MickVette

It is functional now time to start tuning all over again! LOL

Typical location:


I was going to use this sensor here:

I decided on this fast acting thermister that I modified instead (Omega 44005):


Checking the calibration:


Finished and functional. Ready to start tuning:


My Helper:

MickVette

I did have to change the AIT sensor curve to match the Resistance/Temperature of the new sensor.

Silver Bullet C6

Good write up. I'll be interested to see your results. I have a H/C/I Z06 (not the one in my avatar) I'd be interested in doing this with also.

MickVette

It will be difficult to give good solid improvement numbers as the previous modifications and tuning have taken the HPTuners Torque readings from 552 to 640+ (at the point of measurement/calculation) maxing out what the chart values will read. I hope to get more g/cyl of air on the chart so that will show the engine performance is improving.

I had to borrow a wide band O2 sensor from our local tuner (Tampa Tuning) as the one I ordered arrived non-functional so tuning will start as holiday season time permits. I have logged more than a 30°F reduction on intake temperature when the methanol turns on. (after sitting and the intake tract becomes heat soaked)

Silver Bullet C6

I would imagine that the cooling effect and not pulling timing will make the meth injection worth it. In Texas heat this would especially be beneficial. I'd be fine with just maintaining the power the car makes, without HP losses due to higher IAT.

MickVette

I hear you loud and clear with controlling the AIT. I moved here from Austin and TX has some brutal hot summers. Fl has stoopid high humidity and is equally miserable with lots of crappy summer air for making good power. This is the main reason I went with methanol injection. Running out of injector after porting the intake and freeing up the exhaust flow sealed the deal for the methanol.

russ472

Meth won't fix this issue. Ran into the same thing.

MickVette

Isn't adding methanol adding fuel? The ecu is asking for 105% injector, so I don't have that much to cover? Am I missing something? Please explain.

russ472

If you lean your tune out to compensate for meth, you will be meth dependent. My injector duty cycle was running in the 130s% at 14lbs boost. After leaning out the tune for meth, I only gained a few percent.
Most injector companies prefer that you keep duty cycle to 80% or less.

Although I probably needed it anyway, I installed ECS stage 1 fuel system and it didn't change duty cycle a bit. Then installed ID1000 injectors and now duty cycle is at 70%. Maybe I should have gone for more injector, but big price jump to ID1300s. Mine is a daily driver, so I don't think I will be looking for much more power anyway.

KM177122

Sub'd

MickVette

Correct. I will be dependent on Methanol Injection for whatever percentage of the injector duty cycle it covers in the tune.

If the Methanol pump fails to turn on, the engine will be lean and a red LED will be on the dash. The only safe guard is if the intake temps will stay close to ambient and on a hot day won't increase the timing. If the ambient temperature is cold it will add the additional timing, the engine will be lean and hopefully switch over to the low octane table where I will pull timing hopefully saving the engine.

KM177122

Any reason to run a meth dependent setup vs. going with a larger injector? I have plenty of injector but was just asking for the sake of asking.

MickVette

I live in Florida. The air here is hot and humid which is horrible for making good consistent power. A little bit of methanol will let me take control of that issue. I will eventually get bigger injectors and put the methanol on my turbo Mustang where it can do more good.

KM177122

Makes sense, thanks!

MickVette

Started tuning with the wide band O2 sensor tonight. Started at low 10:1 AFR where the engine wasn't happy and leaned the injector out half AFR point at a time until I got a touch of knock.

I'll decipher the data tomorrow then start balancing AFR and timing. One thing to note. I tried to add timing as AIT decreased temperature and no timing was added from that table. Bummer. I'll have to put timing in the high octane table and have a very safe low octane table.

MickVette

Tuning Update:
Using 100% methanol, I wasn't able to add much timing before getting some knock even though the intake temperatures started at 80°F and ended up at 44°F with the methanol flowing. The injector duty cycle did drop from 105% commanded to 94% with the M5 nozzle.

I learned from a good friend (Mike at Magnuson Superchargers) that:
"Methanol does a good job of cooling, adds a touch of octane and additional fuel if you need it. Water works in the combustion chamber to reduce end of compression temperature and stabilizes combustion (prevents knock)."

My next try at tuning methanol injection will be 30% water and 70% methanol. I chose this ratio after calculating how much injector I need to save using the results from 100% methanol. Depending on the results with 30% water, I might increase the water ratio. I'll let the injector tell me how far I can go.

I can say this from testing and tuning; the car used to rip the rear tires (Bridgestone RE50A run flats) loose really hard when I first got the car and started tuning so I went with a stickier RE11 and the tires would lose traction but I didn't have to let off the throttle. Tuning with the methanol, the car is ripping the RE11s loose and forcing me to get out of the throttle as the back end gets kicked sideways real hard in second and even into third. I think it may be time for the MT SS drag radials to make their debut.

Silver Bullet C6

Thanks for updating. I read you were not able to add much more timing, but do you find that timing was not lost because you had the meth lowering AIT? Thanks!

realcanuk

I would be carefull using meth to make up for the shortfall in injector size. Risky business..

MickVette

That is correct. No timing lost and I don't expect to lose any timing even in the hottest humid days of summer with methanol. The only timing I was able to add seems to be what I had as a safeguard in my non-methanol tune except for an additional degree at a few RPM ranges and two degrees in a couple others mostly at the 4800 to 5400 rpm ranges. The 6000 rpm and 6800+ rpms cells would not tolerate any more timing at all.

Agree. I'm keeping the duty cycle high as reasonable in the tune to try to be safe as possible. Also have an aggressive low octane timing table in case the system doesn't turn on to hopefully kick in and pull the timing reducing power to something I have enough injector for in the methanol tune. Tested that by breaking traction with traction control on, which pulls timing and power then checking injector duty cycle during that reduced state and rpm.

MickVette

I was going to try the water/methanol mix next. Julio from AlkyControl advised for NA applications to use methanol only so I may end my expectations for much more power using methanol injection and keep it as an AIT control during hot weather.

"Don't mess with water especially with NA as there is not enough temp to "flash" the liquid then distribution problems are created."

I did mix up a 30% water 70% methanol mix to potentially try and spilled some. Once the methanol evaporated off of what I spilled, the water stayed and left that part of the floor wet which supports what Julio is saying about there not being enough temperature NA to "flash" the liquid.