When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
2000 LS1 MN6, 30kmi, cammed (228r @ 0.588 @ 112 with supporting mods), Accusump. Probably only have 5kmi (4 years) since the cam swap and 9 track days (~18 hours). The particles are magnetic. The engine runs smooth and quiet. Never overheated or lost oil pressure (I log oil pressure when on the track).
Any guesses?
Cam / Lifter
Timing Chain / Gear / Oil Pump
Trunnions
Junk from inside the pushrods (I didn't clean other than soak in oil)
I doubt its the trunnions since that would probably create more powder than speckles / flecks. Guess I need to pull the valve covers and look for clues. I could also measure lift from each lobe at the rocker.
If I don't see anything under the covers should I pull the heads (easier than pulling the cam just to look) or just drive it until its toast?
First photo show the larger flecks.
Second photo shows a typical section of the filter (one of the large flecks is visible on the 2nd pleat from the right)
How is oil pressure? Those are rather large to pass through the oil pump. Is there any shape to the pieces, i.e., round, flat, etc? Can't tell if they are shaved off of something or if they are part of a small piece like a valve seal spring. Using any oil, especially on start-up? Did you do the trunnion kit? There have been a lot of issues recently with those who installed the trunnion kits and breakdown of the parts.
Magnetic drain plug only showed slightly more magnetic sludge than normal with no visible chunks. Had I known what was in the filter, I would have collected the sludge in a paper towel to closely sift through it.
No oil pressure issues at all when on the street or HPDE. I use the accusump to pre-oil before cold starts. I do use a little more oil when on the track than I used to and see some oil mist collecting on the back end of the car. But thats only on the track and never on the street. I was thinking it could be due to the high rpm and closed throttle seen on the track. I had planned to see if a valve seal had come loose. I also run two PCV catch cans and haven't seen any change in the amount of oil collected. I'm using Mob1 High Mileage (higher zinc/phos). With the sump and 1 qt overfill for the track, its holding about 10qts of oil.
In all the photos I've seen of the trunnion wear, its always looked like abrasion and not flaking.
The larger pieces do have a slight curvature but probably a larger radius than valve seal spring wire. Looks like a shaving. I'll try taking some photos of the slivers next week on a digital 3D microscope. Maybe it will show the surface finish and let me estimate the radius.
The only thing that feels different about the car is the engine idle shake from the cam overlap seems less than I remember after first installing. I just chalked that up to getting used to it.
[QUOTE=Rx7Rob;1593525439]Magnetic drain plug only showed slightly more magnetic sludge than normal with no visible chunks. Had I known what was in the filter, I would have collected the sludge in a paper towel to closely sift through it.
No oil pressure issues at all when on the street or HPDE. I use the accusump to pre-oil before cold starts. I do use a little more oil when on the track than I used to and see some oil mist collecting on the back end of the car. But thats only on the track and never on the street. I was thinking it could be due to the high rpm and closed throttle seen on the track. I had planned to see if a valve seal had come loose. I also run two PCV catch cans and haven't seen any change in the amount of oil collected. I'm using Mob1 High Mileage (higher zinc/phos). With the sump and 1 qt overfill for the track, its holding about 10qts of oil.
In all the photos I've seen of the trunnion wear, its always looked like abrasion and not flaking.
The larger pieces do have a slight curvature but probably a larger radius than valve seal spring wire. Looks like a shaving. I'll try taking some photos of the slivers next week on a digital 3D microscope. Maybe it will show the surface finish and let me estimate the radius.
The only thing that feels different about the car is the engine idle shake from the cam overlap seems less than I remember after first installing. I just chalked that up to getting used to
Last edited by 02general; 11-23-2016 at 05:22 PM.
Reason: Didn't want to quote
Sorry didn't mean to do hit the quote. I found this in my oil filter. Engine is a ls6 with 96000 miles. The metal flakes are not magnetic which makes me believe it's bearing material. Engine has good oil pressure and runs great.
Originally Posted by Rx7Rob
Magnetic drain plug only showed slightly more magnetic sludge than normal with no visible chunks. Had I known what was in the filter, I would have collected the sludge in a paper towel to closely sift through it.
No oil pressure issues at all when on the street or HPDE. I use the accusump to pre-oil before cold starts. I do use a little more oil when on the track than I used to and see some oil mist collecting on the back end of the car. But thats only on the track and never on the street. I was thinking it could be due to the high rpm and closed throttle seen on the track. I had planned to see if a valve seal had come loose. I also run two PCV catch cans and haven't seen any change in the amount of oil collected. I'm using Mob1 High Mileage (higher zinc/phos). With the sump and 1 qt overfill for the track, its holding about 10qts of oil.
In all the photos I've seen of the trunnion wear, its always looked like abrasion and not flaking.
The larger pieces do have a slight curvature but probably a larger radius than valve seal spring wire. Looks like a shaving. I'll try taking some photos of the slivers next week on a digital 3D microscope. Maybe it will show the surface finish and let me estimate the radius.
