raztek

I am expecting to be flamed by posting this and will put on the fire suit accordingly. Nevertheless, here goes…

Below are pictures of what at the time were approximately 5 year old CCW SP20s that I bought second hand off a CF member. On a trip home one day (had put about 1500 miles on the wheels by this time), I felt a small vibration while cruising at highway speeds – felt like a wheel balance issue. After getting home, this caught my eye (driver side rear wheel):



I then looked at the other three wheels. On my passenger rear wheel, I saw this:



I was shocked. These are CCW FORGED WHEELS!

My knock off foreign manufactured wheels, driven the exact same way were sitting in my garage and still mint. Took the CCW’s off and put the knock offs back on.

History of the wheel:

1. Made for a C6 Z06 – told it was never tracked – no reason to believe this to be untrue.
2. Wheels were sold to a C5 owner that never tracked his car – no reason to believe this is untrue.
3. Purchased by me from second owner and put on my C5 – upon the first cleaning, you know, when the lovefest is in full effect – cleaned them with a fine tooth comb, each spoke and wheel barrel individually - ANY defect would have been seen at this time – nothing.
4. Used the same hub-centric spacer the prior owner used.
5. Never hit a curb, nor pot hole – nothing different from the use on my knock offs.
6. Put approximately 1500 miles on these wheels (never tracked them), washed them several times and did not see any cracks UNTIL the day I felt the vibration.

I went online and found a couple of threads where 2pc CCW wheels had their face cracked just like mine. Saw that CCW took care of those situations, so was comfortable that should it come to that, they would take care of the issue.

I wanted an impartial assessment as I did not want to be THAT guy who says, it’s not my fault. So, I took the wheels to two reputable rim repair shops and one reputable corvette shop. I was open about the history of the wheels, told them I bought them used and asked if the damage could be a result of abuse/misuse.

Unanimous response was, nope, this was likely a result of a manufacturing defect and I should go back to CCW. I didn’t want to look foolish when calling CCW, so I asked:

1. Are you sure this could not happen by hitting a pothole – response, the crack would be closer to the outside of the wheel (where the rubber meets the rim).
2. Could this be a result of hitting a curb – response was the same as above (note, the rears have no curb rash).
3. Asked could this be a result of the spacers – response – laughed at by all three shops and told if spacers would cause damage like this, the spacer making industry would be non-existent.
4. Torquing was ruled out as I personally observed both the spacer and wheels being mounted using a star pattern, tightened, then torqued at a shop where the mechanic/owner installing them had owned a C5.

Silver Lining: I was lucky to catch this when I did – if the wheel was on the other side, I probably wouldn’t have noticed it and taken the car out again with one of my kids before taking it to a tire shop - as the vibration only felt like an unbalanced wheel. What if I had a catastrophic failure with my 6 yr old in the car at highway speeds? You may have your own view on this post, but folks, please, if you notice a weird feeling in your car, check it out immediately.

From my research, including questions to people that repair wheels for a living, everything pointed to a defect in the rims themselves.

I contacted CCW, talked to John himself – the initial proposed remedy was reasonable but the final proposal left me disheartened, frustrated and upset. This happened last year, and before you ask why post this now, the reason is, it still bothers me and I want to know if I handled the situation wrong. Not looking for “take it as a lesson, you bought them used, too bad for you” - I already know that. My concern is that if that was the case, I should have been given that response from CCW on my first call and at minimum been given an explanation for the failure themselves.

That’s not how it played out. Anyways, this is how things went:

In late August/early September last year, I talked to John, and gave him the history, told him that I was not the original owner, 3rd one in fact, that my car was a C5 and that they were made for a C6 Z06. Explained that I knew I wasn’t entitled to anything, but at the same time, wanted an explanation as to why the rears failed the way they did. After all, if he couldn’t explain it, who could? He did say that it was odd, that it happened on other wheels, asked for pics, perhaps the spacers were a contributory factor, and mentioned that sometimes torqueing could be an issue. To me, this was not an explanation, only hypothesis. After this, he said he would be willing to give me two new rears at his material cost (half the MSRP - $450/wheel was what he stated). I sent him the pics the same day, along with the name of the original owner after getting it from the previous owner who offered to talk to John for me as well and could reach out to the original owner if needed.

