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Update: My warranty claim was denied by GM because they couldn't replicate the problem under normal driving conditions.
The advisor said that if more people complain about this issue it will be revisited. Please contact Tony Gerbasi at 866 446-6963 x5911544, or anthony.gerbasi@gm.com
I will keep you guys updated if it progresses.
I picked up my 2015 Z06, #973, in December '14. It's my first Corvette, Chevrolet, and American car, and overall I absolutely love it. It's my daily driver and HPDE weekend beast. I've said before on Corvette forum that you and your team deserve high praise for what you produced, and addressing customer issues and questions thoughtfully and directly via "Ask Tadge". I'm hoping you can help with a problem that has been surfaced by forum members.
The Issue
Many customers are reporting brake fluid leaking out of the bleed screws during track events, which may be evidence of a faulty component or design flaw. This year I've had two events where my front brake system failed while on track. Another member, JDMDOHCPOWER, has recently experienced a similar failure as well.
The brake fluid appears to being pushed out from the outer bleed screw, which introduces air into the system causing the fluid to boil, and the brakes to go away quickly. The inner screw and caliper seem to be largely unaffected and stay clean.
Here are the possible causes that have been suggested:
A) Over torquing the bleeder screw (mine was bled/flushed by the dealer)
B) OEM screw not seating into the Brembo caliper properly (a manufacturing or design flaw)
C) Is it possible that the adjoining metals at the bleed screw are expanding at different rates under high temperature and therefore creating a space for fluid to leak and air to enter?
My Request:
Since this is only able to be reproduced under track conditions, the dealers aren't able to diagnose or fix it. Can someone from your engineering team help by investigating the issue, diagnosing the problem and coming up with a resolution.
I've included photos and video from both of my incidents if it helps. Please let me know if I can assist in any other way.
Good question. My guess it may need to be reformatted. It will get my vote regardless.
i believe the focus should be on getting Brembo the provider for these brake systems to investigate the Issue that many had experienced with Z07 CCB and brakes fluid leaking from the bleed valve at the track. My understanding is that dealers can't fix the problem because they cannot replicate / test under track conditions. The concern is not the warranty, it's bigger than that. Corvette engineering / Brembo needs to investigate the issue and provide some direction or solution in how to handle this problem. We just need to bring it to their attention.
Good question. My guess it may need to be reformatted. It will get my vote regardless.
i believe the focus should be on getting Brembo the provider for these brake systems to investigate the Issue that many had experienced with Z07 CCB and brakes fluid leaking from the bleed valve at the track. My understanding is that dealers can't fix the problem because they cannot replicate / test under track conditions. The concern is not the warranty, it's bigger than that. Corvette engineering / Brembo needs to investigate the issue and provide some direction or solution in how to handle this problem. We just need to bring it to their attention.
Agree, but warranty for track incidents is critical to solving this problem wherever it lies. If they don't warranty track failures, then dealer has no incentive to escalate the issue any higher. They can just say. Sorry, works as intended on the street, which is what we are getting now.
If you can think how how I should edit it, please let me know. We need to get this issue resolved, and the resolution shouldn't be buying an aftermarket brake kit.
I've had two incidents where my front calipers failed while on track at over 120 and 140mph, one resulting in an off track incident.
I'm no attorney, but I'd guess the fact that you opened this by implying a mechanical failure of a GM part caused an accident (or incident) makes this question completely untouchable by Tadge or anyone else at GM.
If I were him, I'd just skip to the next question to avoid the "liability bomb" of talking about a factory car's brake failure at speed. Reduce it to a high-temp leak question without trying to hang whatever happened to you at the track on it (which seems kind of transparent, even if true, sorry) and maybe you've got a shot. I'd also include some information to distinguish your situation from merely boiling the brake fluid, which is "owner's fault" if the fluid's not new and being asked to perform at the track. If you think the brakes went to the floor because of a high-temp track-only leak, you should assert (if true) that the fluid was indeed GONE after the track session, not just boiled during it.
Agree, but warranty for track incidents is critical to solving this problem wherever it lies. If they don't warranty track failures, then dealer has no incentive to escalate the issue any higher. They can just say. Sorry, works as intended on the street, which is what we are getting now.
If you can think how how I should edit it, please let me know. We need to get this issue resolved, and the resolution shouldn't be buying an aftermarket brake kit.
