Keisler transmissions [Dispute]
06-12-2012, 12:49 PM
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Keisler transmissions [Dispute]
Keisler Engineering sold me an RS500 transmission at the recommendation of my race shop. The transmission was not delivered for 9 months. I wanted to cancel the order, but was advised by my shop to hang in there because these were good guys. I finally received it with incorrect parts and two series of exchanges were required to get the proper parts. However, the original clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel which they sent were defective. With great reluctance they replaced the cluth and pressure plate only. When they refused to take care of the $480 of labor, I complained to Shafi Keisler. He refused to pay the labor, but did issue a refund of $134.00 for not sending a new flywheel. During the conversation with him, he let it slip that their transmission was REMANUFACTURED. I was furious to learn that I had been duped into purchasing a REMANUFACTURED tansmission at the cost of a new transmission such as a Tremec. If you look at their website, you will find absolutely no reference to the fact that it is a REMANUFACTURED unit. Everything clearly implies new. Even my race shop did not believe it until I sent communication from Keisler attesting to the fact that they are REMANUFACTURED.
On Friday, they agreed to do almost anything to make me happy, but on Monday, they refused to honor their committments made on Friday.
Since they offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee on their web site, they are denying me warrany service.
They claim that they try to make it clear that the RS400 - RS600 so called "Perfect Fit" transmissions are REMANUFACTURED. I have asked them repeatedly to put that in bold print next to the picture of the transmission on their site. They have made no effort to do that, so I assume they wish to prortray this as a new unit. I believe I was induced to purchase their transmission with improper and deceptive advertising information.
On Friday, they agreed to do almost anything to make me happy, but on Monday, they refused to honor their committments made on Friday.
Since they offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee on their web site, they are denying me warrany service.
They claim that they try to make it clear that the RS400 - RS600 so called "Perfect Fit" transmissions are REMANUFACTURED. I have asked them repeatedly to put that in bold print next to the picture of the transmission on their site. They have made no effort to do that, so I assume they wish to prortray this as a new unit. I believe I was induced to purchase their transmission with improper and deceptive advertising information.
Last edited by original; 06-12-2012 at 05:56 PM. Reason: clarification
06-12-2012, 01:53 PM
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you are gonna have to do better than 1 post and no supporting documentation or this is just a rant
06-12-2012, 09:41 PM
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Let me just say that I am sitting at home in my pj's, it's after 9:30 p.m. and this has me fired up enough to post.
The kit in question was sold to an install shop, we never had any direct communication with the customer at any time. Kit worked as advertised and then the customer complained of clutch issues, shop called us, we ended up diagnosing that the flywheel (which was purchased from us) was out of spec. The most expedient fix was to have the shop re-surface the flywheel and get their customer back on the road. We reimbursed the shop for 1/2 of the cost of a new flywheel which is significantly more than the cost to re-surface said flywheel.
We assumed this issue to be resolved. The owner at the car never reached out to us other than to inquire about the status of the refund on the flywheel. We later ran across a series of spam posts by this individual on ALL of our youtube videos as well as numerous aftermarket sites. I asked the shop to forward my contact info to him to see if we could resolve this issue. We discussed his displeasure, and he asked to be paid back for the labor involved.
The kit in question was sold to an install shop, we never had any direct communication with the customer at any time. Kit worked as advertised and then the customer complained of clutch issues, shop called us, we ended up diagnosing that the flywheel (which was purchased from us) was out of spec. The most expedient fix was to have the shop re-surface the flywheel and get their customer back on the road. We reimbursed the shop for 1/2 of the cost of a new flywheel which is significantly more than the cost to re-surface said flywheel.
We assumed this issue to be resolved. The owner at the car never reached out to us other than to inquire about the status of the refund on the flywheel. We later ran across a series of spam posts by this individual on ALL of our youtube videos as well as numerous aftermarket sites. I asked the shop to forward my contact info to him to see if we could resolve this issue. We discussed his displeasure, and he asked to be paid back for the labor involved.
06-12-2012, 09:52 PM
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Simple enough request, even though our purchase terms and conditions clearly state that we cannot be responsible for labor costs as things could get ugly quite quickly if an install shop didn't know what they were doing. In short HUGE LIABILITY. I offered to go above and beyond to refund the labor cost, if he would simply cease his rampant digital campaign against us, and eliminate the massive string of comments posted everywhere. He declined. We never mis-lead him intentionally, as a matter of fact we never spoke with him directly at all until I reached out to him to see what we could do. After he refused to cease, we refused to refund. He sent another e-mail asking for even more money and threatening escalated posting.
