MTI Racing tuned, EFI Live saying Locked ECU?
10-03-2010, 10:02 PM
#1
MTI Racing tuned, EFI Live saying Locked ECU?
MTI Racing installed the A&A Corvette S/C on my Z06, and did the tuning.
It was my understanding that EFI Live was used for the tuning platform.
Tonight, while trying to open the tune to make changes for a new round of mods........my EFI Live software is saying the ECU is locked.
MTI, can you confirm this to be the case? I was told by a customer service rep that the ECU's are left unlocked, but this doesn't appear to be the case.
Kind of desparate here, $800 for EFI live is a ton of money to lose if I can't tune the car.
It was my understanding that EFI Live was used for the tuning platform.
Tonight, while trying to open the tune to make changes for a new round of mods........my EFI Live software is saying the ECU is locked.
MTI, can you confirm this to be the case? I was told by a customer service rep that the ECU's are left unlocked, but this doesn't appear to be the case.
Kind of desparate here, $800 for EFI live is a ton of money to lose if I can't tune the car.
10-04-2010, 08:17 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
How far is MTI? You can have it unlocked. I also hear stories that if it was locked with an updated version of EFIL, that you can get a code from the tuner to unlock it (in lieu of going in to the shop to have it unlocked). Though I've yet to personally know of anyone that's done that successfully.
I feel your pain, bro. Truly. That's grounds for finding a new shop/tuner, imo.
10-04-2010, 09:28 AM
#3
Called Stephen @ MTI this morning.
The ECU is locked, so I'm screwed for a quick fix.
They have offered to unlock the ECU and return it to stock.....if I'll remove it from the car And ship it back to them.
Very unfortunate......especially when the code could have been given to me over the phone.
Yes, I can confirm EFI locked tunes can be unlocked with a password/code.
Bummed as I was misinformed.....
The ECU is locked, so I'm screwed for a quick fix.
They have offered to unlock the ECU and return it to stock.....if I'll remove it from the car And ship it back to them.
Very unfortunate......especially when the code could have been given to me over the phone.
Yes, I can confirm EFI locked tunes can be unlocked with a password/code.
Bummed as I was misinformed.....
10-04-2010, 11:34 AM
#5
Supporting Vendor
Called Stephen @ MTI this morning.
The ECU is locked, so I'm screwed for a quick fix.
They have offered to unlock the ECU and return it to stock.....if I'll remove it from the car And ship it back to them.
Very unfortunate......especially when the code could have been given to me over the phone.
Yes, I can confirm EFI locked tunes can be unlocked with a password/code.
Bummed as I was misinformed.....
The ECU is locked, so I'm screwed for a quick fix.
They have offered to unlock the ECU and return it to stock.....if I'll remove it from the car And ship it back to them.
Very unfortunate......especially when the code could have been given to me over the phone.
Yes, I can confirm EFI locked tunes can be unlocked with a password/code.
Bummed as I was misinformed.....
10-04-2010, 11:39 AM
#6
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You paid for the tune, therefore it should be your tune to do with as you please. If it is locked, that flat sucks. It should be unlocked AND the tune that you paid for should still be on the ECM. Total 
if you have to give up your tune to get it unlocked.
Elmer
if you have to give up your tune to get it unlocked.Elmer
10-04-2010, 11:52 AM
#7
I'm very upset, as this went from a $200 quick dyne tune, to a full remap from scratch.
I just wanted this board to be aware, and hope MTI will take notice to this thread.
Never had this happen with any other tuner shop, an I've owned over a dozen modified cars.
I just wanted this board to be aware, and hope MTI will take notice to this thread.
Never had this happen with any other tuner shop, an I've owned over a dozen modified cars.
10-04-2010, 01:17 PM
#9
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That's a bummer man, tune locking is an interesting balancing act of self preservation and customer enraging.
If you don't tune lock, and you've done something special (Ie tune for a special cam, or fix some driveability piece that is plaguing others) your work gets stolen and reproduced mercilessly and you no longer have anything the cheaper, unexperienced guys can't offer in their 'mix and match a million internet tunes to get a good tune' tune.
If you do, you **** off customers who believe they own the right to do whatever they want with your calibration and work.
