[Z06] wiggle test? Local dealership has no clue
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
wiggle test? Local dealership has no clue
My GMPP warranty is about to expire, and I called my local Chevrolet dealership and offered to pay the labor to have the valves inspected. They had no clue what I was talking about, and didn't want to "tear down my motor for no reason."
My warranty expires in 2 weeks....I'm looking for some solid advice quickly!
I'm in Richmond, Virginia....so if there are any corvette friend dealerships, please advise me of who they are! Hendrick Chevrolet is apparently unaware of any issues.
Thank you!
My warranty expires in 2 weeks....I'm looking for some solid advice quickly!
I'm in Richmond, Virginia....so if there are any corvette friend dealerships, please advise me of who they are! Hendrick Chevrolet is apparently unaware of any issues.
Thank you!
Last edited by SevenT6Vet; 03-27-2017 at 09:22 AM.
#2
Team Owner
My GMPP warranty is about to expire, and I called my local Chevrolet dealership and offered to pay the labor to have the valves inspected. They had no clue what I was talking about, and didn't want to "tear down my motor for no reason."
My warranty expires in 2 weeks....I'm looking for some solid advice quickly!
I'm in Richmond, Virginia....so if there are any corvette friend dealerships, please advise me of who they are! Hendrick Chevrolet is apparently unaware of any issues.
Thank you!
My warranty expires in 2 weeks....I'm looking for some solid advice quickly!
I'm in Richmond, Virginia....so if there are any corvette friend dealerships, please advise me of who they are! Hendrick Chevrolet is apparently unaware of any issues.
Thank you!
If you cant, pull the heads and send them off to AHP. Are you a DIY'er, or do you for sure need a shop to R&R the heads?
The following users liked this post:
Movie Muscle (03-08-2017)
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
MTPZO6, It's a 2008 and i'm at the end of all available extensions. I'm literally down to 2 weeks.
Travlee...I 100% agree, but the service manager just told me that he talked with his corvette specialist and they have no idea as to what they are checking for. I need to provide them instructions and what not. Either they are incompetent, oblivious, or are in the know and don't want to do it.
Travlee...I 100% agree, but the service manager just told me that he talked with his corvette specialist and they have no idea as to what they are checking for. I need to provide them instructions and what not. Either they are incompetent, oblivious, or are in the know and don't want to do it.
Last edited by SevenT6Vet; 03-06-2017 at 02:12 PM.
#6
Team Owner
Start here - AHP's DIY Wiggle Test: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...IY+wiggle+test
If you plan to do the head swap yourself, here's a great DIY thread on the process: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...=DIY+head+swap
Kohle at AHP can get you set up with a reworked set of heads, and all the gaskets/hardware needed to do the job. I think all that's left up to you to supply is tools, fluids, and elbow grease. Kohle offers support to walk you through the R&R process if you hit a stumbling block.
If you plan to do the head swap yourself, here's a great DIY thread on the process: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...=DIY+head+swap
Kohle at AHP can get you set up with a reworked set of heads, and all the gaskets/hardware needed to do the job. I think all that's left up to you to supply is tools, fluids, and elbow grease. Kohle offers support to walk you through the R&R process if you hit a stumbling block.
#7
Race Director
Hopefully this isnt a repost - if so feel free to remove it.
#13-06-01-001: Information on Customer Questions About Valve Guide Wear - (Jan 14, 2013)
Subject:
Information on Customer Questions About Valve Guide Wear
Models: 2006-2013 Chevrolet Corvette 427, Corvette Z06
Equipped with 7.0L V8 Engine (RPO LS7)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Customer Concern
Some owners of Corvettes equipped with the LS7 7.0L V8 engine may ask your dealership to check their vehicle for valve guide wear because of information that has been distributed on the internet, primarily at Corvette enthusiast sites. Due to these postings, some customers that have not had an issue may ask to have their vehicle checked. If a customer presents their vehicle and requests the valve guides be checked, the following information may be helpful to you and alleviate any concern for your customer.
Valve Guide Wear / Noise Concerns
To address any concern the customer may have, listen to the customer’s request and ask the following questions to differentiate if the customer has experienced a correctable engine concern or has anxiety over information they may have read.
Important: It is important to investigate all concerns and relay good factual information to your customer. If a customer indicates a concern about valve guide wear, it is possible they may have a valid unrelated engine issue, and do not know how to express the actual concern.
1. Have you experienced any concerns or difficulties that would indicate an engine problem?
2. Is the Check Engine Light ON? Does the vehicle exhibit any starting/running concerns?
3. If the concern is noise related, ask for a description of the type of noise heard?
Once the information is collected, and the nature of the customers concerns are known, here are some guidelines for appropriate actions:
•For any driveability, starting, running or found DTC code issues, if the car is under the respective warranty period, repair the vehicle following normal diagnostics as outlined in the Electronic Service Information (SI). If the vehicle is out of the warranty period, explain the available options for the customer.