Seriously guys, we are a small company, and I take my job very seriously to the point that things like this affect me personally. I have 3 kids, a wife, a mortgage, and a dog. I don't work for Darth Vader, and Keisler Engineering isn't some huge corporate entity that needs to be taken down a notch.
Seriously guys, we are a small company, and I take my job very seriously to the point that things like this affect me personally. I have 3 kids, a wife, a mortgage, and a dog. I don't work for Darth Vader, and Keisler Engineering isn't some huge corporate entity that needs to be taken down a notch.
Last edited by KeislerChris; 06-12-2012 at 10:05 PM. Reason: spelling error
06-12-2012, 10:02 PM
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One last thing, his complaint initially was over the labor costs and only eventually turned into a complaint about whether or not his trans was re-manufactured when he didn't have any traction on the labor issue.
so I assume they wish to portray this as a new unit. I believe I was induced to purchase their transmission with improper and deceptive advertising information.
Seriously?
How can someone deceive you if they never get to speak to you? After 6 years in the Navy as a submarine Fire Control Technician, I'd like to think that my integrity is pretty high...
Rant over.
so I assume they wish to portray this as a new unit. I believe I was induced to purchase their transmission with improper and deceptive advertising information.
Seriously?
How can someone deceive you if they never get to speak to you? After 6 years in the Navy as a submarine Fire Control Technician, I'd like to think that my integrity is pretty high... Rant over.
06-12-2012, 10:50 PM
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Never worked out anything with the shop
It is interesting that Mr. Keisler's memory on this changes on a regular basis. He was the one who revealed to me accidentally, that his transmisions are remanufactured. He did that when I called to complain that no resolution was forthcoming in his dealing with the shop. He offered absolutely nothing to the speed shop. His employee, Chris Hale, flat refused any refund whatsoever. At the time, I tried to correct this, I was out another $480 when all I did was try to buy a new transmission and got a bad one.
I suppose that Mr. Keisler does not remember threatening a law suit against my race shop over this.
I suppose he does not remember that he caused a new problem by telling me I had bought, not a new transmission, but a remanufactured one.
I suppose he has decided to continue to hide that information from people buying his transmissions since he has not posted anything on his site to clarify this. I said, post that on your site and let's see how many people will pay $6,000 for your transmissions.
I suppose he does not know that his employee, Chris Hale offered to unconditionally pay the labor portion on Friday and by Monday refused to pay the labor.
If he is the honest forthright guy he claims to be, then he should honor his 100% satisfaction guarantee and post on his site that the transmissions are remanufactured. If it is true that they are remanufactured and you are the good guy you claim to be, what is the problem with telling the people up front. At least let us decide based on clearly presented information. If other people want to pay new prices for used stuff, then you luck out, but why are you leading people to believe they are buying new? Personally, I would not have purchased your transmission if I had known it was not new and I would not have purchased it if I had known I would be socked another $480 because you sent defective parts.
I suppose that Mr. Keisler does not remember threatening a law suit against my race shop over this.
I suppose he does not remember that he caused a new problem by telling me I had bought, not a new transmission, but a remanufactured one.
I suppose he has decided to continue to hide that information from people buying his transmissions since he has not posted anything on his site to clarify this. I said, post that on your site and let's see how many people will pay $6,000 for your transmissions.
I suppose he does not know that his employee, Chris Hale offered to unconditionally pay the labor portion on Friday and by Monday refused to pay the labor.
If he is the honest forthright guy he claims to be, then he should honor his 100% satisfaction guarantee and post on his site that the transmissions are remanufactured. If it is true that they are remanufactured and you are the good guy you claim to be, what is the problem with telling the people up front. At least let us decide based on clearly presented information. If other people want to pay new prices for used stuff, then you luck out, but why are you leading people to believe they are buying new? Personally, I would not have purchased your transmission if I had known it was not new and I would not have purchased it if I had known I would be socked another $480 because you sent defective parts.
06-12-2012, 11:09 PM
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Additionally, I would like to make it clear that I had to contact Mr. Keisler directly to attempt to get a refund labor for something that was not my fault or the fault of the race shop that installed the transmission. Had he paid the labor at that time, I would have gone off believing that I had a new transmission. My race shop was also unaware that the transmission was not new. Additional race shops in my area have looked at his website and they were certain that this was a new transmission. His refusal to honor his 100% satisfaction guarantee has caused the escalation in the problem. He refuses to be honest with his customers and he would rather fight than do the right thing.
