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here's one for books. I am practically finished with the bodywork on my 64 roadster and discovered something really upsetting.
the headlight bucket holes are in the wrong place. Apparently sometime in the history of this car somebody did a repair on one side or both that placed the headlight bucket holes off center by 3/4". I'm horrified!
the center of the hood matches the corresponding point on the nose perfectly but if I measure from the center to the passenger side bucket hole that measurement is 3/4" more then that same measurement on the drivers side. I wonder if somehow a 65-67 piece may have been spliced in, I believe they are different.
I have 2 choices.. replace the entire nose or move one or both bucket holes. I need to know the correct positions before I decide.
if you have a 63 or 64 please provide me with the following measurements.. I bet only one is wrong since the center metal brace is placed correctly, dead center.
Now that is a real kick in the *****. I know when I do bodywork I like to get the car outside and stand away from it at a distance and many times mis-alignments that are not evident at close range come into view when standing back 15 or so feet. Close up I bet your panel goof isn't too evident but stand back and I bet it becomes more obvious. Get back to work and fix it otherwise it will bug the crap out of you.
the car is in a standard 2 car garage, nose is 3' from the garage door. I did the insides of the passenger bucket hole and then fine tuned its edges. then went to do the drivers side. somehow I caught it..
I was up half the night worrying about it.. yes, its a kick in the *****.
I just tried to call the original owner to ask him but sadly he died just a couple of months after he sold it to me. I wonder if he knew.
the bodyman that did this must be named moe, larry or curly
There are a lot of things that will move with the headlight opening and splicing in a piece may not be all that easy. If you replace the complete headlight panel it might be easier and cheaper. You will also get nice openings that will allow you to fit the doors properly. I agree with the suggestion to look up from underneath. That way you can see just how much work has been done before. I had a similar issue on my recent 65 rebuild. When I had the body off and on the dolly, I went around a measured everything. Sure enough, the right rear fender was 1/4 inch closer to the center line than the left. Something that you would never notice once the car was done, but something that would drive you nuts for as long as you own the car. I measured my 67 and determined that the right fender was the problem. After a week of work, it was fixed. A bad deal, but a lot better than discovering the problem after paint.
Your top surround is a 65-67, not a 63-64, but that shouldn't effect the position of the headlight openings. On 63-64 noses, there are two indents where the nose emblem mounts. Without the indents, you either need to make extra large mounting holes, making it difficult to position the emblem properly, or the emblem won't sit flush.
I think at the minimum, I would replace the upper headlight panel, but first I would check the measurements and fit of the whole nose, to make sure everything else lines up properly.
I have a new 63-64 top surround panel in stock, and it measures 11 3/8" from the nose center line to each of the rough headlight openings.
Below is a picture of the holes for the 63-64 nose emblem, on the surround panel I have. Only the two small holes at the bottom of the recesses, get drilled out, not the whole recess.
It's not " bad " body work. Repair looks functional. Just had one of those days with the ruler. He probably saw it after paint and thought, ...... its not that noticeable. Obviously the buyer didn't notice prior to purchase.
I cut a board too short ( twice ) on one house. When ones mind wanders it gets out of range sometimes. What was the excuse I used, ... long day , problems of many , ladder climb to second story confused my ruler. I'm sure there were more.
Fortunately you discovered this BEFORE paint, so consider yourself lucky and cut your loss by replacing that panel and move forward with your project. Pilot Dan
I did check underneth and their is nothing suspicious at a glance. all original GM parts from way back when. Bonding was with a thickened clear resin done very sloppily probably in the 60's or 70's.
verdict is whodever attached the headlight support brackets did it with no thought, A calamity of errors leaning everything towards the passenger side. The nose support is off 1/8" so somebody tweaked the hood and the center body panel to fit. panel is also slightly tilted. Add it all up it adds to 1/2" off, not 3/4 like I originally measured,
I would need to move all the headlight supports to get it within 1/8". I suspect its been
driven for mooch o years like that. I think I'll do a 1 piece from half-way of the fender-wells forward. around 1200. hate to remove original parts but I want to get it done and now knowing nose may not be a 64.. what the heck. I put aftermarket quarters on it anyway.
I would still like that total measurement "C" anyway.. I'm going to sleep on it and inspect tomorrow.
funny.. was going to post Marty Feldman's photo myself, instead of mentioning the 3 stooges. just saw sherlock holms smarter brother the other night
It's not " bad " body work. Repair looks functional. Just had one of those days with the ruler. He probably saw it after paint and thought, ...... its not that noticeable. Obviously the buyer didn't notice prior to purchase.
I cut a board too short ( twice ) on one house. When ones mind wanders it gets out of range sometimes. What was the excuse I used, ... long day , problems of many , ladder climb to second story confused my ruler. I'm sure there were more.
No. Its absolutely bad bodywork....
Form, fit and function...
Satisfying only the last of those three parameters doesn't cut it...
To the OP: Those front end wheel well repairs rarely go well....the repair line always seem to come back after a time.... I'm not telling you to do another whole hood surround (I'm no body man) but maybe there is some other alternative without the possibility of a bad outcome. I judged a black/black '63 split window fuelie last year that had a partial front clip repair done at the wheel wells. The repairs were clearly visible on both sides and ruined the looks of an otherwise gorgeous car...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 03-29-2017 at 08:39 PM.
I don't understand how that happened. The beam under the nose positions the headlight bucket end panels in place. If the opening is not in the correct position, Someone must have attached those panels in a spot other than where they are supposed to be. How are yours attached to the beam? Are original holes visible?
From what you have said so far, I would be concerned that a major repair was done on the car. If it was my car, I would start by measuring everything. Is the front clip in the tight place, is the car square, etc. Don't do a half way fix that will look lousy later. Splicing in a one piece front end does not sound like a good plan.
the original holes are there..the heAdlight support brackets have 2 slotted mount holes each. when fastening they can be attached center to the holes, to one side or the other or tilted. they are tilted and slid to the passenger side. they could be broken loose and reattached towards the drivers side. I may do that but the corners will have to be redone and I would have put the headlight doors in first to get the alignment right. I did alot of glass work already to make the doors fit in there right which may not work after I move everything. the doors sat in really badly before I reworked everything. all that work for nothing and maybe making fitting more differicult after moving them over
03-29-2017, 03:21 PM
worst body shop ever..
Pilot Dan