•If the customer indicated a concern with engine noise, warm the vehicle to operating temperature and compare it to similar vehicles. If the vehicle does not exhibit unusual noises or malfunctions, the customer should be told there is nothing to indicate the need to disassemble the engine to determine valve guide wear. The LS7 is a high performance motor and as such is built with an emphasis on power while retaining the lowest possible noise and vibration characteristics. Some valve train noise may be evident, which is a by product of the performance nature of this engine. General Motors has reviewed paid warranty claims for valve and head replacement for the Corvette LS7 and the numbers of incidents are very low with no indication of an excessive wear issue.
•If the customer’s sole concern is based on information collected over the internet, with no verifiable symptom, and the customer insists the engine be disassembled and verified, it should be explained to the customer that any charges for the inspection would be at the customers expense. Valve guides are an internal engine component subject to wear over the life of the vehicle. If there is excessive wear (beyond the indicated service limit) after the investigation is completed, GM will cover the inspection and repair expense for vehicles covered under the Powertrain Limited warranty.
Aftermarket Equipment and Valve Guide Wear
The use of performance engine modifications has been found to accelerate valve guide wear. Replacement aftermarket mechanical parts, or software calibrations, may adversely affect the wear of these and other components. Any modification to the engine of GM vehicles voids the powertrain coverage portion of the vehicle warranty. For additional information on GM policies regarding aftermarket equipment and calibrations, please refer to the GM Service Policy & Procedures Manual, article 1.4.14 (Voided Warranties and Branded Titles) and article 1.2.2.12 (Non-GM Parts & Equipment and Original Equipment Alterations), along with the latest versions of Corporate Bulletin numbers 09-00-89-016 and 09-06-04-026 for additional information.
#13-06-01-001: Information on Customer Questions About Valve Guide Wear - (Jan 14, 2013)
Subject:
Information on Customer Questions About Valve Guide Wear
Models: 2006-2013 Chevrolet Corvette 427, Corvette Z06
Equipped with 7.0L V8 Engine (RPO LS7)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Customer Concern
Some owners of Corvettes equipped with the LS7 7.0L V8 engine may ask your dealership to check their vehicle for valve guide wear because of information that has been distributed on the internet, primarily at Corvette enthusiast sites. Due to these postings, some customers that have not had an issue may ask to have their vehicle checked. If a customer presents their vehicle and requests the valve guides be checked, the following information may be helpful to you and alleviate any concern for your customer.
Valve Guide Wear / Noise Concerns
To address any concern the customer may have, listen to the customer’s request and ask the following questions to differentiate if the customer has experienced a correctable engine concern or has anxiety over information they may have read.
Important: It is important to investigate all concerns and relay good factual information to your customer. If a customer indicates a concern about valve guide wear, it is possible they may have a valid unrelated engine issue, and do not know how to express the actual concern.
1. Have you experienced any concerns or difficulties that would indicate an engine problem?
2. Is the Check Engine Light ON? Does the vehicle exhibit any starting/running concerns?
3. If the concern is noise related, ask for a description of the type of noise heard?
Once the information is collected, and the nature of the customers concerns are known, here are some guidelines for appropriate actions:
•For any driveability, starting, running or found DTC code issues, if the car is under the respective warranty period, repair the vehicle following normal diagnostics as outlined in the Electronic Service Information (SI). If the vehicle is out of the warranty period, explain the available options for the customer.
•If the customer indicated a concern with engine noise, warm the vehicle to operating temperature and compare it to similar vehicles. If the vehicle does not exhibit unusual noises or malfunctions, the customer should be told there is nothing to indicate the need to disassemble the engine to determine valve guide wear. The LS7 is a high performance motor and as such is built with an emphasis on power while retaining the lowest possible noise and vibration characteristics. Some valve train noise may be evident, which is a by product of the performance nature of this engine. General Motors has reviewed paid warranty claims for valve and head replacement for the Corvette LS7 and the numbers of incidents are very low with no indication of an excessive wear issue.
•If the customer’s sole concern is based on information collected over the internet, with no verifiable symptom, and the customer insists the engine be disassembled and verified, it should be explained to the customer that any charges for the inspection would be at the customers expense. Valve guides are an internal engine component subject to wear over the life of the vehicle. If there is excessive wear (beyond the indicated service limit) after the investigation is completed, GM will cover the inspection and repair expense for vehicles covered under the Powertrain Limited warranty.
Aftermarket Equipment and Valve Guide Wear
The use of performance engine modifications has been found to accelerate valve guide wear. Replacement aftermarket mechanical parts, or software calibrations, may adversely affect the wear of these and other components. Any modification to the engine of GM vehicles voids the powertrain coverage portion of the vehicle warranty. For additional information on GM policies regarding aftermarket equipment and calibrations, please refer to the GM Service Policy & Procedures Manual, article 1.4.14 (Voided Warranties and Branded Titles) and article 1.2.2.12 (Non-GM Parts & Equipment and Original Equipment Alterations), along with the latest versions of Corporate Bulletin numbers 09-00-89-016 and 09-06-04-026 for additional information.
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
I have no plans of doing any work myself. If it is out of spec, the dealership will be doing all the work.
Thanks for quick replies and pics/links. I've sent a follow up email to the dealership and hope to hear something back soon. I'm dealing with the "leading Chevrolet corvette dealership" in this area, but as a backup, i'm going to contact 2 other Chevrolet dealerships since time is of the essence.