Not suggesting of course anyone is trying to steal anyones work - just pointing out the reasons tuner locks exist.
If you don't tune lock, and you've done something special (Ie tune for a special cam, or fix some driveability piece that is plaguing others) your work gets stolen and reproduced mercilessly and you no longer have anything the cheaper, unexperienced guys can't offer in their 'mix and match a million internet tunes to get a good tune' tune.
If you do, you **** off customers who believe they own the right to do whatever they want with your calibration and work.
Not suggesting of course anyone is trying to steal anyones work - just pointing out the reasons tuner locks exist.
10-04-2010, 01:56 PM
#10
Former Vendor
That's a bummer man, tune locking is an interesting balancing act of self preservation and customer enraging.
If you don't tune lock, and you've done something special (Ie tune for a special cam, or fix some driveability piece that is plaguing others) your work gets stolen and reproduced mercilessly and you no longer have anything the cheaper, unexperienced guys can't offer in their 'mix and match a million internet tunes to get a good tune' tune.
If you do, you **** off customers who believe they own the right to do whatever they want with your calibration and work.
Not suggesting of course anyone is trying to steal anyones work - just pointing out the reasons tuner locks exist.
If you don't tune lock, and you've done something special (Ie tune for a special cam, or fix some driveability piece that is plaguing others) your work gets stolen and reproduced mercilessly and you no longer have anything the cheaper, unexperienced guys can't offer in their 'mix and match a million internet tunes to get a good tune' tune.
If you do, you **** off customers who believe they own the right to do whatever they want with your calibration and work.
Not suggesting of course anyone is trying to steal anyones work - just pointing out the reasons tuner locks exist.
Very well said, Chris.
Yes, we've had customers say, "I am learning how to tune, so I wanted you to tune it so I can read what you did."
Because Riggs is adding a camshaft to the centrifugal supercharger, the tuning parameters will drastically change, thus I recommend that he have a local tuner start from scratch and build a tune that best compliments the camshaft he is installing.
Just send us the computer and we'll flash it with a base that he can program from there.
Last edited by MTI RACING; 10-04-2010 at 02:07 PM.
10-04-2010, 02:18 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
.
Very well said.
We've had customers say, "I am learning how to tune, so I wanted you to tune it so I can read what you did."
Because Riggs is adding a camshaft to the centrifugal supercharger, the tuning parameters will drastically change, thus I recommend that he have a local tuner start from scratch and build a tune that best compliments the camshaft.
Just send us the computer and we'll flash it with a base that he can program from there.
Very well said.
We've had customers say, "I am learning how to tune, so I wanted you to tune it so I can read what you did."
Because Riggs is adding a camshaft to the centrifugal supercharger, the tuning parameters will drastically change, thus I recommend that he have a local tuner start from scratch and build a tune that best compliments the camshaft.
Just send us the computer and we'll flash it with a base that he can program from there.
Riggs, I don't read in your words that you plan to share MTIs tune with anyone else. If you give Stephen your word and email as such so he has it in writing of your plans I bet MTI will step up and do the right thing and give you the password.
10-04-2010, 02:38 PM
#12
Former Vendor
So, we have never met Riggs before.
Like I said, just send me the computer, and we'll format it in a way the new tuner can work with.
Last edited by MTI RACING; 10-04-2010 at 02:42 PM.
10-04-2010, 04:52 PM
#13
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Two sides two sides. Can't blame you for wanting to keep your secrets under your hat.
10-05-2010, 01:42 PM
#14
Former Vendor
i have been a tuner for quite a while, and i have alot of tricks that i use for driveability that my local competitors dont know about, but i dont lock tunes, i found most tuners lock there tunes because they want to hide their flawed work not their great work ... that has been experience..... i am not saying this is the case though
10-05-2010, 09:12 PM
#15
While I do appreciate a "solution" being offered, it's just not the solution I had hoped.
In the end, life goes on and I'm just ready for the next round of mods.
In the end, life goes on and I'm just ready for the next round of mods.
Last edited by Riggs; 10-05-2010 at 09:39 PM.
10-15-2010, 09:45 AM
#16
Platinum Supporting Vendor
There are always two or sometimes even more sides to a story. I have been debating about locking my tunes in certain circumstances. I am not really worried about the guy coping something, because in the end you still don't learn why I did that and every car is a little different and my tune in one car may not work as well in another.
