Ryan Menzies

Evening all,


I have ordered a cylinder head/intake kit from the U.S. for my "core" 454.
First off I've been super busy building my new garage/shop and that has left me literally no time to concentrate on the car. I've had a new Steeroids kit here for months and it sits in the box. I have a new Maxx-Jaxx (SP) hoist still wrapped up on the floor....anyways, you get my drift.

The heads are ProComp, Aluminum with a Shooter series single plane manifold.

Heads are:
119 CC
2.25 intake and 1.88 exhaust valves
Intake flow is 320 CC
Max lift is .550" with dual springs.
3/8" guide plates
Rectangle intake and exhaust ports.
Roller tip rockers (These heads apparently are designed for Hyd flat tappet)

My car is a 72 454 4 spd with 3.08 gears. Daily driver with some aggression here and there. Car purchased with a 327 in it, hence the desire to install a 454 back into it.

It looks like after a few drinks and Ebay......I will be building an engine around the heads that were magically purchased.

My issues:
- I don't want a single plane 6.060" tall manifold due to the fact I don't believe it will fit under the hood and I want some lower rpm drive-ability from a dual plane. So I'll need to find a dual plane rectangle port intake. Suggestions ? (I have not chosen a carb yet)

-I'll need some long tube rectangle port headers unless Oval port headers will accommodate the rectangle port heads. Suggestions ?

-Camshaft choice ? I Don't have a problem with any idle characteristics but I also don't need to be at 6500 rpm all day long to get the benefits of the camshaft.

Now, the block is std bore and stock cast pistons. The short block will be going to the machine shop (781 heads will sit on my bench I guess)
and will be bored to a yet to be determined size and piston choice.
I'd like to sit at 9.5:1 CR so I can run pump gas.

My feeling is that I've purchased heads that are too "Big" for what I really need but want to be able to use them regardless. Even the 80-100 lb weight savings with heads and intake along with cooling is good for my liking.

As always, your suggestions and criticism (Probably the ProComp heads) are always of value to me. But before flaming me, shipping to Canada and a 35% exchange rate really make it hard to go all out especially after the new shop build last month.
I'll post some pics of the new shop, the Steeroids swap and the hoist with the car when I can get everything finished up in the next month.

Cheers all,

ddawson

Talk to Chris Straub on a cam recommendation.

I went with a 496 stroker, 229/235 .590/.559 LSA 107 Roller conversion,

Edelbrock 290CC/110CC, 2.19 intake 1.88 exhaust. Milled to 103CC
These are Roval heads.

BBC LS6 intake with heat shield and 1/2" 4 hole spacer. QuickFuel 830 carburetor.

Hedman headers, I think all headers are round.

Idles great at 850 and has no issue at 6500 RPM but you feel the power dropping off at about 5500. It made 420HP and 510TQ at the wheels.

71454Chevelle

IMO, those heads are too large for a 454 and what you are wanting to do. A "daily driver" with 3.08 gears needs an oval port head. Much better low and mid range torque with a good oval port head over a rect port head, which is where your engine will be most of the time as a "daily driver". Actually the 781 oem heads you have with larger valves, some bowl blending and the correct valve job will be a much better match for your combo than the Pro Comps. If it were me, I'd sell the heads and look into a set of AFR 265 ovals or Brodix oval port RaceRites. Heck, for less money than those re-do the 781's like I mentioned.

Dont have a Vette, but I know you guys are very limited on intake manifold height, and it would be wise to not use the single plane. A dual plane is your best bet, but I'm not sure what all fits under a 72 Vette hood.

Pop Chevy

Yea the heads are a little big , but I would look at an Edelbrock RPM intake to get some street manners. Do you have a big block hood ?

Ryan Menzies

I figured they were a little big but they may be "ok" with a dual plane such as a Performer and a good cam choice.
I don't want to re-buy another set like AFR and certainly don't want to go to the cast 781 which I have. Not that they wouldn't be adequate for what I'm needing in a sense but having them reworked for bigger valves and such is just----a lot of work and expense and I'm still sitting with cast iron heads.

Yes, it's the original hood and the car originally came with the LS-5.

71454Chevelle

Nothing wrong with cast iron heads when setup properly. Go over to Team Chevelle and search VortecPro (Mark Jones) and look at the results he gets with oem oval port heads.


http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/

http://www.vortecpro454.com/#xl_xr_page_engines

Ryan Menzies

Chevelle,

I'm certainly not complaining about 781 cast iron heads as I've read/researched enough to know that they are a good head with some work, for my application. Agreed �. However I'd like to shed all that extra weight and not have that big heat sink. Anything extra to help a BB C3 cool is an asset.
Also I've already bought the heads and maybe I'm having a hard time getting my head around it as well. I could possibly end up selling them up here which was suggested before but I really would like to find a suitable work-around.

