THE BLACK WIDOW

Beware:

On Feb 1st 2012 I ordered the LS9-R clutch kit from Katech KAT-A6184. With the remote bleeder and shipping I spent $1825.70. I had the clutch kit installed at the dealership who installed the katech flywheel, clutch and pressure plate, slave as well as a new gm clutch master cylinder. I did the usual stop and go 500 mile break in period no issues. Let me also state that this is a weekend vehicle so I only drive it on weekends weather providing. Well one Sunday mid April I was driving the car and noticed as I shifted into third gear there was a strange noise from the drivetrain area. I coasted to the side of the road to soon find out that the car would not come out of gear. The car would move forward fine but it was stuck in gear for some strange reason. I turned the car off but as I tried to start it again with the clutch pedal pressed in the car tried to jump forward and still would not come out of gear. I let the car sit a bit, checked the clutch fluid and still no luck so I had the car towed back to the dealership. The dealership began by checking a few things and replacing the clutch master again with no luck and then they tore the rear end and drivetrain all back out. The clutch disk on the pressure plate side had been ground down to the rivets and there was a large worn area on the pressure plate as well. The strange part is that the flywheel side had not worn at all like that and the flywheel still looked perfect. I contacted Jason at Katech that following week to discuss what had happened and informed him that the car had only 700 miles on it since the clutch was installed. He said he would have his “engineers” look into the pictures that I had taken and for me to send him the damaged parts back. After numerous emails and different “ideas” of what they thought might have happened, Jason refused to stand behind his product (which was obviously defective) and replace the parts. I have attached pictures and copies of our emailed conversations.

Me: Hi Jason,
I had called you the other day in regards to my LS9-R clutch kit that I purchased back around the first of February. I had the dealership install my clutch kit on Feb 10th and it has approximately 700 miles on it since the install. I also had the dealership install a new clutch master when we put this clutch kit in. As I was telling you the other day the clutch locked up and wouldn't disengage at all. I had the car towed back to the dealership. The dealership first replaced the clutch master cylinder to see if that was the issue but no luck. They then tore the whole thing back down. I had the technician take pictures of everything and I have attached them for you to see. The disc on the flywheel side looks perfect he said and the flywheel is still in excellent condition as well. I'm thinking I need to switch out the disk, pressure plate and slave. Please give me a call at your convenience so we can discuss swapping this out for another unit.
Thanks James

Jason’s first email response: Thanks for the pictures. I'm having one of our engineers review this. I'll get back to you.
Jason Harding
Director of Aftermarket Operations

Jason’s next email response: James,
It looks like the clutch was slipping for a long time, finally wore the material down on one disk and let go. You have a lot of clutch dust on the slave cylinder for only 700 miles and it looks wet. This could be caused by an oil leak at the rear main seal or a hydraulic leak. You will need to replace the clutch assembly and investigate an oil leak.

Best Regards,
Jason Harding
Director of Aftermarket Operations

My response: Jason there is no leak of any sort on any part of the clutch assembly. There is no rear main seal leak at either. There is clutch dust on the slave boot because the clutch disk was worn down to the rivets and that dust had to go somewhere. There was definitely some sort of defect in the pressure plate and disk and these parts need to be replaced.
James

Jason’s next email response: James,

I've been speaking to the engineers involved with the design of this clutch and I have some more information for you about the failure you experienced and a concrete explanation. The failure is from what the engineers call “cold burst over speed.” In other words, the drivetrain was over-revved when cold. The disks are good to over 10,000rpm when hot, but when cold that threshold is greatly reduced. If the car experiences a mechanical over-rev, clutch disk speed exceeds maximum with clutch pedal in. The input shaft is still traveling at high speed even though the engine is decoupled from the gearbox and an engine over-rev does not occur. I hope that sheds some more light on the failure.

Best Regards,
Jason Harding
Director of Aftermarket Operations

My response once again: Jason,
I have sent you the clutch kit back as requested so you should be receiving it within the next few days. As far as the "cold burst" goes that is impossible for that to have happened. I warm the car up properly each and every time I drive it which is only on weekends and our Texas weather has been 80 degrees + for the last few months. The clutch disk and pressure plate failed on the pressure plate side after 700 miles and as I stated earlier it was installed at the dealership by a certified 20+ year GM technician. I really wish you would stand behind your products and make this right.

Thanks,
James

Jason’s final email response: We do stand behind our products, but our warranty does not cover over-revs. It could be a hot over-rev if the disks went over 10,000rpm. I had the GM engineers who designed your clutch analyze it. They knew exactly what the cause of failure was.

Jason Harding
Director of Aftermarket Operations

CLIFFS: KATECH LS9-R CLUTCH KIT LOCKED UP AFTER 700 MILES AND JASON AT KATECH WONT STAND BEHIND HIS PRODUCTS!

