Will Not Crank
10-23-2016, 01:24 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
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Will Not Crank
Having and issue with my 99. Car will not crank. I pulled the codes and nothing shows up. I started doing some T/S and installed a fuel pressure gauge at the fuel rail. When the key is turn to on, Pump does on and Pressure will come up but start bleeding down immediately. It has a quarter of a tank of gas.
10-23-2016, 01:41 AM
#2
Team Owner
What do you mean by won't crank. Do you mean it won't turn over as in starter does not do anything, or that it won't start? With you talking about fuel pressure, I'm not sure I know which you mean.
If you mean the engine doesn't turn over, that is a fairly short diagnostic. I'll have to wait till tomorrow to get you service manual pages, but you can probably search for them here too, or in C5 Tech.
If you mean the engine doesn't turn over, that is a fairly short diagnostic. I'll have to wait till tomorrow to get you service manual pages, but you can probably search for them here too, or in C5 Tech.
10-23-2016, 12:19 PM
#3
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If the engine will not crank as in the starter is not engaged then having or not having fuel pressure is meaningless with respect to the engine not cranking......... If you mean the engine does crank but will start and run, then clarify which condition you actually have..
Many possible causes for a NO CRANK condition. To narrow some of those down we need to know if the car is an automatic or manual trans.
Problem can be the neutral safety switch on an automatic or the clutch pedal switch or the Theft Deterrent Relay on either auto or manual or the starter solenoid on either as well. Could also be an ignition switch issue or even a blown fuse #14 or #50 or #52 in the IP fuse box.
Do you have and know how to use a digital multi meter? I can post a wiring diagram for the start circuitry on a C5 if you know how to shoot electrical issues using the DMM.
If the engine does crank but will not start and run then the problem is either lack of fuel or spark or possibly BOTH.
Many possible causes for a NO CRANK condition. To narrow some of those down we need to know if the car is an automatic or manual trans.
Problem can be the neutral safety switch on an automatic or the clutch pedal switch or the Theft Deterrent Relay on either auto or manual or the starter solenoid on either as well. Could also be an ignition switch issue or even a blown fuse #14 or #50 or #52 in the IP fuse box.
Do you have and know how to use a digital multi meter? I can post a wiring diagram for the start circuitry on a C5 if you know how to shoot electrical issues using the DMM.
If the engine does crank but will not start and run then the problem is either lack of fuel or spark or possibly BOTH.
Follow his advice ^ ^ ^
10-23-2016, 01:02 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
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If the engine will not crank as in the starter is not engaged then having or not having fuel pressure is meaningless with respect to the engine not cranking......... If you mean the engine does crank but will start and run, then clarify which condition you actually have..
Many possible causes for a NO CRANK condition. To narrow some of those down we need to know if the car is an automatic or manual trans.
Problem can be the neutral safety switch on an automatic or the clutch pedal switch or the Theft Deterrent Relay on either auto or manual or the starter solenoid on either as well. Could also be an ignition switch issue or even a blown fuse #14 or #50 or #52 in the IP fuse box.
Do you have and know how to use a digital multi meter? I can post a wiring diagram for the start circuitry on a C5 if you know how to shoot electrical issues using the DMM.
If the engine does crank but will not start and run then the problem is either lack of fuel or spark or possibly BOTH.
Many possible causes for a NO CRANK condition. To narrow some of those down we need to know if the car is an automatic or manual trans.
Problem can be the neutral safety switch on an automatic or the clutch pedal switch or the Theft Deterrent Relay on either auto or manual or the starter solenoid on either as well. Could also be an ignition switch issue or even a blown fuse #14 or #50 or #52 in the IP fuse box.
Do you have and know how to use a digital multi meter? I can post a wiring diagram for the start circuitry on a C5 if you know how to shoot electrical issues using the DMM.
If the engine does crank but will not start and run then the problem is either lack of fuel or spark or possibly BOTH.
OK, I screw it up. it was late. I meant would not start. I had a similar issue two years ago that turned out to be a bad fuel pump, that drove me to install a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail. When I turn the key on the normal 10 second fuel pump run up to pressurize the fuel system is normal. However, as soon as the pump stops running the pressure bleed completely off as if there was a leak. I have checked the fuel routing and no leaks that are going external are indicated. I've tried to start the engine before the pressure completely drops to zero but it won't start. A dual problem won't surprise me. With this said. The car started and ran great two hours prior . I know the old saying. "it work until it doesn't"
I have a full charge on the battery and a quarter tank of gas in the tank.
10-23-2016, 04:24 PM
#5
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So your symptom is the engine WILL crank but it will not start and run, is that correct??
I would add some fuel to the tank. Perhaps the jet siphone pump is not working and you have fuel in the passenger tank but not in the drivers side tank. Normal operation of the C5 fuel system is that fuel is fed to the engine from the pump in the drivers tank and at the same time a small stream of fuel is fed to the jet siphone pump in the passenger tank. This causes fuel from the passenger tank to be transferred to the drivers side tank so effectively the passenger tank empties first. If the jet siphone pump is plugged then the passenger tank fuel is never moved to the drivers side tank. So, it is completely possible to have the car run out of fuel to supply the engine but still have unuseable fuel in the passenger tank.