06-13-2012, 08:45 AM
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I am the not Mr. Keisler, I am the aforementioned employee, Chris Hale, and I think we have a no-win situation here. Initial request for refund on labor was refused because it is stated in our terms and conditions that we do not cover shop labor, period. Mr. John Wayne Tucker has taken some artistic license with the facts:
when all I did was try to buy a new transmission and got a bad one.
The quality of his transmission was never in question and he has stated that it operates as advertised.
I suppose he does not know that his employee, Chris Hale offered to unconditionally pay the labor portion on Friday and by Monday refused to pay the labor.
There was never an unconditional portion to this refund, as I stated below, we politely asked that Mr. Tucker cease spamming our site and others, he declined, so we declined to refund.
If other people want to pay new prices for used stuff, then you luck out, but why are you leading people to believe they are buying new? Personally, I would not have purchased your transmission if I had known it was not new and I would not have purchased it if I had known I would be socked another $480 because you sent defective parts.
I have never represented this line as anything other than re-manufactured, but as I said before, Mr. Tucker and I had no direct contact before or during the sale, so there you go.
I mention my time in the service to emphasize the level of integrity that I have as both a man and a salesperson. I shoot straight and always have, I don't candy coat anything, and I certainly would never misrepresent anything to make a quick buck as doing that almost invariably ends up in a messy scenario like this.
At this point, I am going to respectfully withdraw from this conversation as it simply is un-constructive and serves no good purpose.
when all I did was try to buy a new transmission and got a bad one.
The quality of his transmission was never in question and he has stated that it operates as advertised.
I suppose he does not know that his employee, Chris Hale offered to unconditionally pay the labor portion on Friday and by Monday refused to pay the labor.
There was never an unconditional portion to this refund, as I stated below, we politely asked that Mr. Tucker cease spamming our site and others, he declined, so we declined to refund.
If other people want to pay new prices for used stuff, then you luck out, but why are you leading people to believe they are buying new? Personally, I would not have purchased your transmission if I had known it was not new and I would not have purchased it if I had known I would be socked another $480 because you sent defective parts.
I have never represented this line as anything other than re-manufactured, but as I said before, Mr. Tucker and I had no direct contact before or during the sale, so there you go.
I mention my time in the service to emphasize the level of integrity that I have as both a man and a salesperson. I shoot straight and always have, I don't candy coat anything, and I certainly would never misrepresent anything to make a quick buck as doing that almost invariably ends up in a messy scenario like this.
At this point, I am going to respectfully withdraw from this conversation as it simply is un-constructive and serves no good purpose.
06-13-2012, 10:39 AM
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Name calling
There you have it folks. This is a company that resorts to name calling when they have a disatisfied customer.
Chris Hale has also lied about the transmission working fine when installed. My race shop called him because the transmission had tremendous chatter and shaking immediately. Their solution was to drive it 500 miles and it will go away. Trying to go up a hill caused clutch burning, shaking and lurching. Getting into the garage caused the same problems. Clutch chatter, entire car shaking, improper acceleration. Then, when I came back for this to be fixed, they originally refused to provide correct parts. Finally, Chris Hale refused to send parts and finally sent the very minimum parts he could. When the shop called him for labor reimbursement, he absolutely refused. That is why I contacted Mr. Keisler directly.
And Jeff, get your facts correct. I am a minister and a teacher.
Yes, I bought a 1965 Mustang transmission. Don't need one for my Corvette, but I sure won't be buying yours for it when I do.
Simple decision in my mind to anyone following this. The company would rather go out of business and call their customer names than honor their 100% satisfaction guarantee.
Unless I am mistaken, Jeff has just advised me that I have no warranty at all now. How do you like that for a good business practice?
Check this website http://www.keislerauto.com/vmchk/for...page_tabs.html and tell me if anyone can find anything that says this is a remanufactured transmission. But you will find displayed prominently that they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. I wonder what that means to Keisler Engineering? Since they do not indicate anywhere that this is remanufactured on their website, on their Facebook page or on their numerous videos on YouTube, how do they come to the conclusion that everyone knows this fact?