MurderZ

Thats interesting. I've heard so many good things about that clutch too. It's crazy that you spend almost 2k on a clutch and they're trying to blame you. Thats not very good customer service at all.

A similar thing happened on ls1gto.com a couple of years ago. Monster had just started making clutches for them and the discs were falling apart only a few hundred miles after install. Monster had a similar response and someone blew up the forums about it. Ever since that Monster fully stands behind their product. I had one in my GTO and thought I had an issue. I called Steve at Monster saying I may have a clutch disc problem and he said "Send it back and I'll ship a brand new clutch kit to you no questions asked"

Hopefully after this they will pick up on their customer service. Thats just ridiculous.


BTW just using Monster clutches as an example. Nothing ended up being wrong with my clutch and they make some great clutches with top class customer service.

THE BLACK WIDOW

Thanks MurderZ! All I asked of Jason at Katech was to replace the disk and pressure plate.

James

Lethal427

Really upset beyond belief to read this, and that I bought the same clutch set up from Katech !!!also, is this another bomb waiting to go off in my new Z06 that I've only had since Feb of this year!!???????? I can only hope that the forum members stand together on these issues!!! good luck!!!

SlowZo6

I had the same thing happen to my (LPE) LS9 clutch. LPE sent me out a brand new clutch and flywheel and slave next day.

Wish you the best of luck buddy.

Link to thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...dragstrip.html

Uncle Meat

Subscribed...

U.M.

walhan_qtr

ok I am getting worried.... sorry not trying to hijack your thread (twice lol) but did any of you guys (THE BLACK WIDOW, SlowZo6, or any other forum member) had a problem shifting at high RPM (5500+ RPM) with the LS9R (or LS9X)???

I really hope Katech will chime in here and fix your issue especially after reading SlowZo6 post where he had the same problem and it was fixed under warranty. I have never heard of any issues with their customer service before so hopefully they will fix this without a problem.

3 Z06ZR1

That sucks! I have the LPE ls-9 too! But it works great and I have no issues
seems like stock only slighty heavier feel! But bites much better than the stock Ls-7. It's defective to do that in only 700 miles!
They need to replace the pressure plate and disc

RamAir972003

Cold burst over speed I have never heard of that looked it up on yahoo nothing comes up. And assuming you had an oil leak why would you install a clutch if your car is leaking oil and second I don't think a car like that anybody would let it leak, plus U would see Burn marks also. They should just send you another one period.

TapOut

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Myself and a lot of people I know run the Katech LS9X clutches without any issues.

Katech is an awesome company, and I've never had any problems dealing with them....and to be honest, I'm kind of shocked at their response so far. For such a large company I would think that a replacement part would have been a quick no brainer. Hopefully they take care of the OP in this situation as it sounds like he did everything properly.

Good luck!

JMBLOWNWS6

OK this looks crazy. I'm sure Jason will reply with there side. Looks nuts friction material is totally gone. When you pulled the bell housing was it full? Is the hardline to your slave broke off? I don't see any oil intrusion at all.

hiznhrz

I used to have only the highest opinion possible of Katech, their engineers, and their products. There is always two sides to a story but the email explanation from Jason and Katech is about as lame as it gets. The benefit of doubt, in my opinion, goes to the customer.

Regardless of the cost of their "high end" products and services this is nothing more than a great example of 2nd rate (at best) customer service.

Tact

This is the proper section for this thread. Waiting on the vendor's reply.

pewter99

pewter99

Jason will be responding soon

Katech_Zach

My first email response regarding the slipping and oil leak was incorrect. That was our initial gut reaction upon seeing the pictures of the part. Upon further review with the engineers who designed the clutch it was very clear to them that they have seen this failure before and know the cause is from an over-rev.

Even if you did not over-rev the engine, the clutch disks can still be over-revved. For example, if you are at wide open throttle and on a second to third shift you accidentally go into first but you realize what you've done and you don't let the clutch out, the trans, torque tube, input shaft and therefore clutch disks are still at a high rate of speed. Or, if you downshift at too high an rpm in anticipation of a turn you are still over-revving the clutch disks. This limit is 10,000 rpm when hot, but significantly less when cold. It wouldn't matter if there was 700 miles or 70,000 miles on the clutch, it will happen if over-revved.

I empathize with your problem, but an over-rev is still a mistake. It doesn't make good business sense to warranty clutches for over-revs any more than it does warrantying an engine for an over-rev. If there were a defect in the manufacturing of the clutch or flywheel it would be replaced no problem, but not for an over-rev. I agree that the benefit of the doubt goes to the customer, but in this case there is no doubt it was user error by over-revving.

THE BLACK WIDOW

Glad to hear that they took care of you!!!! Apparently Katech doesn't stand behind their products and as I said before all I wanted was a new disk and pressure plate replaced.

James

Tact

Vendor responded.