Beyond that there is an anti bleed back device in the fuel line near the tank on the early year cars. Those do on occasion go bad. Without fuel pressure to operate the injectors the engine will crank but not start and run.
I would add some fuel to the tank. Perhaps the jet siphone pump is not working and you have fuel in the passenger tank but not in the drivers side tank. Normal operation of the C5 fuel system is that fuel is fed to the engine from the pump in the drivers tank and at the same time a small stream of fuel is fed to the jet siphone pump in the passenger tank. This causes fuel from the passenger tank to be transferred to the drivers side tank so effectively the passenger tank empties first. If the jet siphone pump is plugged then the passenger tank fuel is never moved to the drivers side tank. So, it is completely possible to have the car run out of fuel to supply the engine but still have unuseable fuel in the passenger tank.
Beyond that there is an anti bleed back device in the fuel line near the tank on the early year cars. Those do on occasion go bad. Without fuel pressure to operate the injectors the engine will crank but not start and run.
[B]So your symptom is the engine WILL crank but it will not start and run, is that correct? Yes!
I added 10 gallons of additional fuel, same thing no start. The check valve was the first thing I replaced two years ago when it was a bad pump. Doesn't mean that it's not bad. I need to check it!
Ran DIC Codes again and I'm now getting a Crank possition sensor code.
Last edited by Dale002; 10-23-2016 at 04:25 PM.
10-23-2016, 05:52 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
A few years ago I had similar problem with car not starting found fuel pressure was below correct pressure . Replaced fuel pump relay in fuse box in engine compartment and solved my problem. With bad relay pump was coming on just not holding correct pressure. Hope this helps.
10-23-2016, 07:13 PM
#7
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The crank position sensor is on the block above/behind the starter. It might cause a no start but not certain as I have not had personal experience with such a failure. But it is not related to the fuel pressure quickly dropping back after the pump initially brings it up. Likely 2 separate issues going on.
I still have the position sensor issue. P0335 and P0336.
I looked in the service manual and seen it has three wires going from the ECM to the Crank sensor..
R44,B22 and B62 on the ECM. Ran continuity check from the pins on the ECM to the crank sensor connector and it checked out ok. I did find a splice repair on Pin R44. The wire is solder together about an inch out of the ecm connector. Is there a way to check the Crank sensor? I have removed it from the engine
Last edited by Dale002; 10-23-2016 at 07:14 PM.
10-23-2016, 10:15 PM
#8
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Sounds like you have the service manual for your year C5. If so then there is a diagnostic chart associated with each of the codes you are experiencing. They offer some insight on how to diagnose the codes including the crank position sensor. If you do not have those diagnostic charts, I can post the ones from my manual. Mine is for an 04 but I suspect that the operation of the crank position sensor is the same for all years.....
Nice diagnosis of the check valve failure.
Nice diagnosis of the check valve failure.
10-24-2016, 10:31 PM
#9
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Ok, I did the T/S for code P0335 and it indicates a bad crank sensor.
I also noticed the crank sensor has no magnetic pull at all compare to some
others that I have played with.
I thought I had this fixed but, After replacing the crank sensor,The engine seem to want to start but sound like is out timing and back firing. I followed the service manual t/s guide for code P0335 and now P0336, it all checks out and points to the crank sensor. Could the new Crack sensor be bad?
One thing I did check on the new one was to see if it had any magnetic pull. It does, compare to the old one which has none. Not sure what the means.
I'm suspecting a bad connector. Because when I use on the connector the fuel pump comes on. Not when I jiggle the wires but the connector while connected to the sensor.
I also noticed the crank sensor has no magnetic pull at all compare to some
others that I have played with.
I thought I had this fixed but, After replacing the crank sensor,The engine seem to want to start but sound like is out timing and back firing. I followed the service manual t/s guide for code P0335 and now P0336, it all checks out and points to the crank sensor. Could the new Crack sensor be bad?
One thing I did check on the new one was to see if it had any magnetic pull. It does, compare to the old one which has none. Not sure what the means.
I'm suspecting a bad connector. Because when I use on the connector the fuel pump comes on. Not when I jiggle the wires but the connector while connected to the sensor.
Last edited by Dale002; 10-29-2016 at 11:12 AM.
10-29-2016, 07:24 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
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Well, I spent a few hours today on this issue and finally got to the problem. The power feed wire into the crank sensor was corroded at the pin. Hanging on to the pin terminal crimp by a few strands. When I would do my T/S check it would check out ok but, as I said in my previous post it would check out and point to the sensor. However, with connector installed on sensor and I would press on the connector it would loose power turning the pump on. Same thing that is being accomplished during the T/S by grounding the feed wire with the signal wire. Since only one wire was corroded,I when and replace that wire pin and reassemble. Working as it suppose to. It makes you wonder how something could be alright two hours earlier and then two issues appearing. That 2010 GS is looking better and better!
Last edited by Dale002; 10-29-2016 at 07:25 PM.