Chris Hale has also lied about the transmission working fine when installed. My race shop called him because the transmission had tremendous chatter and shaking immediately. Their solution was to drive it 500 miles and it will go away. Trying to go up a hill caused clutch burning, shaking and lurching. Getting into the garage caused the same problems. Clutch chatter, entire car shaking, improper acceleration. Then, when I came back for this to be fixed, they originally refused to provide correct parts. Finally, Chris Hale refused to send parts and finally sent the very minimum parts he could. When the shop called him for labor reimbursement, he absolutely refused. That is why I contacted Mr. Keisler directly.
And Jeff, get your facts correct. I am a minister and a teacher.
Yes, I bought a 1965 Mustang transmission. Don't need one for my Corvette, but I sure won't be buying yours for it when I do.
Simple decision in my mind to anyone following this. The company would rather go out of business and call their customer names than honor their 100% satisfaction guarantee.
Unless I am mistaken, Jeff has just advised me that I have no warranty at all now. How do you like that for a good business practice?
Check this website http://www.keislerauto.com/vmchk/for...page_tabs.html and tell me if anyone can find anything that says this is a remanufactured transmission. But you will find displayed prominently that they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. I wonder what that means to Keisler Engineering? Since they do not indicate anywhere that this is remanufactured on their website, on their Facebook page or on their numerous videos on YouTube, how do they come to the conclusion that everyone knows this fact?
Last edited by original; 06-13-2012 at 10:45 AM. Reason: spelling
06-13-2012, 11:15 AM
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http://www.johnwaynetucker.com/congress/contact_us.html
Here's a the chain of e-mails in all its ugly glory:
As you can see from the below message, companies who might have promoted your product are dropping you as a vendor. There is another company in St. Louis (Yesterday’s Chevrolet’s) who had recommended your transmissions to a friend of mine, but now says he will never recommend your product. Expect many more companies to come on board with this concept.
John Wayne Tucker
From: tom@camdupracing.com [mailto:tom@camdupracing.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 11:53 PM
To: john@johnwaynetucker.com
Subject: RE: Refund
sorry to see they are doing you this way john. i assure you i will hesitate to order from them ever again. they had a good reputation as far as i knew.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Refund
From: "John Wayne Tucker" <john@johnwaynetucker.com>
Date: Mon, June 11, 2012 1:04 pm
To: "'Chris Hale'" <chris.hale@keislerauto.com>
Cc: "Tom Heaney" <tom@camdupracing.com>
I only stopped the postings because you had become reasonable and assured me that the matter would be taken care of. I am just trying to find out if we have reached a resolution or not. I do not make threats; but I do take action.
Once again, I was only concerned about the labor, that was $480.00. Had you taken care of that, I would never have known the transmissions were remanufactured. That created a bigger problem and still you are refused to honor your 100% satisfaction guarantee. I currently expect the labor to be paid as well as a refund of $1,000 on the price of the transmission. I expect it to be resolved by the end of business today. There was no stipulation or concern when you agreed to provide the labor refund on Friday. Obviously, there is nothing that I can trust about this company. People planning on doing business with you should know what they are getting into. This is not a company that deals honestly with it's customers and does not intend to produce happy and satisfied customers.
As I told Mr. Keisler, people ask me at every show, “How do you like your Keisler 5 speed?” What do you want me to tell them? I can tell them the whole story or I can say there were some bumps, but they took care of it. That question still remains. What do you want me to tell people? I think I should tell them the truth. If you want people to have a positive opinion of your company and product, then you will have to do what it takes for them to have that opinion.
Let me be perfectly clear. I have posted information on a massive number of places. I could not possibly find all of them and many of the postings and e-mails could not be retracted or removed. Also note that I have asked automotive businesses who might have ordered and installed your transmissions to look at your web site and tell me if they saw any indication that they are remanufactured. All of them said as far as they could tell, they are New, not remanufactured and that they would not be willing to install or sell such a transmission because they could end up losing money if any repairs needed to be made and they thought it would be dishonest of them to represent the transmission as new. They say they would tell any potential customer that the transmission is remanufactured before accepting any orders.
So, once again; what do you want me to do? Tell the story for you, or go away satisfied?
John Wayne Tucker
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hale [mailto:chris.hale@keislerauto.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:17 PM
To: john@johnwaynetucker.com
Cc: 'Tom Heaney'; 'Shafi Keisler'
Subject: RE: Refund
Mr. Tucker,
As we had requested earlier, we will be more than happy to reimburse you with the simple caveat that you remove the negative postings you had placed in a great many places on the internet. You declined as it would be "impossible. Those posts are everywhere. I din't even know all the places they appear.