Cheers

71454Chevelle

Ryan,
You can probably make them work ok with the right intake and cam, I was just thinking for what you are trying to do, an oval would work much better. I understand you already have them, I've been down the road many times of "making due with what I had" or doing something on a tight budget, inevitably in the long run I usually ended up doing it the way I should have in the first place, spending twice as much money in the process. Just trying to help you out.

cv67

Esp w/a 308 gear low compression a 320cc head way too big
Ebay while they are new

Did the same justification you are no matter what I did to that car it never made the beans I hoped it would heads were just too big....technically almost too big for the stroker they are on now.
Some good stuff out today used to be bigger was the only way not so much anymore. Dont cheat yourself

Ryan Menzies

Hmmm.... this is why I'm posting here-for the advise from people who know more about this than I. It's been a couple of decades since I played in this area and ALOT has changed I see as mentioned above.
Looks like I'll lean to sell the heads and certainly the single plane air gap. Then I'll look at some other options.
There's no way I want to run 10:5 or 11:1 or anywhere near 7000 RPM. Nor will I change over to 4:11's etc just because I have these heads.

Thanks for the wisdom fellas-it's appreciated ��

427Hotrod

I'd invest in a 4.250" crank...even a cast one (not my first choice for sure)...some long rods and some forged pistons. Some folks will recommend a Hyper piston...but I never will for a toy like this. I'd rather build a strong shortblock and never worry about it. The whole point is to make mroe power and it needs to be able to handle it.

The added cubes will really help deal with the heads and 3.08's.


Don't be afraid of 10.5 compression at all with the aluminum heads. Set deck height tight and all will be fine. My 555" ran 11.56/1 on 93 0ctane all day at the track and on the street with no issue. Had more cam than you will likely use....but 10.5 is nothing to worry about.

JIM

Ryan Menzies

Well this has peaked my interest.....

roscobbc

My '68 uses a +.030" 4.25" stroker on a 4 bolt 454 block. Using Brodix Race Rite heads and relatively mild flat tappet hydraulic cam with Edelbrock Air Gap dual plane it makes an easy 570 hp @ 5800 rpm and more importantly 606 ft/lbs tq @ 3800 rpm. The M21 and 3.08 rear end works perfectly for me (and would run a lower numerical ratio comfortably)

Pop Chevy

427 is right. If you increase stroke (CI) then your heads would be fine. However if you want to sell em let me know, I've got a 540 to build.

Jebbysan

I just read that the heads are set up for .550 lift in your OP.
That is very limiting.......a head like that needs much more stroke and lift to work the intake port......
The advice above about oval port heads is good advice......send the heads back.
The Straub cam mentioned is about on the money for the street......
I recently purchased the GM high rise dual plane and it is an excellent piece......it is a high rise but it would fit under a L-88 hood.....

Jebby

Jebbysan

As an addition.....I recently was sourcing parts for my 82' C20 454......I looked at the budget heads and they really do not add up.......I could source some early large oval ports and make as much or more power for less money......
It is really tough to beat the GM oval port head when cleaned up.....

As far as the ultimate street head IMHO....the Brodix CNC race oval is it.......I have made 1.7 horsepower per cubic inch with these in a race application and 1.4 on the street........but priced in the mid 3's is a tough nut to swallow.....

Jebby

Ryan Menzies

Ok just to refocus a bit here even though everyone's comments are valued:
-- I can't run a highrise as I have a stock 1972 LS-5 hood since the car is an LS-5 BB car.
-- I can't sell them back to anyone in the U.S. because of the FX and shipping. However I can sell them in Canada and won't lose anything.
-- Not looking for a strip car performance. I know I have bought heads too big for what I want and won't spend a ton of money for extra HP when it's not needed for my application. I just want less weight, better heat distribution and good overall
--Some of the suggested heads I'm seeing posted will put me at 4K in Canada by the time I get them.

I think I'll sit and ponder for a few days and make a decision.

Thanks all.
--

StraubTech

The set of 781's with a hydraulic roller would have given you a very nice power package. The heads ordered paired with the gearing will make this thing a dog.

Most cost effective way.
850HP Carb
Eddy Air gap
Prepped set of 781s set up for 10 to 1
Hyd Roller cam and lifters
Double roller timing set
500HP/550#/ft

69ttop502

Listen to this man! Check out his feedback and builds, mostly on Chevelles and other sites. And get a cam from him when you get your heads figured out. You will be a very happy customer!

gkull

he has a 4 speed, so 3.08 is nothing with the amount of TQ a 454 makes when combined with a roller cam

I just did a 4 speed with a 468 ci and the clients rectangular port heads. I did go with 10.48 c/r because of the iron heads. The M-21 tranny with 2.20 first gear kind of sucks. I'm used to my TKO 600 and 2.87 first. But once you are rolling these nearly 600 hp and 600 TQ are fun to drive. Once I was in 4th gear I was always wanting to shift again into 5th with a 3.08 rear. My 4 speed 67 Camaro came with a 2.73 rear. I only had a hot rodded 355 ci. I drove it for many years

People with auto trannies don't have a clue to on what is required for a manual tranny. A TH400 burns up a lot of HP