The reason I have been toying with this is for this exact case above. You build a car for someone especially a boosted application and now that anyone can get there hands on EFI Live or HP Tuners they decide they want to modify something. Car goes boom, calibration is returned to my tune and now they are calling for warranty. Everyone feels that when they pay for a tune, they own the tune. That is not the case you are paying for someone to make the car run correctly, you do not own the calibration they put in there. You are basically paying for their time. None of us can walk into a GM dealer and demand the code or the calibration into the factory VCM, we are granted access to that from third party vendors like HTuners and EFI Live. There is still allot of the calibration you can't see even using those. Has anyone actually got the GM tuning software?
I think what I am going to start doing is locking down anything where we do mechanical work that requires a tune, if the customer calls and request a password, I'll give it to you, but your warranty will be done.
I think I have to side with MTI, I don't think they have allot to lose by someone seeing their work since it is just numbers if you don't understand what they do, but more about a reputation at stake. I can promise you that if someone were to blow one their engines up the one thing you will not hear in the story is that they changed the calibration from what MTI had in it. I feel for the OP, but you just let them turn it to stock, the car is will still start and run even with the SC and aftermarket cam to give the tuner a starting point to work from.
The reason I have been toying with this is for this exact case above. You build a car for someone especially a boosted application and now that anyone can get there hands on EFI Live or HP Tuners they decide they want to modify something. Car goes boom, calibration is returned to my tune and now they are calling for warranty. Everyone feels that when they pay for a tune, they own the tune. That is not the case you are paying for someone to make the car run correctly, you do not own the calibration they put in there. You are basically paying for their time. None of us can walk into a GM dealer and demand the code or the calibration into the factory VCM, we are granted access to that from third party vendors like HTuners and EFI Live. There is still allot of the calibration you can't see even using those. Has anyone actually got the GM tuning software?
I think what I am going to start doing is locking down anything where we do mechanical work that requires a tune, if the customer calls and request a password, I'll give it to you, but your warranty will be done.
I think I have to side with MTI, I don't think they have allot to lose by someone seeing their work since it is just numbers if you don't understand what they do, but more about a reputation at stake. I can promise you that if someone were to blow one their engines up the one thing you will not hear in the story is that they changed the calibration from what MTI had in it. I feel for the OP, but you just let them turn it to stock, the car is will still start and run even with the SC and aftermarket cam to give the tuner a starting point to work from.
Last edited by Zip Corvettes; 10-15-2010 at 09:47 AM.
10-15-2010, 10:30 AM
#17
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There are always two or sometimes even more sides to a story. I have been debating about locking my tunes in certain circumstances. I am not really worried about the guy coping something, because in the end you still don't learn why I did that and every car is a little different and my tune in one car may not work as well in another.
The reason I have been toying with this is for this exact case above. You build a car for someone especially a boosted application and now that anyone can get there hands on EFI Live or HP Tuners they decide they want to modify something. Car goes boom, calibration is returned to my tune and now they are calling for warranty. Everyone feels that when they pay for a tune, they own the tune. That is not the case you are paying for someone to make the car run correctly, you do not own the calibration they put in there. You are basically paying for their time. None of us can walk into a GM dealer and demand the code or the calibration into the factory VCM, we are granted access to that from third party vendors like HTuners and EFI Live. There is still allot of the calibration you can't see even using those. Has anyone actually got the GM tuning software?
I think what I am going to start doing is locking down anything where we do mechanical work that requires a tune, if the customer calls and request a password, I'll give it to you, but your warranty will be done.
I think I have to side with MTI, I don't think they have allot to lose by someone seeing their work since it is just numbers if you don't understand what they do, but more about a reputation at stake. I can promise you that if someone were to blow one their engines up the one thing you will not hear in the story is that they changed the calibration from what MTI had in it. I feel for the OP, but you just let them turn it to stock, the car is will still start and run even with the SC and aftermarket cam to give the tuner a starting point to work from.
