yet, and I don't consider you knuckleheads).

No.

More on the GT3's steering, from C&D:
"The standard 991’s electric power assistance has divided opinion, but the GT3 gets a weightier and more direct helm that, crucially, also offers a skosh more feedback than that of the standard Carrera and Carrera S. The base system is the same, but the GT3 gets revised software, sturdier mounts*, and changed geometry. The result is firmer and weightier, but it also feels like a large percentage of the ‘noise’ that had been programmed out of the base system to make it smoother has been coded back in."

In his interview with C&D, Tadge Juechter describes the C7's steering rack as "solid-mounted." Could possibly be metal bushings where others use rubber or hard urethane.

And yet it wasn't any less fun to drive either!:yesnod: So, for a price differential of about $80k the Corvette clearly offers both an objective and subjective advantage over the 911 for those of us who are not among the 1%ers. Those who prefer the status of the Porsche nameplate may disagree. :D

The Porsche advertising slogan of "There is no substitute" is now clearly obsolete!!! :lol:

C&D rating, Fun to Drive
911: 25 points
C7: 23 points
Sure seems like the 911 was more fun to drive to them.

It's actually not, for many of the reasons already mentioned. There are things you get on the Porsche that you simply can't get on the Corvette, even as an option. If you're among the .01% of drivers who track their cars at 10/10ths pace and realize those performance differences then I agree, the C7 is a unbeatable proposition. Unless you come across a guy in a modified C5Z or C6, which I'd wager is more likely to happen (in America) than coming across a bone stock Porsche likewise being lapped at 10/10ths...;)

Wow, you just introduced an "apples to zebras" type of comparison. If mods are now your basis of comparison, one could always take a fraction of that $80k price differential, put it into the C7, and blow away the competitors you list - including the Porsche by an even larger margin.....

I just love the way you always introduce new factors into the discussion to try and stay ahead of the issue at hand......:willy:

But climbing hills!
 

Willow is flat I beleave:

1:24.6 vs 1:27; 2.4s

Laguna Seca

1:38.28(suspect?-1s) vs 1:41.26; 3.98s

The Ring

4:55:smash:

I don't think having to dog it up a hill is fun!:rofl:

:rock:

Never said mods were the basis of comparison. What you actually encounter out on track is relevant, if you are so insecure about being beaten. Which it seems you are. As I've been saying, how these cars are used is entirely relevant, and encountering modified Corvettes (nevermind Evos, GT-Rs, Mustangs, M3s, etc) is entirely consistent with this message. But modified vs stock raises another important issue: Warranty and security that the company backs its product is often MORE important than whether one car is faster than another. Thus, it proves my point: Outright fractional lap times are not everything.
The issue at hand is that the Corvette still does not offer everything the Porsche does. If it doesn't, then how can you claim it's a substitute?

Wow, so now you're an amateur psychiatrist as well as being an expert on everything else too?:lol: Show me one post where I said anything about my needing to win on the track. In fact, I don't track my cars at all, except an occasional autocross event. You just make s**t up to try and appear to be smarter/better than the next person. :crazy:

Miriam-Webster - substitute:

" a person or thing that takes the place or function of another"

I guess the C7 can't "substitute" for the 911 because it doesn't have those spacious rear seats and therefore does not provide that supposed "functionality"................ :rofl:

Your own words contradict themselves, good sir!

That's not a contradiction. In neither case was the modification the basis for the comparison. In both cases, what you are likely to encounter in those scenarios IS the basis.