NightshiftHD

I'm adding Vintage Air to my 66 BB. I haven't yet decided if I will rebuild an A6 compressor I have or use the new Sanden compressor that come with the kit.

My question here is about refrigerants. Not sure which way to go on this either.

- My buddy has a tank of the old R-12 freon which he offered me.
- Or I could just charge it with the current R-134a.
- has anyone used the new Red Tek 12a blend? If you can believe their marketing, it is better than both R-12 or R-134a.

Bill

Frankie the Fink

Uh - I'd make sure I wasn't voiding my Vintage Air warranty first....you may be OK; but I'd double check...

wmf62

I could be wrong, but I THINK Sanden has different compressors for 134a and 12.

Bill

vettebuyer6369

I'm seriously considering Vintage Air, but I do not have much info.

Why wouldn't you use the compressor that comes in the kit?

GTOguy

The Sanden compressor will out-perform the original compressor and takes up much less room under hood. 134 will work just fine. In fact, your new system will out-perform the original massive R-12 system. Install the kit as it comes, charge with 134, and you'll be good to go for years.

NightshiftHD

Yup, already did that Frankie. The VA Perfect Fit warranty is 3 yr on parts. If I use my A6 compressor, only the evaporator stays with 3 yrs and the condenser drops to 18 mo. which I'm not worried about.

LouieM

I have a factory AC 67 and if the A6 compressor ever went tango-uniform I'd put in a smaller, more efficient Sanden, etc. compressor. That way I could actually reach the right-front spark plugs without employing Cirque du Soliel body contortions.

vettebuyer6369

When installing in a car that is not originally AC, are you saying you can use a stock-appearing compressor rather than the Sanden?

If so, what are the downsides?

NightshiftHD

It boils down to which you like the looks of better ... original GM A6 style or the new chinese Sanden that comes with the kit. See for yourself. Bill

NightshiftHD

Absolutely yes. These GM A6 compressors blow as cold as any on the market today. Any A6 properly charged with good airflow thru the condenser will produce a meat locker cabin using either R-12 or R-134a.

The downside is the GM A6 is not as efficient, meaning it takes a few more HP to drive it when compared to a new Sanden. And the damn thing is heavy, probably 50 lbs heavier than a Sanden. And it weeps oil (and refrigerant) out the front seal which gets slung up on the underside of your hood, which is not a good thing, so you need to put a pulley shield on it to prevent that. Bill

NightshiftHD

LMAO@Louie ... and I guess you'd have to say that's another downside right?

vettebuyer6369

I didn't know that. Thanks, Bill.

wmf62

this implies that there was once a specific compressor for 12, but now the norm seems to be just 134a..

http://www.sanden.com/faq.html

Bill

LouieM

Yup!

63 340HP

The Sanden is a superior compressor for refrigerant mass flow performance and lower power draw.

The Sanden is usually charged with POE oil, compatible with all three refrigerants.

R12 systems are usually charged with mineral oil, a better choice with an old system because the old seals may not be compatible with the synthetic POE oil (POE oil will not penetrate and swell the old seals).

​​​​​​​The new compressor is designed for R134a, with seals and hoses that are compatible with POE oil. I recommend R134a as it is the refrigerant the VA system and compressor is designed for.

The Red Tec 12a reads like a propane blend. The marketing team had fun with hiding the flammability in the comparison, as it is the only refrigerant that is flammable at 1-bar or atmospheric pressure (R12 is not flammable, and the R134a comparison is at 2-bar or 30 psi and it is not flammable at sea level 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure). Propane blends are restricted for transport air conditioning use in some states and some countries, because of the potential fire hazard to first responders. Read and heed the underlined storage warning in the marketing data. A fiberglass vehicle already has a potential for fire, without adding propane at 200 psi blowing out a hose, in the event of an accident. Propane blends are not my choice when two other proven refrigerant options are available for use.

​​​​​​​Good luck, and enjoy the cool.

NightshiftHD

Very good points about likely a propane blend. The folks at VA also do not recommend ANY blend of refrigerant, and suggest using only R-134a or R-12.

Since the 3 yr warranty with my system is limited unless I use the Sanden pump provided with R-134a, I'm about 95% leaning in this direction now. I'm gonna suck-up "the look" for common sense and get my system up and running as designed by VA with a modern non-leaking compressor and known refrigerant. Then, 3 years from now if I still want "old school" under the hood, I will purge and install my A6 with R-12. Thanks everyone for your comments. Bill

Easy Rhino

Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I seem to recall that Sanden compressors are available in an all-black finish, which makes them less visually intrusive under hood. No one familiar with an A6 will confuse a Sanden for one, but it comes closer to looking like an A6 in black.

NightshiftHD

You are right they do come in black ... but not from Vintage Air. If I use mine, it's gonna get painted s/g black for sure to tone it down

Easy Rhino

Totally agree with that line of thought.

GearheadJoe

Just to clarify the differences between the OEM A6 and the Sanden, either one can be used with R134 provided the proper oil is used. It is very common for A6 compressors to be converted to R134 with just an oil change.

To my knowledge, the A6 and the Sanden are functionally equivalent in terms of the cooling performance they provide. The Sanden is lighter and possibly more efficient, but it will not make your A/C any cooler than an A6.

The problem with converting an OEM A/C system from R12 to R134 is that R134 has a different optimal pressure for the STV/POA valve, so simply changing the refrigerant and the compressor oil leads to a slight decrease in cooling capacity when changing from R12 to R134. To maintain comparable cooling capacity, the STV/POA valve needs to be adjusted, and preferably, the condenser capacity needs to be increased.

However, these differences have nothing to do with the compressor itself. If you want to substitute an A6 compressor for the Sanden compressor in a Vintage Air system, there should be no loss of cooling capacity from just changing the compressor.