John replied by email, having looked up the original owner’s information based on the name I gave him, stating that the wheels were built 5 years ago and were made for a C6 Z06 (I had already told him that). I called him back and he reiterated that the wheels were made for a C6 Z06 and the load on the wheels were not the same – was this an explanation? We had a discussion around wheel dynamics, and in the end, I didn’t push the matter and agreed that the reason for the failure was unclear. If John had ever stated definitively that it was a result of misapplication, I would have ended the discussion there and then, as it would have been my fault for putting them on my C5. And before I get any flames, I told him as much.

Although I am no expert in wheel manufacturing, the discussion we had on wheel dynamics and stresses did not go over my head. I agree misapplication is a possibility, but it is more probable that a defect in the raw material is the root cause of the problem, especially given that I found posts of prior failures almost exactly the same as mine. I didn’t force the issue in any way at all as I wanted a non-confrontational interaction, plus, John had offered a reasonable solution.

He said he needed to see if he had any spare cores (he had offered to replace both wheels at material cost). I questioned whether the finish would match the front wheels (brushed anodized black) and he stated they no longer did anodizing and that even if they did, there would likely be a colour mismatch. He stated that the new wheels would be powder coated/painted or polished/brushed – my choice. As a result, I had to refinish the front two wheels on top of the replacement cost which I was fine with. There was no offer to take care of that for me as a courtesy. I was only quoted the full cost on the CCW site for finishes. He also suggested that I get back to him in October as he was bringing finishing in house, so it would be cheaper and I would have more finishing options. Although surprised that he would want full pop on refinishing, things still seemed reasonable – obviously I understood that I would pay for any shipping back and forth to Canada.

I called him in late October as he had asked. He said, he needed to check to see if he had any cores and that he would call me back.

After a week waiting for a call, I decided to call him. He stated he had not had a chance to look for cores but he’d go look in the back. He came back and said, he was doing inventory as the company was sold to WELD and that he was occupied with whatever transition was happening and asked for some time to go take a look and that he would call me back. I was thinking, he has been aware for more than 2 months of the situation; not only had he not put 2 cores to the side, he hadn’t even checked for them or had one of his employees do it for him?

Another week maybe two goes by, so I called him again. He said he hadn’t yet had a chance to find the cores, but as he had just finished inventory, he would look it up [come on, really?] Said inventory showed he had two cores. He went back to the warehouse and confirmed they were there – woohoo! We then talked about shipping the fronts down as I also wanted him to take a look at them to make sure they were okay – you know, due diligence to make sure the fronts wouldn’t eventually crack too. He said, he could only do a visual inspection. [you mean, the same inspection I did when I bought the wheels in the first place]

We then talked about re-finishing the fronts to match the new rears. No discount was offered, just ship them down and pay the website price for the desired finish. I asked if he could address the curb rash on my fronts (the ones that had no cracks) and John indicated that he could only polish that down, and not brush to match as his machines can’t do that. His alternative suggestions were:

• Attach a vinyl decal around the edge to cover the portion that would no longer have a brushed appearance – I would have to do that myself for all 4 wheels.
• Finish the fronts myself locally. He offered to send me the supplier name and paint colour code he used – I would have to source the paint locally myself [I live in Canada, so what if the paint codes here are different than in the US – there was no offer to include the same paint used on the rears in the box when shipping the replacements to me, even for a fee].

My suggestion was could you not just sand down the entire wheel and repaint when you did the rears? The response was, that it would be more expensive. I asked how much more and was given a price which ended up around $500 for both wheels after shipping. I then joked that given the costs could he not just give me the front two for cost as well. The response I got, was that the “bean counters” would have a problem with that as the front two hadn’t cracked [I found this peculiar, given the fact I have two that had, seemed to me that the fronts would only be a matter of time – either way, I was fine with it].

