ajrothm

I hit the track last night to test my car with the Halltech on it. We had a front blow through and brought some insane air with it, right around -1300' DA. Track was slick, first pass was a throw away, second pass was a little better at 10.77@128.43 with a 1.67'.

Best pass of the night: Track mode, TC off, Idle launch



My previous best completely stock was 10.84@127.01 with a 1.66 60' in +432 DA, so this trip was an improvement of .18 and 2 mph. The catch is, where was the gain, from the -800'+ improvement in DA or from the Halltech CAI?? I'm guessing from the DA.



To make it all more interesting, this time I datalogged the car to see what it was actually doing. As you can see from this screen shot with the cursor right passed the traps, IAT was NOT a factor, as it actually DECREASED as I went down the track.


You will also notice a good bit of knock retard right before each shift and a pretty slow decay rate on the KR...with about 2.5* in the traps. On average it was pulling 4.5-5.0* before each shift...(red trend in the middle of the screen)..

Also, notice how long it takes for the throttle position to actually hit 100% open...I was launching at idle, foot to the floor, yet it took almost 2 full seconds to hit 100%TP. That is why these cars are such dogs out of the hole, it takes about a car length before they bring in the power.

I still need to work on my config some and see why the KPA is not going over 120 kpa....Either the factory map does not read positive pressure (which I seriously doubt) or HPT is sampling the wrong sensor/input.

Either way, its pretty interesting info, shift points are all over the map as well. I could see a good 2-3 tenth gain in a proper tune.

That's it for me for the year though, I'm not going back out without drag radials.

So what do you guys think of the gains, or lack thereof?

Needless to say, I was fully expecting a 130-131 mph trap, especially in this miracle air.

0Terry@BMS

Nice traps! Also skeptical of the huge intake gains but seems to work for some. Post the actual log file if you can.

ajrothm

Posted...

Terry, what do you think about the MAP not tracking passed 120KPA? Surely the factory MAP sensor is atleast a 2 bar?

0Terry@BMS

It is, the right parameter for boost is intake manifold absolute pressure. Looks like 3psi ambient pressure. And 17psi under WOT. So you are hitting around 14psi which seems really high for the stock pullies. Must be the cold dense air.

The narrow band sensors for WOT are not super accurate but at .900mv seems a bit lean. Also makes sense based on the air and intake throwing the MAF calibrations off.

On KR there is a static retard in cylinder 1 from 5 degrees down to 3 degrees at 4800rpm, that shows as KR in logs. But looks like you have a bit of legitimate pull. I guess makes sense given the leaner AFR. A little more octane would help.

For IAT the parameter you need is called manifold air temp. It's not on your log. Also don't have IAT retard but given the cold weather doubt its an issue.

ajrothm

Thanks for the info!!

So the IAT2 channel I added to the config, you think that is NOT the correct one for actual IAT2? It looks like its tracking to me but...It was much cooler then I expected, only about12-13* above ambient.

I also saw the absolute manifold pressure reading 17 psi and 3.3 psi at idle, So I thought there is no way that's right. I seriously doubt it went from 9 psi stock to 14 psi with a CAI, even with good air. I could see 11 psi maybe but.... I even doubt that.


Looking at the KR, it looks like it starts midway through the gear, then decays slowly, then starts up again. I was thinking it was KR from the ECT as it was 210*+..

No telling man...I just starting with this stuff and trying to learn. Hell I just went to 3.4 from 2.24 and can barely figure it out...LOL

ACS55

Without drag radials, are you getting a dead hook, or are you slipping?
if you're slipping at all, it's near impossible to measure gains.
You need the following to maximize your combo, from what I've been told (and from what I've experienced):

1:drag radials

• 2:more octane that 93. I run 93 with 32 oz of torco per 10g of fuel.
• 3. Tour mode (IMO) some will argue this, but my car is consistently faster in tour mode.
• 4. You have to cool the car thoroughly, like 45-60 mins between rounds. Coolant temperature should be between 150 and 160 before doing your burn out. This one thing alone will speed the car up at least a 10th.

Try these and then swap your HT CAI on and off, and then I expect you will see a measurable difference, in my rookie opinion.

0Terry@BMS

IAT and ECT have their own timing decay channels you'd have to log. I think KR is just from the KR area but if you open your stock flash file in TunerPro you'll see a built in KR on cyl1 which shows in logs as KR even though it's simply mapped timing pull.