. Unless I'm mistaken, you are now threatening to do more of the same which ultimately would lead to little if any resolution and result in more negative feelings. I find this approach counter-productive
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wayne Tucker [mailto:john@johnwaynetucker.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:53 PM
To: 'Chris Hale'
Cc: Tom Heaney
Subject: RE: Refund
Mr. Hale,
Please advise where we stand on the refund and reimbursement for having purchased a remanufactured item at new costs. As indicated, I have posted in many places, sent e-mails and sent out information to too many places to remember where. I stopped when you agreed to make me a satisfied customer.
I
am still not satisfied. Should I resume posting my dissatisfaction in the massive number of places left on the Internet?
John Wayne Tucker
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hale [mailto:chris.hale@keislerauto.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 8:23 AM
To: john@johnwaynetucker.com
Subject: RE: Refund
Mr. Tucker,
I will submit this to be processed for a refund. There is a stipulation on this refund however, and that is that you clean up the negative comments that you posted about us on the internet. Once this occurs, we will move on with the process. Please let me know when you have finished so we can close the books on this matter.
Kindest Regards,
Christopher Hale
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wayne Tucker [mailto:john@johnwaynetucker.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 12:50 PM
To: 'Chris Hale'
Subject: RE: Refund
Dear Mr. Hale,
Please find, attached, a copy of the bill for repairing my transmission.
Please note that you paid $134.98 leaving me with $345.02 paid from my pocket. I had intended to include the bill for the boot and replacement, but perhaps, that is unreasonable.
I believe, however, that a refund to reflect the cost of a remanufactured, as opposed to a new transmission (as I fully believed I was purchasing) is entirely reasonable and I am asking that compensation be provided for that issue.
Thank you for your assistance,
John Wayne Tucker
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hale [mailto:chris.hale@keislerauto.com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 11:24 AM
To: john@johnwaynetucker.com
Cc: 'Tom Heaney'
Subject: RE: Refund
Mr. Tucker,
I have reached out to Tom and asked him to convey my contact information to you so that we can reach an amicable solution. Could you please contact me at your earliest convenience, I have no contact method for you other than e-mail.
Kindest Regards,
Christopher Hale
Here's a the chain of e-mails in all its ugly glory:
As you can see from the below message, companies who might have promoted your product are dropping you as a vendor. There is another company in St. Louis (Yesterday’s Chevrolet’s) who had recommended your transmissions to a friend of mine, but now says he will never recommend your product. Expect many more companies to come on board with this concept.
John Wayne Tucker
From: tom@camdupracing.com [mailto:tom@camdupracing.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 11:53 PM
To: john@johnwaynetucker.com
Subject: RE: Refund
sorry to see they are doing you this way john. i assure you i will hesitate to order from them ever again. they had a good reputation as far as i knew.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Refund
From: "John Wayne Tucker" <john@johnwaynetucker.com>
Date: Mon, June 11, 2012 1:04 pm
To: "'Chris Hale'" <chris.hale@keislerauto.com>
Cc: "Tom Heaney" <tom@camdupracing.com>
I only stopped the postings because you had become reasonable and assured me that the matter would be taken care of. I am just trying to find out if we have reached a resolution or not. I do not make threats; but I do take action.
Once again, I was only concerned about the labor, that was $480.00. Had you taken care of that, I would never have known the transmissions were remanufactured. That created a bigger problem and still you are refused to honor your 100% satisfaction guarantee. I currently expect the labor to be paid as well as a refund of $1,000 on the price of the transmission. I expect it to be resolved by the end of business today. There was no stipulation or concern when you agreed to provide the labor refund on Friday. Obviously, there is nothing that I can trust about this company. People planning on doing business with you should know what they are getting into. This is not a company that deals honestly with it's customers and does not intend to produce happy and satisfied customers.
As I told Mr. Keisler, people ask me at every show, “How do you like your Keisler 5 speed?” What do you want me to tell them? I can tell them the whole story or I can say there were some bumps, but they took care of it. That question still remains. What do you want me to tell people? I think I should tell them the truth. If you want people to have a positive opinion of your company and product, then you will have to do what it takes for them to have that opinion.
