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I'm removing my ZF6 and bell housing to check my pivot stud and clutch fork (seems to be making "contact" noise when clutch pressed).
My question is while I have the transmission and bell housing out:
-Should I proactively replacement any parts?
(i.e. such as throw-out bearing that makes the "normal" whining noise when clutch depressed from day 1)
-Should I re-lube any parts?
-Any other tasks I should do when re-assembling?
With 44k miles, there shouldn't be a lot worn out. Your stock pressure plate and throwout bearing are of much higher quality than anything available new these days, so don't replace them unless there's an obvious problem!
I am also skeptical that your fork/pivot is worn out. My only advice is that when you put that back together, use blue Loctite on the smaller (6mm allen) screw that threads into the stud from the outside of the bellhousing.
Last edited by MatthewMiller; 01-16-2017 at 12:22 PM.
Good point about part quality and lower mileage. Thank you!
You're welcome. I'm paying forward from all the knowledge I've gotten here regarding my clutch woes over the past year. If you read up much at all, you'll learn that all replacement OE-style (pull-type) pressure plates these days are made in China. It doesn't matter if you buy a Cardone, Centerforce, Spec, or whatever: they are all based on the Chinese replacement parts. Those parts seem to use inferior metallurgy and bad molds and machining methods. So your original Valeo unit (which was made either in the US or Brazil) is better as long as there is nothing wrong with it. Knowing what I know now, I'd even have mine resurfaced before purchasing a replacement. The throwout bearing is a similar story. The cheap Chinese bearings in all the new kits just aren't very good, and if you can find an OE bearing they go for big bucks. So I'd stick with what you have unless you find there is a clear problem.
I agree with the previous posts. Either stay with your original parts or go to a hydraulic TOB and upgraded clutch, but unless you have a problem or plan on going with a high HP build just stay stock.
Same thing recently happened to my 96 with 41 thousand miles. Just replaced broken pivot stud and put it back together....she's running fine with no issues.
I bought the kit from Carolina Clutch for my 94'. I just used maroon scotch brite on the fly wheel and put it all back together per the FSM. All is well nearly 25k miles later.
That pivot stud is probably your "contact noise' issue. Replaced a couple of those on my '96. Warning, they are hard to find. I know that a few years ago, Jim Jandik at PowerTorque was working on manufacturing them, don't know if he actually ever did or not.
The thing to watch for one that assembly is the backing plate. It bolts from the outside of the bell housing into the pivot stud to prevent the stud from vibrating out. It is a very light torque spec, can't recall it right now, but it can snap very easily, It is a rather essential part.
When I changed my clutch at 130K miles, the DMF was toast. Yours is probably still good.
That pivot stud is probably your "contact noise' issue. Replaced a couple of those on my '96. Warning, they are hard to find. I know that a few years ago, Jim Jandik at PowerTorque was working on manufacturing them, don't know if he actually ever did or not.
The thing to watch for one that assembly is the backing plate. It bolts from the outside of the bell housing into the pivot stud to prevent the stud from vibrating out. It is a very light torque spec, can't recall it right now, but it can snap very easily, It is a rather essential part.
When I changed my clutch at 130K miles, the DMF was toast. Yours is probably still good.
How did you determine your DMF was toast? Not questioning, just genuinely curious. Even when they are past there allowed "movement" they will still work fine they just don't dampen the noise as well. Ofcourse if the seal is broken and the grease spills out then they really are toast.
That pivot stud is probably your "contact noise' issue. Replaced a couple of those on my '96. Warning, they are hard to find. I know that a few years ago, Jim Jandik at PowerTorque was working on manufacturing them, don't know if he actually ever did or not.
The thing to watch for one that assembly is the backing plate. It bolts from the outside of the bell housing into the pivot stud to prevent the stud from vibrating out. It is a very light torque spec, can't recall it right now, but it can snap very easily, It is a rather essential part.
11lb/ft for that locking screw (or "backing plate" - it's an unusual design). And yes, even at that their thread integrity is precarious. Use blue Loctite. Jim Jandik did make a run of new ones. He might have one left. Or his last one might be on my car. Sorry.
Last edited by MatthewMiller; 01-16-2017 at 12:26 PM.
How did you determine your DMF was toast? Not questioning, just genuinely curious. Even when they are past there allowed "movement" they will still work fine they just don't dampen the noise as well. Ofcourse if the seal is broken and the grease spills out then they really are toast.
