Cadillac Escala Concept Debuts 4.2-Liter Twin-Turbo V8 - The LT5 is Here!
08-19-2016, 09:34 AM
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Cadillac Escala Concept Debuts 4.2-Liter Twin-Turbo V8 - The LT5 is Here!
From autoevolution.com...
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ca...v8-110457.html
UPDATE: The following is taken directly from Cadillac's website. While the information provided is limited, it does go to show once again that you cannot believe everything you read from automotive news sources (though anyone who has been around for a day or two already knows this). LOL
Another Cadillac concept car, the Elmiraj, has a 4.5 liter twin turbo V8 and is described on the Cadillac website as follows:
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ca...v8-110457.html
Escala. The Spanish word for scale. According to Cadillac, Escala has yet another meaning. More to the point, the Escala Concept here “sets the standard of premium for all cars to be measured.”
The concept vehicle before your eyes is, for all intents and purposes, a design study that is meant to preview the styling language of upcoming Cadillac models. But more than that, it is the first General Motors vehicle that makes use of the heavily-anticipated 4.2-liter twin-turbo V8 tower-of-power.
Internally referred to as LT5, this force-fed V8 shouldn’t be confused with the small-block LT5 from the C4 Corvette ZR-1. It is a clean-sheet design that’s expected to arrive on at least three General Motors vehicles. One of them is the next model year for the Cadillac CT6, the other is the yet-to-debut luxury sedan slotted above the CT6, and the third is, of course, the C8 Corvette. And yes, all leads point toward a mid-engined C8 Corvette due for MY 2019.
Nothing else except the displacement of the engine, number of cylinders, cylinder deactivation function, and twin-turbo system is known about the LT5 V8, at least for the time being. The other thing you need to know about the Cadillac Escala Concept is that it is a “four-door expressive flagship sedan with lift-back rear opening.” The manufacturer mumbles something about it being a “more expressive, expansive companion” to the CT6 and, based on its dimensions, it is precisely that. Let’s get down to crunching some numbers.Here are the dimensions for the CT6: 5,184 mm (204.1 in) length, 3,108 mm (122.4 in) wheelbase, 1,879 mm (74 in) width, and 1,473 mm (58 in) height. Here are the dimensions for the Escala Concept: 5,347 mm (210.5 in) length, 3,228 mm (127.1 in) wheelbase, 1,948 mm (76.7 in) width, and 1,455 mm (57.3 in) height. That’s right, the Cadillac Escala Concept is marginally more imperial than the CT6 sedan, and that’s perfectly a-OK.
Instead of boring you with the OLED screens of the cabin, I’ll let Cadillac CEO Johan de Nysschen light up our imagination with a tell-tale statement: “Escala is a concept car, but one based upon the unrelenting rise of our product substance. Depending on the development of market segment for large luxury sedans, Escala is a potential addition to our existing product plan.”
Excited? You’d better be!
The concept vehicle before your eyes is, for all intents and purposes, a design study that is meant to preview the styling language of upcoming Cadillac models. But more than that, it is the first General Motors vehicle that makes use of the heavily-anticipated 4.2-liter twin-turbo V8 tower-of-power.
Internally referred to as LT5, this force-fed V8 shouldn’t be confused with the small-block LT5 from the C4 Corvette ZR-1. It is a clean-sheet design that’s expected to arrive on at least three General Motors vehicles. One of them is the next model year for the Cadillac CT6, the other is the yet-to-debut luxury sedan slotted above the CT6, and the third is, of course, the C8 Corvette. And yes, all leads point toward a mid-engined C8 Corvette due for MY 2019.