Let me be perfectly clear. I have posted information on a massive number of places. I could not possibly find all of them and many of the postings and e-mails could not be retracted or removed. Also note that I have asked automotive businesses who might have ordered and installed your transmissions to look at your web site and tell me if they saw any indication that they are remanufactured. All of them said as far as they could tell, they are New, not remanufactured and that they would not be willing to install or sell such a transmission because they could end up losing money if any repairs needed to be made and they thought it would be dishonest of them to represent the transmission as new. They say they would tell any potential customer that the transmission is remanufactured before accepting any orders.
So, once again; what do you want me to do? Tell the story for you, or go away satisfied?
John Wayne Tucker
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hale [mailto:chris.hale@keislerauto.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:17 PM
To: john@johnwaynetucker.com
Cc: 'Tom Heaney'; 'Shafi Keisler'
Subject: RE: Refund
Mr. Tucker,
As we had requested earlier, we will be more than happy to reimburse you with the simple caveat that you remove the negative postings you had placed in a great many places on the internet. You declined as it would be "impossible. Those posts are everywhere. I din't even know all the places they appear.
. Unless I'm mistaken, you are now threatening to do more of the same which ultimately would lead to little if any resolution and result in more negative feelings. I find this approach counter-productive
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wayne Tucker [mailto:john@johnwaynetucker.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:53 PM
To: 'Chris Hale'
Cc: Tom Heaney
Subject: RE: Refund
Mr. Hale,
Please advise where we stand on the refund and reimbursement for having purchased a remanufactured item at new costs. As indicated, I have posted in many places, sent e-mails and sent out information to too many places to remember where. I stopped when you agreed to make me a satisfied customer.
I
am still not satisfied. Should I resume posting my dissatisfaction in the massive number of places left on the Internet?
John Wayne Tucker
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hale [mailto:chris.hale@keislerauto.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 8:23 AM
To: john@johnwaynetucker.com
Subject: RE: Refund
Mr. Tucker,
I will submit this to be processed for a refund. There is a stipulation on this refund however, and that is that you clean up the negative comments that you posted about us on the internet. Once this occurs, we will move on with the process. Please let me know when you have finished so we can close the books on this matter.
Kindest Regards,
Christopher Hale
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wayne Tucker [mailto:john@johnwaynetucker.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 12:50 PM
To: 'Chris Hale'
Subject: RE: Refund
Dear Mr. Hale,
Please find, attached, a copy of the bill for repairing my transmission.
Please note that you paid $134.98 leaving me with $345.02 paid from my pocket. I had intended to include the bill for the boot and replacement, but perhaps, that is unreasonable.
I believe, however, that a refund to reflect the cost of a remanufactured, as opposed to a new transmission (as I fully believed I was purchasing) is entirely reasonable and I am asking that compensation be provided for that issue.
Thank you for your assistance,
John Wayne Tucker
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hale [mailto:chris.hale@keislerauto.com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 11:24 AM
To: john@johnwaynetucker.com
Cc: 'Tom Heaney'
Subject: RE: Refund
Mr. Tucker,
I have reached out to Tom and asked him to convey my contact information to you so that we can reach an amicable solution. Could you please contact me at your earliest convenience, I have no contact method for you other than e-mail.
Kindest Regards,
Christopher Hale
06-13-2012, 11:26 AM
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For the mechanically challenged among us, the chattering was caused by the interface between the pressure plate, clutch disc and flywheel, not the transmission.
If you feel your claims truly have merit, there are proper channels to pursue satisfaction, but I can assure you this is not one of those unless you are looking to create dissent and mis-information.
https://www.facebook.com/johnwaynetucker
Is this not you? So, in essence you ARE a teacher and a minister and a politician. Not really much of a lie is it?
If you feel your claims truly have merit, there are proper channels to pursue satisfaction, but I can assure you this is not one of those unless you are looking to create dissent and mis-information.
https://www.facebook.com/johnwaynetucker
Is this not you? So, in essence you ARE a teacher and a minister and a politician. Not really much of a lie is it?
Last edited by KeislerChris; 06-13-2012 at 11:31 AM. Reason: error
06-13-2012, 11:35 AM
#13
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Patience
I suppose I have to wonder why you did not post the threatening letter you sent to my race shop. And why didn't you post a transcript of all the conversations you had with them where you refused to do anything to correct the problems. I have been more than patient with you.