Here is one of my logs from the track last week for you to compare with. I have manifold air temp on there. Was around 160F and got up to 172F I think by the end of the run. Boost was around 15psi with a 2.3" pulley.

rbartick

1.6x 60' is certainly not a dog out of the hole. Maybe the car is doing that to maintain traction. These autos make it look simple to pull off a great run. My M7 is much more violent off the line and with each shift. I haven't seen stock M7 cars get anything even close to 1.6x.

lotti

Nice pass. IMHO the gains were DA related. Basically a 1700 difference in DA and only picking up couple mph and supposedly adding another 40-50 rwhp with intake does not add up to me.

UBNZO6D

I get what you are trying to say here but it sure is not real world...What it does is show what your car CAN do in perfect conditions...I will guess that you do not drive around with drag radials on the car or wait in between street races for your car to cool down, or run the Torco for daily driving and that is assuming you street race...I do street race and I don't do any of what you do as I want real world conditions and as a matter of fact I do not even pop my hood when I go to the drags...To each, their own...Glad you ran well and didn't break.

Greg

ZoratZ06

Amen to that!! I'm happy with 1.8 to 1.9s 60ft times in my stock M7 on stock tires. In order to get into the 10's I'm likely gonna need a 1.7 or better...hopefully I'll find out this winter...but we never get 'insane' DA in Phoenix.

OP, nice runs!! 10.66 is moving...

ACS55

Greg,
i wasn't trying to offend you at all, and if I did.. My apologies.

You are absolutely right, to each their own. I bought my car for drag racing.. And I don't street race at all.

My point was, you can't measure power gains at the drag strip (from CAI, or anything else) if you don't eliminate the other variables that WILL cause your times to fluctuate wildly.
Traction, or loss of it.
Knock retard (due to octane less than high 90's.)
Timing retard from coolant temp running over 194 degrees, and different temps.
Etc.

Have a good evening sir.
Andy

Mopar Jimmy

OP 10.6x and 129 is outstanding all the way around a big CONGRATS that is hauling azz!!

UBNZO6D

No, no, no, not offended in any way...I just explained what I do...I get what you do, I just street race as there is just one track around here and has only about 12 dates a year...

Greg

tail_lights

OP, great run! Thanks for datalogging. I don't understand much of it but I want to learn and everything helps. Terry, thanks for explaining as well!

8850

That's some great times with less than perhaps ideal engine conditions. A tune would probably be in order if you are not concerned about warranty. You can tune out kr. And I would think it could benefit from a couple more degrees of timing advance. 16* isn't very much. I was running 17-18 with more boost than this on my GT500.

One concern I would have is with your coolant temp getting up to 212*. My best time with my 08 Corvette were ran with no more than 180* coolant. You have HP Tuner so use your VCM controls to run you fan during a pass to help keep that coolant down.

Correct me if I'm wrong but with Intake Manifold Pressure Absolute you would have to subtract the barometric pressure from that to get gauge pressure. You are reading 14.4 bp so subtract that from your absolute readings.

ajrothm

The 10.66 was a dead hook pass. Even the 10.77 the tires only turned a couple spins about a car length out when the car actually hit 100% TP.

I ran Sport mode for the 2 first passes and Track mode for the last pass. On both of my track trips, Track mode netted the best ET by .009 and the best MPH by .5. The car shifts noticeably harder in track mode.

I will say shift points are all over the place tho...shifts too high on the early shifts and too low on the later shifts.. Ironically the PDR vid doesn't show it this way but the datalogs damn sure do.


Yes, next time I go out, I'll be on 18" drag radials on replica wheels, probably have a full batch of MS109 in it and wait for another good air night...but I'll likely never catch air like this again. 25 years I've been racing at this track and never seen -1300'.

phantasms

This sadly falls in line with my half baked theory of the CAI not doing much of anything, or even hurting things, in really good air which is why the stock cars on the Fast List are faster than the CAI only cars. I'm saying this as someone who has purchased two Halltech CAIs.

Looking forward to more data.

Nice runs!

Best,
Gene

ajrothm

Yeah who knows man...I'm just diving in to this. One thing I did notice was my second pass was 103.71 in the 1/8 and the last pass was 105.27...so it was 1.5 mph faster in the 1/8, yet was only .5 faster in the 1/4. That means something happened after the 1/8 to lose 1 mph, either a shift point was off or it had more KR...which would be negating any gains from a CAI. It was pulling 3.5-4* timing in the traps, that's easily 20-30hp. The question is why?

I wish I could figure out why the MAP (kpa) didn't track right.

Normally on C5/C6 pcms, the map sensor (assuming it's a 2-3 bar) will read manifold pressure accurately.

Maybe I can talk Higgs into giving me a good config that accurately charts MAP, IAT2, ECT, KR etc...

LowFlight

That's hauling the mail