Nothing else except the displacement of the engine, number of cylinders, cylinder deactivation function, and twin-turbo system is known about the LT5 V8, at least for the time being. The other thing you need to know about the Cadillac Escala Concept is that it is a “four-door expressive flagship sedan with lift-back rear opening.” The manufacturer mumbles something about it being a “more expressive, expansive companion” to the CT6 and, based on its dimensions, it is precisely that. Let’s get down to crunching some numbers.Here are the dimensions for the CT6: 5,184 mm (204.1 in) length, 3,108 mm (122.4 in) wheelbase, 1,879 mm (74 in) width, and 1,473 mm (58 in) height. Here are the dimensions for the Escala Concept: 5,347 mm (210.5 in) length, 3,228 mm (127.1 in) wheelbase, 1,948 mm (76.7 in) width, and 1,455 mm (57.3 in) height. That’s right, the Cadillac Escala Concept is marginally more imperial than the CT6 sedan, and that’s perfectly a-OK.
Instead of boring you with the OLED screens of the cabin, I’ll let Cadillac CEO Johan de Nysschen light up our imagination with a tell-tale statement: “Escala is a concept car, but one based upon the unrelenting rise of our product substance. Depending on the development of market segment for large luxury sedans, Escala is a potential addition to our existing product plan.”
Excited? You’d better be!
ESCALA PERFORMANCE
In addition to the technology and craftsmanship, the Escala offers a robust performance system featuring a powerful 4.0L V8 engine and a new RWD-centric mixed-material construction which makes it as powerful as it is beautiful.
In addition to the technology and craftsmanship, the Escala offers a robust performance system featuring a powerful 4.0L V8 engine and a new RWD-centric mixed-material construction which makes it as powerful as it is beautiful.
PERFORMANCE AT THE HEART OF IT
Elmiraj advances our philosophy of provocative modern design and engaging rear-wheel drive performance, with a 4.5-liter twin turbocharged V8 delivering an estimated 500 hp. The engine takes the baseline technology from the Cadillac Twin Turbo V6 and expands it to the classic performance format of a V8 engine.
Elmiraj advances our philosophy of provocative modern design and engaging rear-wheel drive performance, with a 4.5-liter twin turbocharged V8 delivering an estimated 500 hp. The engine takes the baseline technology from the Cadillac Twin Turbo V6 and expands it to the classic performance format of a V8 engine.
Last edited by jagamajajaran; 08-21-2016 at 11:13 AM.
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08-19-2016, 09:49 AM
#2
Pro
No power numbers? Quit teasing us, GM! It does sound like just the engine for the C8.
08-19-2016, 11:23 AM
#4
Team Owner
I bet the third car that will received the 4.2L TT V8 will be a mid engine Cadillac sports car first, followed by a mid engine Corvette a couple of years later, and both the mid engine models will be built in the new addition to the plant that is currently under construction. I also bet that the current Bowling Green assembly line contines to build front engine Corvettes for well into the future.
It has been announced that the workforce in Bowling Green will be increased by 270 people(with 36 of them in the enlarged engine build shop). You don't add ~25-30% more workers to build a low volume mid engine Corvette that completely replaces the current front engine Corvette.
The current 6.2L will also power the front engine Corvettes for quite awhile as it is cheap to build and is used in millions of pickup trucks. GM does not want the 4.2L V8TT engine "dumbed" down, thus loosing it's "prestige" by putting it in a "bread and butter" Corvette built for the masses.
It has been announced that the workforce in Bowling Green will be increased by 270 people(with 36 of them in the enlarged engine build shop). You don't add ~25-30% more workers to build a low volume mid engine Corvette that completely replaces the current front engine Corvette.
The current 6.2L will also power the front engine Corvettes for quite awhile as it is cheap to build and is used in millions of pickup trucks. GM does not want the 4.2L V8TT engine "dumbed" down, thus loosing it's "prestige" by putting it in a "bread and butter" Corvette built for the masses.
Last edited by JoesC5; 08-19-2016 at 11:50 AM.
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SpeedyD (08-25-2016)
08-19-2016, 11:41 AM
#5
Just the engine that was expected for the next gen Vette.
Like it or not, the SC has to go.
It can't compete with a turbo on fuel economy.
How long a NA will still be available in a Corvette is anyone's guess at this point.
I wasn't too worried about GM dropping V8s from the powertrain lineup as it would certainly have caused a lot of gnashing of teeth.