LOL, the way to test for movement is, while the flywheel is on the car, put the pressure plate bolts in on opposing sides and use those to move the disc. If I recall, the max spec is 2". I could move mine at least that much withjust the palm of my hand. There was also grease present. So, yeah, it was toast. Replaced it with the Spec 22lb steel. Aside from the noise it made it a lot more fun to drive.
LOL, the way to test for movement is, while the flywheel is on the car, put the pressure plate bolts in on opposing sides and use those to move the disc. If I recall, the max spec is 2". I could move mine at least that much withjust the palm of my hand. There was also grease present. So, yeah, it was toast. Replaced it with the Spec 22lb steel. Aside from the noise it made it a lot more fun to drive.
-Should I re-lube any parts?
-Any other tasks I should do when re-assembling?
I would get a grease needle (looks like a hypodermic needle w/a zerk on the "syringe end"), and put some high quality, synthetic grease in the throw out bearing. Grease that is in there now hasn't gone many miles...but it IS 20 years old.
When you have it apart, check to see what is wrong and replace those.
I agree that it sounds like you may have a contact problem maybe due to the stud and fork. However, they may not be bad. If the stud comes loose and moves it can reduce clearances. If it is not worn, simply installing it correctly with locktite to keep it in position may be all that is needed.
Most of the parts in there are pretty expensive if you can find good replacements. The only proactive I did was the pilot bearing to go with a grooved bushing style since my original was marginal, the grooved style is better, and the cost was under $10.
The dual mass flywheel is a concern. The factory has defined a test to see if it is worn out or broken by checking the amount of rotation between the two parts of the flywheel (The FSM description is shown below). (The maximum amount of rotation is 1 3/8") Other than that and checking to see if the grease has been coming out of the flywheel it is a normal check for wear on the contact surface. If you are lucky, a red scotchbrite can clean up the surface OK.
....Dumb question - Is it possible to remove transmission WITH bell housing attached?
No. The bell housing needs to stay attached to the block when the transmission is removed.
The pull type clutch means that the throwout bearing is on the engine side of the clutch fingers. The clutch fork is anchored on the bell housing and the throwout bearing.
So even if you remove the belhousing to engine bolts, the bell housing is still attached to the clutch fork which is attached to the throwout bearing which is still attached to the clutch pressure plate which is still attached to the flywheel which is still attached to the engine.
So even if you remove the belhousing to engine bolts, the bell housing is still attached to the clutch fork which is attached to the throwout bearing which is still attached to the clutch pressure plate which is still attached to the flywheel which is still attached to the engine.
I suppose he could unscrew the fork pivot from outside the bellhousing and then leave the fork and bearing on there while removing the trans/bellhousing. But I can't think of a good reason to do it that way. With the shifter still on the trans, you need to be able to move the trans around a fair bit to get the stick to clear the tunnel on the way out. I would think the bellhousing would make that considerably harder. I'm also not sure if the tunnel would have enough clearance where it tapers down to let the bellhousing come straight back as far as required to get the input shaft all the way out.
So I guess the short answer is: don't do it that way.
I suppose he could unscrew the fork pivot from outside the bellhousing and then leave the fork and bearing on there while removing the trans/bellhousing. But I can't think of a good reason to do it that way. With the shifter still on the trans, you need to be able to move the trans around a fair bit to get the stick to clear the tunnel on the way out. I would think the bellhousing would make that considerably harder. I'm also not sure if the tunnel would have enough clearance where it tapers down to let the bellhousing come straight back as far as required to get the input shaft all the way out.
So I guess the short answer is: don't do it that way.
Unless I'm mistaken, been awhile, but I believe you would still have to remove the trans to get to the pivot stud on the bell housing. But, yeah, regardless, I would not want to fight with the trans and bell housing at the same time.
Unless I'm mistaken, been awhile, but I believe you would still have to remove the trans to get to the pivot stud on the bell housing. But, yeah, regardless, I would not want to fight with the trans and bell housing at the same time.
The pivot stud is hidden by the transmission when installed. See the picture below with the FSM drawing to show where the pivot stud is located.
01-14-2017, 08:43 PM
ZF6/Bellhousing - proactive part replacement?
Yep sounds done! Lol