Thanks for quick replies and pics/links. I've sent a follow up email to the dealership and hope to hear something back soon. I'm dealing with the "leading Chevrolet corvette dealership" in this area, but as a backup, i'm going to contact 2 other Chevrolet dealerships since time is of the essence.
Last edited by SevenT6Vet; 03-06-2017 at 02:37 PM.
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
I sent 2nd dealership all the above links/pics/tsb, and they promptly called me back. They said it sounded "weird" (the whole test procedure) and referred me to a 3rd dealership. He said they really weren't set up to work on corvettes.
#10
Team Owner
I know time is of the essence, but maybe PM/email Rich at Abel Chevrolet (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ierichz06.html) up in NorCal to see if he can offer you some advice on how to navigate through the dealership's unawareness/unwillingness. I know he's done many, many head swaps on warranty claims; and even uses AHP for reworked heads in extended warranty situations. Maybe he can help steer you down the right path. Best of luck...
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
I know time is of the essence, but maybe PM/email Rich at Abel Chevrolet (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ierichz06.html) up in NorCal to see if he can offer you some advice on how to navigate through the dealership's unawareness/unwillingness. I know he's done many, many head swaps on warranty claims; and even uses AHP for reworked heads in extended warranty situations. Maybe he can help steer you down the right path. Best of luck...
BTW, 3rd dealership just referred me back to 1st dealership and to a 4th dealership. "we really aren't sure what you're talking about"
The following users liked this post:
Movie Muscle (03-08-2017)
#12
Instructor
Hey SevenT6, I used to live in Richmond and went through what you are doing about 5 years ago. Even called and visited dealerships up and down the East Coast ... I might have missed the one that knew what they were doing but each one I talked to either had NO CLUE or were not particularly interested. I did visit Tony's Corvettes in MD and sat down with Tony, who was very generous with his time (he had a 2009 at the time and had the same issue) and seemed engaged and interested. I ended up moving before I could follow-up with him, but you might give him a buzz. The other option close by to you might be Zip Corvette in Mechanicsville. Talk to Jason Abott. I've dealt with them for years and had pretty good experiences.
In the end I decided to nix the wiggle test and just sent the heads to WCCH, and had a great experience. Sounds like AHP does quality work as well. Bottomline for me was that with a question about the health of the heads I just by-passed the wiggle test once I looked into it and just had the heads done. Good luck - Tom
In the end I decided to nix the wiggle test and just sent the heads to WCCH, and had a great experience. Sounds like AHP does quality work as well. Bottomline for me was that with a question about the health of the heads I just by-passed the wiggle test once I looked into it and just had the heads done. Good luck - Tom
#13
Safety Car
bad deal bud, they cannot do all the work
They will just send it out, to a half rate low class machine shop with little experience on this exact engine.
You want this done right, have them send the heads to AHP then.
#14
Safety Car
How many miles on your car ?
30-40k? Just have them remove and replace with AHP rebuilt heads that you provide them.
Call Kohle buy the heads have them shipped to your house, drive to the dealership with heads in the car, send him the cores back once the dealer/shop finishes the work.
I would not even mess with the incompetence of the dealers and a wiggle test.
My 06 with 43k old man gentle street miles, no track, had 4 valves out of spec. My warranty had a week left and I pulled it off the road and did AHP heads without a wiggle test or measure. VERY high probability you have at or over guides now as GM produced these heads with out of spec guides on brand new motors.
#15
Team Owner
Problem is they are not going to replace his heads with AHP heads under warranty. He needs them to eat the cost/labor, thats what the warranty is for. If you can get them to put new GM heads on, at least it resets the clock to zero and probably good for 15k or so until they need checked again.
Or just pay to put some good heads on it and enjoy.
Or just pay to put some good heads on it and enjoy.
#17
Safety Car
I see what your saying.
In that case he should take the gamble and have them remove heads
Will GM dealerships even do a wiggle test for warranty claims? I thought many would not authorize repair unless heads were off.
#18
Team Owner
Same test GM has had in their service manuals forever...until all of sudden, the LS7 has convinced them its no longer a valid/accurate method of testing.
#19
Intermediate
I know time is of the essence, but maybe PM/email Rich at Abel Chevrolet (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ierichz06.html) up in NorCal to see if he can offer you some advice on how to navigate through the dealership's unawareness/unwillingness. I know he's done many, many head swaps on warranty claims; and even uses AHP for reworked heads in extended warranty situations. Maybe he can help steer you down the right path. Best of luck...
#20
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Harbor City California
Posts: 2,817
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OP we have alot of customers that use our heads through independat repair shops.
Give us a call
310-326-2399
or shoot us an email
hp@americanheritageperformance.com
We would be glad to speak with you about the GMPP procedure and offer any assistance we can offer.
http://www.americanheritageperformance.com/
Give us a call
310-326-2399
or shoot us an email
hp@americanheritageperformance.com
We would be glad to speak with you about the GMPP procedure and offer any assistance we can offer.
http://www.americanheritageperformance.com/