Like it or not, the SC has to go.
It can't compete with a turbo on fuel economy.
How long a NA will still be available in a Corvette is anyone's guess at this point.
I wasn't too worried about GM dropping V8s from the powertrain lineup as it would certainly have caused a lot of gnashing of teeth.
Last edited by sunsalem; 08-19-2016 at 02:25 PM.
08-19-2016, 02:30 PM
#8
The profile is reminiscent of the initial MB CLS 4 door "coupe" (which Audi also copied).
The front has a no-nonsense, bada$$ look to it.
The front has a no-nonsense, bada$$ look to it.
08-19-2016, 02:37 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
This makes me glad I got a c7z. That tiny motor is not what I want. It will never sound/feel like American muscle. The 7.0 in the C6 and this LT4 are true muscle engines.
08-19-2016, 02:41 PM
#10
Safety Car
I don't get it, what if it's just a larger displacement Cadillac engine?
The 3.6L V6 LF3 in the 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport makes only 420 hp in all it's twin-turbocharged glory. Scaled to a 4.2 liters we're looking at 490hp.
GM's DOHC engines are unusually boring to me, except that one developed with borrowed engineering for the ZR1 in the 90s.
The fact that is a DOHC Twin Turbo V8 means nothing to me. It could be so pedestrian than no one will take a glance at it.
The 3.6L V6 LF3 in the 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport makes only 420 hp in all it's twin-turbocharged glory. Scaled to a 4.2 liters we're looking at 490hp.
GM's DOHC engines are unusually boring to me, except that one developed with borrowed engineering for the ZR1 in the 90s.
The fact that is a DOHC Twin Turbo V8 means nothing to me. It could be so pedestrian than no one will take a glance at it.
Last edited by SBC_and_a_stick; 08-19-2016 at 02:43 PM.
08-19-2016, 02:52 PM
#11
The 3.6L V6 LF3 in the 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport makes only 420 hp in all it's twin-turbocharged glory. Scaled to a 4.2 liters we're looking at 490hp.
The fact that is a DOHC Twin Turbo V8 means nothing to me. It could be so pedestrian than no one will take a glance at it.
The fact that is a DOHC Twin Turbo V8 means nothing to me. It could be so pedestrian than no one will take a glance at it.
Ferrari 3.9 TT V8 = 661hp, 561lbs.
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GSpeed (08-19-2016)
08-19-2016, 03:08 PM
#12
Safety Car
And I can show you a 4 cylinder Honda that can be boosted to over 50% more on a stock block. Once you go boost, max power output doesn't prove a thing. The best comparison is still the DOHC twin turbo V6 released by Cadillac just two years ago.
Can you really compare GM DOHC head flow with Ferrari DOHC head flow? Is GM's engine validation as lax as Ricardo's? Would Corvette buyers tolerate the amount of turbo lag in a 3.8 V8 of that output when they've driven almost exclusively lag free small blocks for 60+ years? I venture that GM doesn't have a proper cure for turbo lag yet that they can bring to market. The Caddy V6 is a low output/liter engine using small turbos and mid size pipe runs. What happens when you scale that up only 20% but want nearly 200% output? Turbos get bigger and runs get larger, and lag suffers.
Can you really compare GM DOHC head flow with Ferrari DOHC head flow? Is GM's engine validation as lax as Ricardo's? Would Corvette buyers tolerate the amount of turbo lag in a 3.8 V8 of that output when they've driven almost exclusively lag free small blocks for 60+ years? I venture that GM doesn't have a proper cure for turbo lag yet that they can bring to market. The Caddy V6 is a low output/liter engine using small turbos and mid size pipe runs. What happens when you scale that up only 20% but want nearly 200% output? Turbos get bigger and runs get larger, and lag suffers.