I then stated that if he sent me rears in standard finish, I could get all 4 done locally cheaper. This way, I would have the same shop do all 4 wheels and the likelihood for colour mismatch would be eliminated. He said that made sense and I told him I would get back to him after looking into it. Remember, the offer on the table was half off MSRP for both rears [what John indicated was his material cost only].

In the interim, I faced a potential job loss and my eldest child was diagnosed with a serious health issue. Last thing on my mind for a couple months were the wheels. Once things stabilized, I reached back out to John.

I explained the reason why it took me a couple months to get back to him and we again went over the details. Remember the cores? Well, he said he needed to see if he had any cores “lying” around and that he needed some time to look. [seriously?]. Was told he only found one and as a result, he was only able to now offer me one wheel at half off MSRP and the other would be the website price. This upset me, but I did not change my demeanour. I asked him about finish options, confirmed the finishing costs and ended the call.

I sent him an email and asked him to confirm the numbers we talked about on the phone via email so that I understood exactly what the costs would be.

After not getting a reply, I sent a long letter explaining my thoughts on how things transpired with him – was not offensive, not abusive, and as frank and open as I have been above [will attach the letter in another post]

I got a one line reply:

“I have tried as much as I can to accomodate you in your situation, and I cannot do any more - John”

Here was the “accommodation”:

1. Half off of one replacement wheel because he had a core “lying” around – I have interpreted this as something he otherwise had no use for
2. Full website MSRP on the other
3. Full price on any finish I chose
4. $125 to sand down each of the fronts
5. Full price on any finish I chose for refinishing the fronts

I responded that I would not be pursuing this accommodation.

The final proposal for both wheels put forth by CCW netted out at a savings of a whopping $106 from what I could get from a reseller - a price where not only the vendor would make profit, but so would CCW. I was dumbfounded. Why string me along?

Perhaps I should have said, I had a C6 Z06, I bought them directly from the original owner who was a great friend and that both his and my car were garage queens – no need to mention the 2nd owner.

Honesty is a fool’s game nowadays I guess.

There was zero follow up as I had to initiate all the discussions – in nearly 6 months, he not only could not set aside cores for me, he wasn’t even aware if he had them! It seems that none of the cores used for ALL other SP20s or other styles using the same core were available.

I will not put the fronts on my car as there was no explanation provided to me by CCW that would suggest that a similar failure was not imminent. I put them up for sale in March, but with the history, they obviously haven’t sold. They do look nice as an art piece on my garage wall as a reminder of my membership into the CCW club.

So why am I posting?

I wanted to handle this directly with CCW and did not want to have the outcome influenced by the Court of Public Opinion – guess I’m old school. However, it has been several months BUT I am still bothered by how CCW treated this situation.

From Day 1 CCW had the option to say, sorry, misuse, you’re on your own. I was fine with that and told John the same (i.e. “I know I’m not the original owner, and know that you are not obligated to do anything for me but I would like to know why the wheels failed” or something to that effect were my words on my first call). I was in effect strung along like Pavlov’s dog. The best remedy that I was offered was “material cost”, which frankly, I don’t believe is half off MSRP [I believe it’s a zero profit price, but not “material cost”/”cost of material only” as I’ve seen John state elsewhere] and full price on everything else.

I guess I am posting to find out if I was off base in thinking that given the circumstances and what to me appears to be a structural flaw that, at minimum, a reasonable offer from CCW should have been replacement of both cracked wheels at cost + at cost price for refinishing the front two + shipping? I NEVER asked for a freebie.

People tell me, “Just buy two new rears, these are kick a$$ wheels”.

My response usually goes like this, “Yes, they are, absolutely GORGEOUS! In fact, I think that my rears failed due to a manufacturing anomaly, but at the same time, I don’t like how things transpired. Oh, and should I get just the rears? Would you trust the fronts with your child sitting in the passenger seat?”