The only thing that feels different about the car is the engine idle shake from the cam overlap seems less than I remember after first installing. I just chalked that up to getting used to
I haven't started it since the change three weeks ago. I was thinking about heating it up since its been three weeks. I'll take your advice and not start it. Supposed to be 60° tomorrow so it may be a good day to pull the valve covers and look around. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it isn't the cam (even though it probably is) and the particles are magically missing anything vital and only damaging the oil pump and accusump before getting filtered out of the oil.
The first time cutting open a filter was after last years oil change. It showed some of the same magnetic material.
I don't really see the oil I'm draining out since it disappears into a large covered drain pan (10 quarts). I only see it as I transfer (usually a very fast pour through a 1.5" diameter spout) into a metal 5 gallon can for storage until I can get to the recycling center. I do remember thinking the oil looked really dirty (dark) and that I waited too long for that change. I should pour it back out of the 5 gal container to an open one and look for bearing material floating on top. Unfortunately, its now mixed with oil drained from the C4 that was changed at the same time.
I just pulled the valve covers. Was spotlessly clean. No metal shavings, no broken springs, everything square and straight. Spark plugs all look brand new!
Guess I'm not surprised that everything looks good as its running quiet with no funny noises.
Tomorrow I'll put together a tool to spin the ARP crank bolt so I can pull the rockers and see if the trunnions feel worn.
If you have the old oil, maybe send it to Blackstone for analysis, sometimes they can analyze the metal & direct you to where it's from, cheap to do b4 you tear stuff apart.
If you have the old oil, maybe send it to Blackstone for analysis, sometimes they can analyze the metal & direct you to where it's from, cheap to do b4 you tear stuff apart.
This is exactly what I am going to do. I have a nasty tapping sound on cold start up that will last a good 5-10 mins then go away. Also had metal shavings on my magnetic drain plug. Just waiting til i hit 3 or 4k miles then sending mine off to Blackstone. I think that would be a good idea for the op.
My oil had just been changed. Would take me several years to get 4k miles on it (I've done 6k miles in the past four years on this car).
Now thinking that I'll pull the heads to look at the cam lobes.
Originally Posted by bwill03z
This is exactly what I am going to do. I have a nasty tapping sound on cold start up that will last a good 5-10 mins then go away. Also had metal shavings on my magnetic drain plug. Just waiting til i hit 3 or 4k miles then sending mine off to Blackstone. I think that would be a good idea for the op.
My oil had just been changed. Would take me several years to get 4k miles on it (I've done 6k miles in the past four years on this car).
Now thinking that I'll pull the heads to look at the cam lobes.
Well the thing is, if there is "something" wearing at an accelerated rate you would not need IMO a lot of miles to see it in the oil, maybe a few hundred?
My oil had just been changed. Would take me several years to get 4k miles on it (I've done 6k miles in the past four years on this car).
Now thinking that I'll pull the heads to look at the cam lobes.
Just a thought. You can see some of the cam lobes through the valley if you pull the intake and valley cover. You can now buy inexpensive endoscopes that plug into a PC, or one like mine that uses bluetooth to communicate with an iPhone or iPad. Mine was around $40 and the pc versions are around $25. This may give you a better idea if the cam is an issue without complete disassembly. If you find something you can go from there. Here is the bluetooth version----> Link
Just a thought. You can see some of the cam lobes through the valley if you pull the intake and valley cover. You can now buy inexpensive endoscopes that plug into a PC, or one like mine that uses bluetooth to communicate with an iPhone or iPad. Mine was around $40 and the pc versions are around $25. This may give you a better idea if the cam is an issue without complete disassembly. If you find something you can go from there. Here is the bluetooth version----> Link
Yup, thought about opening the valley cover. I'll check out your link! Does your camera have a cord that retains the shape you bend it into? I have one (at work) that is on a wire but I'd have to tape it to a coat hanger.
I emailed Blackstone to see if their analysis can differentiate between metal from cam, lifters, timing gears / chain, oil pump, ... I suggested that I could send them my oil filter element containing the metal. I'll see what they say. Damn Froggy I already put my track tires to bed in the warm basement so a couple of hot sessions is out ;-) Your right about it probably not requiring a lot of miles, I did ask Bstone how many to do.
I pulled but didn't disassemble one trunnion. The rocker rolls VERY smooth with no play. I'll pull them all and see how they feel. I really don't want to disassemble / reassemble and take a chance of damaging but I guess its better than pulling the cam or heads and not finding anything either.
I guess my plan of attack will be:
Wait to hear back from Blackstone
Pull all trunnions
Pull valley cover and look at the visible lobes / try endoscope
Pull heads / lifters
Unfortunately, I have to get the car in for emissions testing so I need to put the valve covers back on and make a quick drive for the test.
In the mean time, if the heads come off I'm pretty much decided on some PRC "as cast" 225 heads to replace my 853's. I'll increase the compression and run some large diameter pushrods. Still need to read up on what lifters to use ... but all that will be in another thread.
11-22-2016, 03:28 PM
Metal in Oil Filter