08-19-2016, 04:40 PM
#13
Race Director
Looks like a Camarillac..... I'm interested though 
08-19-2016, 08:48 PM
#14
Can you really compare GM DOHC head flow with Ferrari DOHC head flow? Is GM's engine validation as lax as Ricardo's? Would Corvette buyers tolerate the amount of turbo lag in a 3.8 V8 of that output when they've driven almost exclusively lag free small blocks for 60+ years? I venture that GM doesn't have a proper cure for turbo lag yet that they can bring to market. The Caddy V6 is a low output/liter engine using small turbos and mid size pipe runs. What happens when you scale that up only 20% but want nearly 200% output? Turbos get bigger and runs get larger, and lag suffers.
What I do know is the latest hi-tech turbo powerplants are as close to lag-free as we have ever been.
For example, some journalists who have driven the Ferrari have written it, for all intents and purposes, acts like an NA.
There is no question GM (and everyone else) is continuing to develop their turbo engines.
I am certain their next product will be superior to the 2 year old Caddy.
FWIW, next time I go to Vegas I'll be driving the Ferrari and the McLaren here:
http://www.exoticsracing.com/
08-19-2016, 08:55 PM
#15
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I bet the third car that will received the 4.2L TT V8 will be a mid engine Cadillac sports car first, followed by a mid engine Corvette a couple of years later, and both the mid engine models will be built in the new addition to the plant that is currently under construction. I also bet that the current Bowling Green assembly line contines to build front engine Corvettes for well into the future.
It has been announced that the workforce in Bowling Green will be increased by 270 people(with 36 of them in the enlarged engine build shop). You don't add ~25-30% more workers to build a low volume mid engine Corvette that completely replaces the current front engine Corvette.
The current 6.2L will also power the front engine Corvettes for quite awhile as it is cheap to build and is used in millions of pickup trucks. GM does not want the 4.2L V8TT engine "dumbed" down, thus loosing it's "prestige" by putting it in a "bread and butter" Corvette built for the masses.
It has been announced that the workforce in Bowling Green will be increased by 270 people(with 36 of them in the enlarged engine build shop). You don't add ~25-30% more workers to build a low volume mid engine Corvette that completely replaces the current front engine Corvette.
The current 6.2L will also power the front engine Corvettes for quite awhile as it is cheap to build and is used in millions of pickup trucks. GM does not want the 4.2L V8TT engine "dumbed" down, thus loosing it's "prestige" by putting it in a "bread and butter" Corvette built for the masses.
Bill
08-19-2016, 08:58 PM
#16
I don't get it, what if it's just a larger displacement Cadillac engine?
The 3.6L V6 LF3 in the 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport makes only 420 hp in all it's twin-turbocharged glory. Scaled to a 4.2 liters we're looking at 490hp.
GM's DOHC engines are unusually boring to me, except that one developed with borrowed engineering for the ZR1 in the 90s.
The fact that is a DOHC Twin Turbo V8 means nothing to me. It could be so pedestrian than no one will take a glance at it.
The 3.6L V6 LF3 in the 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport makes only 420 hp in all it's twin-turbocharged glory. Scaled to a 4.2 liters we're looking at 490hp.
GM's DOHC engines are unusually boring to me, except that one developed with borrowed engineering for the ZR1 in the 90s.
The fact that is a DOHC Twin Turbo V8 means nothing to me. It could be so pedestrian than no one will take a glance at it.
If you want to play the scale game, that should put the 4.2L at 565hp.
This engine will probably make 500+hp fairly easily and in Corvette tune, be pretty fun while doing it. Mercedes, Audi, BMW, and Porsche all have twin-turbo 4.0L V8's making similar power and making some seriously strong numbers.
Last edited by Kappa; 08-19-2016 at 09:00 PM.
08-19-2016, 09:06 PM
#17
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Just the engine that was expected for the next gen Vette.
Like it or not, the SC has to go.
It can't compete with a turbo on fuel economy.
How long a NA will still be available in a Corvette is anyone's guess at this point.
I wasn't too worried about GM dropping V8s from the powertrain lineup as it would certainly have caused a lot of gnashing of teeth.
Like it or not, the SC has to go.
It can't compete with a turbo on fuel economy.
How long a NA will still be available in a Corvette is anyone's guess at this point.