The reason I have been toying with this is for this exact case above. You build a car for someone especially a boosted application and now that anyone can get there hands on EFI Live or HP Tuners they decide they want to modify something. Car goes boom, calibration is returned to my tune and now they are calling for warranty. Everyone feels that when they pay for a tune, they own the tune. That is not the case you are paying for someone to make the car run correctly, you do not own the calibration they put in there. You are basically paying for their time. None of us can walk into a GM dealer and demand the code or the calibration into the factory VCM, we are granted access to that from third party vendors like HTuners and EFI Live. There is still allot of the calibration you can't see even using those. Has anyone actually got the GM tuning software?
I think what I am going to start doing is locking down anything where we do mechanical work that requires a tune, if the customer calls and request a password, I'll give it to you, but your warranty will be done.
I think I have to side with MTI, I don't think they have allot to lose by someone seeing their work since it is just numbers if you don't understand what they do, but more about a reputation at stake. I can promise you that if someone were to blow one their engines up the one thing you will not hear in the story is that they changed the calibration from what MTI had in it. I feel for the OP, but you just let them turn it to stock, the car is will still start and run even with the SC and aftermarket cam to give the tuner a starting point to work from.
Sorry, it is my car and all that is with it becomes my property upon purchase. IF I want to mess up the tune or discard my warranty, that is my option. If I hire someone to tune my car, the tune becomes my property too. I'm not too keen on a PW but were YOU offering a WARRANTY that my car will not grenade on your tune, then I might consider a lock. That would cover my butt too as I couldn't dork it up and then stiff you for my mistake. HOWEVER, if the tune were locked and I asked for the PW, giving me the PW would void the warranty and that seems to be the condition here.
Give the man the PW and make sure he understands that the warranty, if any, is null and void. Sending the ECM back is dumb as hell. Not giving the PW is dumb too.
That's just my old geezer opinion and the world will go on with or without it.
Elmer
10-15-2010, 10:45 AM
#18
Melting Slicks
If it has a 2 bar MAP it won't run. It won't start.
Sorry, it is my car and all that is with it becomes my property upon purchase. IF I want to mess up the tune or discard my warranty, that is my option. If I hire someone to tune my car, the tune becomes my property too. I'm not too keen on a PW but were YOU offering a WARRANTY that my car will not grenade on your tune, then I might consider a lock. That would cover my butt too as I couldn't dork it up and then stiff you for my mistake. HOWEVER, if the tune were locked and I asked for the PW, giving me the PW would void the warranty and that seems to be the condition here.
Give the man the PW and make sure he understands that the warranty, if any, is null and void. Sending the ECM back is dumb as hell. Not giving the PW is dumb too.
That's just my old geezer opinion and the world will go on with or without it.
Elmer
Sorry, it is my car and all that is with it becomes my property upon purchase. IF I want to mess up the tune or discard my warranty, that is my option. If I hire someone to tune my car, the tune becomes my property too. I'm not too keen on a PW but were YOU offering a WARRANTY that my car will not grenade on your tune, then I might consider a lock. That would cover my butt too as I couldn't dork it up and then stiff you for my mistake. HOWEVER, if the tune were locked and I asked for the PW, giving me the PW would void the warranty and that seems to be the condition here.
Give the man the PW and make sure he understands that the warranty, if any, is null and void. Sending the ECM back is dumb as hell. Not giving the PW is dumb too.
That's just my old geezer opinion and the world will go on with or without it.
Elmer
10-15-2010, 10:57 AM
#19
Platinum Supporting Vendor
If it has a 2 bar MAP it won't run. It won't start.
Sorry, it is my car and all that is with it becomes my property upon purchase. IF I want to mess up the tune or discard my warranty, that is my option. If I hire someone to tune my car, the tune becomes my property too. I'm not too keen on a PW but were YOU offering a WARRANTY that my car will not grenade on your tune, then I might consider a lock. That would cover my butt too as I couldn't dork it up and then stiff you for my mistake. HOWEVER, if the tune were locked and I asked for the PW, giving me the PW would void the warranty and that seems to be the condition here.
Give the man the PW and make sure he understands that the warranty, if any, is null and void. Sending the ECM back is dumb as hell. Not giving the PW is dumb too.
That's just my old geezer opinion and the world will go on with or without it.