It is interesting that you begged my patience for the full 9 months it took you to get the transmission delivered to me.
Then you begged my indulgence when it took an additional month to work out all the wrong parts that you sent.
Then you begged my indulgence by requiring me to drive the car for months hoping that the problems would go away.
Then you immediately turned nasty when a refund was requested.
Then you begged my acceptance when you revealed to me that I had purchased a remanufactured transmission.
Now you are immediately angry with me for taking the only course of action left to me.
I am letting people know what kind of company they might potentially deal with. That is the reason for these forums.
People don't like to get ripped off.
I don't think people want to deal with a company that calls them names, ignores their problems with your product and refuses to honor the clearly posted 100% guarantee.
Of course, I suppose I could be wrong. Perhaps people do want to buy from a company like you. If so, you are the luckiest people in the world.
It is interesting that you begged my patience for the full 9 months it took you to get the transmission delivered to me.
Then you begged my indulgence when it took an additional month to work out all the wrong parts that you sent.
Then you begged my indulgence by requiring me to drive the car for months hoping that the problems would go away.
Then you immediately turned nasty when a refund was requested.
Then you begged my acceptance when you revealed to me that I had purchased a remanufactured transmission.
Now you are immediately angry with me for taking the only course of action left to me.
I am letting people know what kind of company they might potentially deal with. That is the reason for these forums.
People don't like to get ripped off.
I don't think people want to deal with a company that calls them names, ignores their problems with your product and refuses to honor the clearly posted 100% guarantee.
Of course, I suppose I could be wrong. Perhaps people do want to buy from a company like you. If so, you are the luckiest people in the world.
06-13-2012, 11:45 AM
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Your post on the chattering
I understand what caused the chattering. You sent the parts that were defective, however and were reluctant to replace them. The problem was not mine and it was not the problem of the race shop. It was that you sent defective parts. Therefore, it is not our responsibility to pay for the problem.
Who would buy anything with the expectation that the company could provide bad parts and refuse to correct that problem. Yeah, every time I go to the store to buy something, I expect to pay significant additional money because I expect the item to not work properly. We all do that all of the time and are never upset about it.
Who would buy anything with the expectation that the company could provide bad parts and refuse to correct that problem. Yeah, every time I go to the store to buy something, I expect to pay significant additional money because I expect the item to not work properly. We all do that all of the time and are never upset about it.
06-13-2012, 11:48 AM
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Well Jeff, all I got was dirt from you and you are the name caller. So, I am not surprised you are done. You were done as soon as you got my money.
06-13-2012, 11:49 AM
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“All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take.” -Mohandas Gandhi
Back to basics: we offered to satisfy based upon what you believe was owed to you, we offered to compensate you for the labor provided you cease this nonsense. You refused. Seems like an open and shut case to me.
I bear no ill will here, I simply wish the negativity to stop, as it helps not one whit and distracts from more important things. I've nothing further to say on the matter in this forum, this whole thing has gotten a bit tactless for my taste.
Back to basics: we offered to satisfy based upon what you believe was owed to you, we offered to compensate you for the labor provided you cease this nonsense. You refused. Seems like an open and shut case to me.
I bear no ill will here, I simply wish the negativity to stop, as it helps not one whit and distracts from more important things. I've nothing further to say on the matter in this forum, this whole thing has gotten a bit tactless for my taste.
06-13-2012, 11:57 AM
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The following is a copy of an e-mail from my race shop which accurately describes the entire situation:
kit was sold directly to mr customer and delivered to shop. shop spent $0 on kit and made exactly $0 profit on kit. shop only charged labor to install kit.
kit was supposed to be ready in 60-90 days. yet i think it took like 8 or 9 months.
kit came with wrong clutch parts. they were apparently for a chevy, not a ford. new parts were sent.
kit came with a defective clutch master cylinder. new parts were sent.
once all was together vehicle exhibited a shudder in the clutch. advised keisler. request put some miles on it to see if it goes away. customer did that. problem did not go away.
customer returns to remedy shudder. disassemble and inspect for cause. found faulty pressure plate causing uneven clamping force resulting in localized matching hot spots on flywheel and pressure plate.
resurfaced flywheel (result of the problem, not the cause) and found it to have minimal runout and required only a .005 clean up pass on the surface.