I wasn't too worried about GM dropping V8s from the powertrain lineup as it would certainly have caused a lot of gnashing of teeth.
But there are other means of driving the turbine. It may be more effective to use electrical power to drive the turbine than either the crankshaft or waste exhaust heat. That way you can get much more pressure at low rpms than either of the other two. More pressure at lower rpms will increase engine effficiency right in the area where it needs to be increased.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 08-19-2016 at 09:10 PM.
08-19-2016, 09:31 PM
#18
And I can show you a 4 cylinder Honda that can be boosted to over 50% more on a stock block. Once you go boost, max power output doesn't prove a thing. The best comparison is still the DOHC twin turbo V6 released by Cadillac just two years ago.
Can you really compare GM DOHC head flow with Ferrari DOHC head flow? Is GM's engine validation as lax as Ricardo's? Would Corvette buyers tolerate the amount of turbo lag in a 3.8 V8 of that output when they've driven almost exclusively lag free small blocks for 60+ years? I venture that GM doesn't have a proper cure for turbo lag yet that they can bring to market. The Caddy V6 is a low output/liter engine using small turbos and mid size pipe runs. What happens when you scale that up only 20% but want nearly 200% output? Turbos get bigger and runs get larger, and lag suffers.
08-19-2016, 09:38 PM
#19
Safety Car
Although I know some, I won't pretend I'm an expert on turbos.
What I do know is the latest hi-tech turbo powerplants are as close to lag-free as we have ever been.
For example, some journalists who have driven the Ferrari have written it, for all intents and purposes, acts like an NA.
There is no question GM (and everyone else) is continuing to develop their turbo engines.
I am certain their next product will be superior to the 2 year old Caddy.
FWIW, next time I go to Vegas I'll be driving the Ferrari and the McLaren here:
http://www.exoticsracing.com/
What I do know is the latest hi-tech turbo powerplants are as close to lag-free as we have ever been.
For example, some journalists who have driven the Ferrari have written it, for all intents and purposes, acts like an NA.
There is no question GM (and everyone else) is continuing to develop their turbo engines.
I am certain their next product will be superior to the 2 year old Caddy.
FWIW, next time I go to Vegas I'll be driving the Ferrari and the McLaren here:
http://www.exoticsracing.com/
Also take a look at Eaton's comparison of turbo and TVS response rate here:
http://www.terminator-cobra.com/Eato...erchargers.pdf
At low rpm it takes the 911 6 times longer to achieve the same boost.
Good deal on the Vegas exotics, I plan on driving them all next year. They are also in Los Angeles now.
You must forget that the CT6's LGW 3.0L makes 404hp.
If you want to play the scale game, that should put the 4.2L at 565hp.
This engine will probably make 500+hp fairly easily and in Corvette tune, be pretty fun while doing it. Mercedes, Audi, BMW, and Porsche all have twin-turbo 4.0L V8's making similar power and making some seriously strong numbers.
If you want to play the scale game, that should put the 4.2L at 565hp.
This engine will probably make 500+hp fairly easily and in Corvette tune, be pretty fun while doing it. Mercedes, Audi, BMW, and Porsche all have twin-turbo 4.0L V8's making similar power and making some seriously strong numbers.
As far as I know none of the German V8s make 650hp yet.
Last edited by SBC_and_a_stick; 08-19-2016 at 09:39 PM.
08-19-2016, 09:55 PM
#20
Good deal on the Vegas exotics, I plan on driving them all next year. They are also in Los Angeles now.
Fine 565hp. Let's add 10hp to account for a bit more power with a loud Corvette sports exhaust. How many folks will get their checkbook out to pay for 75hp loss going into a C8? At least if it wasn't forced induction to save weight.
As far as I know none of the German V8s make 650hp yet.
Fine 565hp. Let's add 10hp to account for a bit more power with a loud Corvette sports exhaust. How many folks will get their checkbook out to pay for 75hp loss going into a C8? At least if it wasn't forced induction to save weight.
As far as I know none of the German V8s make 650hp yet.