Tadge / GM confirmed that taking the car to the track will not void warranty. Any component that fails during the warranty period will be replaced given that the car was not modified in a manner that would put stress on the component that had failed. Any dealer that tells you that they can't warranty a component because the car was tracked basically don't know what they are talking about.
I have the some concern because I will start tracking my 2017 Z07 soon after the break in period. I would basically state the problem and ask for investigation / solution. Basically state that this above the dealer service department which is true.
I've had two incidents where my front calipers failed while on track at over 120 and 140mph, one resulting in an off track incident. Another member that I know has experienced a similar failure as well. Many others have indicated leaking outside bleed screws that I believe are evidence of a faulty system.
In both cases, I had very little warning of the impending failure. The pedal suddenly went to the floor, and I was unable to build up pressure by pumping.
The symptoms seem to only present themselves when using the car under track conditions. Fluid is pushed out from the outer bleed screw, which in turn allows air into the system. The inner screw and caliper are largely unaffected.
This indicates an issue with either:
A) Over tightening the screw (mine were done at the dealer)
B) the screw not seating into the caliper properly (a manufacturing issue)
or
C) there is a significant difference in the expansion rates of the two different metals above a certain temp, creating a space around the screw for fluid and air to go in and out.
Myself and the owner with the other known failure owner are currently being denied warranty coverage for an on track event. This seems contradictory to what the owners manual and warranty manual state.
I've lost all confidence in using my Z06 at the track until I can get a confirmation from GM that this issue is resolved.
My two asks:
Can someone on your engineering team look at the above cases to help diagnose the problem and come up with a solution.
Can you confirm that the warranty does cover on track incidents.
Thank you for designing a world-class car at an affordable price!! Would you please discuss what went into the engineering of the Brembo brake calipers on the C7 Z06? Some users are reporting brake fluid leaking on the outside bleed screws during track events, which introduces air into the system. If we assume the screw is torqued to the right spec, and the screw is seated to the caliper properly, could there be some other reason that this is occurring? Is it possible that the adjoining metals at the bleed screw are expanding at different rates under high temperature and therefore creating a space for fluid to leak and air to enter?
Thank you for designing a world-class car at an affordable price!! Would you please discuss what went into the engineering of the Brembo brake calipers on the C7 Z06? Some users are reporting brake fluid leaking on the outside bleed screws during track events, which introduces air into the system. If we assume the screw is torqued to the right spec, and the screw is seated to the caliper properly, could there be some other reason that this is occurring? Is it possible that the adjoining metals at the bleed screw are expanding at different rates under high temperature and therefore creating a space for fluid to leak and air to enter?
Thank you in advance for your response,
Respectfully,
........
I believe the problem is unique to CCM (Z07) but other than that...excellent choice of words
This has my vote as it not only ruins an HPDE weekend, but can also lead to a very serious safety issue.
All four of my outer bleed adapters leak; F>R, and my local dealer who works on my car has not been allowed to diagnose/treat this issue from GM corporate.
I have done nothing to cause this issue, it is simply something inherently faulty in the design of the Brembo caliper and/or bleeders.
It appears to be worse on the CCB equipped cars, my 2015 is a Z07 optioned car btw, hence my suspicion that it is caused by heat being transferred to the caliper and bleed adapter and those components not expanding at the same rate. That being said it also apparently occurs on the non-CCB cars also.
It simply does not matter that this can't be re-created on the street by a dealership, since it only happens on a road course during an HPDE when the car is driven by experienced drivers, using the car for what it was designed for. We, the owners/drivers of this car have to be helped and believed by GM.
GM can easily bring this issue to Brembo's attention, and surely between both engineering departments an easy cure for this can be found. Personally I believe that the bleed adapters simply need to be manufactured from a different metal.
I was able to get one caliper warrantied and they would not warranty the other caliper (because i was tracking the car) and they said they tightened the bleeder to spec (BS!)
i ended up using teflon tape and tightening everything down myself, and i have had 0 issues since.
I even converted to z06 brakes....teflon taped all the bleeders...0 issues.
Update: My warranty claim was denied by GM because they couldn't replicate the problem under normal driving conditions.
The advisor said that if more people complain about this issue it will be revisited. Please contact Tony Gerbasi at 866 446-6963 x5911544, or anthony.gerbasi@gm.com
In turn 10! I have seen that gravel once or twice, not from brake failure but from trying to enter the corner at 85+. This was in a Miata not a Corvette. I was finding gravel in the chassis years later.
11-16-2016, 10:04 AM
[ASKED] Track day brake failures and warranty