Elmer
Sorry, it is my car and all that is with it becomes my property upon purchase. IF I want to mess up the tune or discard my warranty, that is my option. If I hire someone to tune my car, the tune becomes my property too. I'm not too keen on a PW but were YOU offering a WARRANTY that my car will not grenade on your tune, then I might consider a lock. That would cover my butt too as I couldn't dork it up and then stiff you for my mistake. HOWEVER, if the tune were locked and I asked for the PW, giving me the PW would void the warranty and that seems to be the condition here.
Give the man the PW and make sure he understands that the warranty, if any, is null and void. Sending the ECM back is dumb as hell. Not giving the PW is dumb too.
That's just my old geezer opinion and the world will go on with or without it.
Elmer
You may own the car, and you may own everything in it, but you do not own the data used to make it run correctly. When you bought your car new, did GM give you a copy of the tune? That is proprietary information the same as a tuners information. GM will void your warranty if they see your car is tuned, just the same as a tuner should. Gm protected themselves by not allowing access to the VCM, it took very smart software engineers to figure out how to get around it. So your stock ECM is protected when you purchase the car. I don't know if you approached the service manager at a dealer and demanded the tune what he might say to you or how he would look at you. When I am tuning, you are paying me for my time to make your car run correctly, not what information I put in there, just the same as I don't hand over my software either.
I agree with you that on that it should be your decision to void a warranty or not. I am going to start applying passwords to mine to lock them down, but I will give out a password and void the warranty. Maybe not all people are as honest as you, MTI has to protect their reputation. By making the computer stock, then they have no liability in anything. What if the new tuner blows his motor up and then says it was something in the tune MTI did. That could be blown up all over the internet with the new tuners name left out it. They are right in the way they are handling this. If the new owner of the car does not want to send his PCM back, then just put a new one in it and upload the GM program into it. I don't think this is as big deal as everyone is making it out to be.
Last edited by Zip Corvettes; 10-15-2010 at 11:00 AM.
10-15-2010, 11:08 AM
#20
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Yes, your car will run. You might not drive it to the dyno but it will start and you will be able to force it to run around 2k.
You may own the car, and you may own everything in it, but you do not own the data used to make it run correctly. When you bought your car new, did GM give you a copy of the tune? That is proprietary information the same as a tuners information. GM will void your warranty if they see your car is tuned, just the same as a tuner should.
I agree with you that on that it should be your decision to void a warranty or not. I am going to start applying passwords to mine to lock them down, but I will give out a password and void the warranty. Maybe not all people are as honest as you, MTI has to protect their reputation. By making the computer stock, then they have no liability in anything. What if the new tuner blows his motor up and then says it was something in the tune MTI did. That could be blown up all over the internet with the new tuners name left out it. They are right in the way they are handling this. If the new owner of the car does not want to send his PCM back, then just put a new one in it and upload the GM program into it. I don't think this is as big deal as everyone is making it out to be.
You may own the car, and you may own everything in it, but you do not own the data used to make it run correctly. When you bought your car new, did GM give you a copy of the tune? That is proprietary information the same as a tuners information. GM will void your warranty if they see your car is tuned, just the same as a tuner should.
I agree with you that on that it should be your decision to void a warranty or not. I am going to start applying passwords to mine to lock them down, but I will give out a password and void the warranty. Maybe not all people are as honest as you, MTI has to protect their reputation. By making the computer stock, then they have no liability in anything. What if the new tuner blows his motor up and then says it was something in the tune MTI did. That could be blown up all over the internet with the new tuners name left out it. They are right in the way they are handling this. If the new owner of the car does not want to send his PCM back, then just put a new one in it and upload the GM program into it. I don't think this is as big deal as everyone is making it out to be.
Lock it, I'm good with that IF YOU GUARANTEE something. Give me the PW and your guarantee is finished as of the instant you release that PW to me. MTI will not get hammered IF they simply state, PE given date/time and warranty ended at that time.
Did they reply in here? I thought they did. In this case, the release of the PW would have been the quickest way for MTI and the car owner to get back to business.
New ECM, I think not. Shipping the ECM, I think not.
I try and do the, no fuss, easy on everyone, way of doing business. Old geezers usually go with the flow and have learned politeness and trust go a long way. (Except for me, I'm a snot...
)Enjoy the day,
Elmer