again, new parts were sent. a replacement pressure plate and disc. installed the pressure plate but not the disc (his disc was fine and the new disc was a different type, too agressive) and test-ok. the clutch shudder issue is now resolved. request from keisler on mr customer's behalf more than once to help with the labor. since this was clearly a parts issue and not an installation issue. however, keisler eventually declined.
shop holds the repair order open for a month to make sure with the customer that the clutch issue is cured. it is.
during that time mr customer contacted keisler and asked for some help on the repair cost. keisler ended up issuing a partial refund of approximately $135 to the shop on mr customer's behalf. it was during that time when mr customer, talking to the owner of keisler, that the remanufactured issue came up.
contact keisler again to ask for some help on the remaining labor for mr customer. again the answer was no.
present mr customer with the remaining balance of the repair bill for disassemble, inspect parts, resurface flywheel, reassemble, road test, etc. the total cost for that repair order was $480. mr customer paid the balance. mr customer not happy.
this started out as a customer with a very nice car wanting to upgrade his transmission to a new 5 speed. keisler's kit looked very appealing based on their internet advertising. once the order was placed he had to wait a very long time for the parts. once they got delivered there were issues with the parts. the customer was without his car for a longer than expected amount of time. this clutch issue was just the last kick in the pants for this guy. he paid good money for some, not all, bad/incorrect parts. i can see why he is not "100% satisfied".
kit was sold directly to mr customer and delivered to shop. shop spent $0 on kit and made exactly $0 profit on kit. shop only charged labor to install kit.
kit was supposed to be ready in 60-90 days. yet i think it took like 8 or 9 months.
kit came with wrong clutch parts. they were apparently for a chevy, not a ford. new parts were sent.
kit came with a defective clutch master cylinder. new parts were sent.
once all was together vehicle exhibited a shudder in the clutch. advised keisler. request put some miles on it to see if it goes away. customer did that. problem did not go away.
customer returns to remedy shudder. disassemble and inspect for cause. found faulty pressure plate causing uneven clamping force resulting in localized matching hot spots on flywheel and pressure plate.
resurfaced flywheel (result of the problem, not the cause) and found it to have minimal runout and required only a .005 clean up pass on the surface.
again, new parts were sent. a replacement pressure plate and disc. installed the pressure plate but not the disc (his disc was fine and the new disc was a different type, too agressive) and test-ok. the clutch shudder issue is now resolved. request from keisler on mr customer's behalf more than once to help with the labor. since this was clearly a parts issue and not an installation issue. however, keisler eventually declined.
shop holds the repair order open for a month to make sure with the customer that the clutch issue is cured. it is.
during that time mr customer contacted keisler and asked for some help on the repair cost. keisler ended up issuing a partial refund of approximately $135 to the shop on mr customer's behalf. it was during that time when mr customer, talking to the owner of keisler, that the remanufactured issue came up.
contact keisler again to ask for some help on the remaining labor for mr customer. again the answer was no.
present mr customer with the remaining balance of the repair bill for disassemble, inspect parts, resurface flywheel, reassemble, road test, etc. the total cost for that repair order was $480. mr customer paid the balance. mr customer not happy.
this started out as a customer with a very nice car wanting to upgrade his transmission to a new 5 speed. keisler's kit looked very appealing based on their internet advertising. once the order was placed he had to wait a very long time for the parts. once they got delivered there were issues with the parts. the customer was without his car for a longer than expected amount of time. this clutch issue was just the last kick in the pants for this guy. he paid good money for some, not all, bad/incorrect parts. i can see why he is not "100% satisfied".
06-13-2012, 12:01 PM
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What does it mean?
Chris,
Please advise me and any of your potential future customers:
What does 100% satisfaction guarantee mean to you?
Please advise me and any of your potential future customers:
What does 100% satisfaction guarantee mean to you?
06-13-2012, 05:50 PM
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CI 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12
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This complaint thread serves as an example on why Corvetteforum's rules require a factual account of a dispute by the customer and then allow a factual response by the seller and then close the thread to further comment so as to avoid an ensuing dispute as to whose "facts" are superior and to prevent such issues from degenerating into hostility and personal attacks:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...-disputes.html
If the OP and the vendor in this dispute can resolve their issues offline, great. If they are not able to do that, they are welcome to pursue the matter in court. If there are any updates, let us know and we'll add them to this thread.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...-disputes.html
If the OP and the vendor in this dispute can resolve their issues offline, great. If they are not able to do that, they are welcome to pursue the matter in court. If there are any updates, let us know and we'll add them to this thread.