I get one of two responses, silence followed by either a “Nope” or “Well, when you put it that way…”

To me, replacing all four wheels at cost was the fair and right thing to do. If CCW wanted to go above and beyond, that would be at their discretion. In my opinion, they failed miserably given the information provided to me by them as to why my wheels failed. NO ONE at CCW has explained the reason for the catastrophic failure on TWO of their wheels, just, could be… or maybe it was… type responses.

Through this whole circumstance, they didn’t even ask to inspect them – this fact alone blows me away! Maybe they haven’t because they are aware that the root cause is a defect, or maybe it’s because they concluded that it was misapplication – if the latter, then why string me along and at last minute change the initial proposal – makes NO SENSE!

I know there are glowing reviews about CCW wheel performance and customer service. I found little quantifiable evidence of same in my dealings.

For the record, not once did I say, “I can’t afford it”, not once did I raise my voice, or get abusive, not once did I blame CCW. Just laid out the facts/history, as openly as I have here, and let John suggest a solution.

So, how would I have handled the situation if I was CCW (my background includes having been a “bean counter”, rolling out significant Marketing initiatives and setting up a Returns Facility that processed defective/warrantied merchandise at a large retailer):

1. Recognize that the person I was talking to was an individual who was honest.
2. Understand that although he bought used merchandise, that all things being equal, he was acting in good faith.
3. Ask to have the wheels shipped back for inspection at cost to the consumer and agree that if found to be defective, reimburse the shipping fees incurred. Let the consumer decide if he wanted to risk losing out on the shipping cost.
4. Provide a proper explanation demonstrating what specific misuse resulted in the cracks with a detailed explanation of same; failing that, replace them at material cost only, and not just the failed wheels, but all 4 as they were all manufactured at the same time.

The above is the MINIMUM solution I would extend - I am sure I would make a lousy businessman!

I was told that WELD has purchased the company; that normally, John had free reign on how the situation would be rectified, but now CCW had to report to the “bean counters” and the flexibility was not the same. I don’t know if WELD management is aware of my situation, but assume that they are. If there are any competitors who have any thoughts on this blip in the timeline of life, I would welcome their perspective either here or via PM.

Okay, I’m done, going for a run with my refinished C6 factory wheels, installed with a spacer, knock on wood, 5200 miles, no cracks present…

Feel free to flame…

RSbeast

Honestly, I'm amazed he made the offers he did because he literally had NO obligation to you to do so. It sounds like you ran him around to the point of waning his patience and care to help you. Your post is well worded and you seem like an educated person, so what part of any of this should entitle you to free product, services or any discounts?

Seriously I mean that. Why?

You bought second hand wheels for a different vehicle and drug a situation out for a very long time in the business world. I would buy CCWs off him twice just from that sort of customer service. You call him a poor businessman, but what business operates for free? Even the costs were reasonable. Ever sand down a wheel? $125 is cheap. At that you didn't even GIVE him the original business you criticize him for.

The logic here is questionable at best.

raztek

Here is the last communications with CCW/John:

From: Me
To: "info@ccwheel.com" <info@ccwheel.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 12:15 PM
Subject: Replacement of broken rear wheels for C5

Hi John,

Per our conversation, just wanted to confirm the details with you:

Wheel 1: $900 (could be reduced to $450 if you find another core)
Wheel 2: $450
Shipping: $80
Lug Nuts: $20
Total: $1450
Finish: Satin Bronze powder coated

Does the $1450 include tax, if not, how much more would that be?

If you found another core, this amount would be reduced to $1000 (reduced by $450)

If I sent you my front wheels, the cost to powder coat them would be $150/wheel + $80 for shipping

If I went with a standard finish (reduces above by $150 - $75/wheel), did not send in my fronts for refinishing and a second core is found, the amount would be $850

Could you let me know if you are able to find a second core. Once I hear back from you, I will make a decision on how to proceed.

Thanks,
Faraz

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Me
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 5:37 PM
To: CCW Sales
Subject: Re: Replacement of broken rear wheels for C5

Hi John,

I wanted to follow up on my note below as to be honest, I feel let down based on our initial conversation some time back.

As I am not the original owner, I cannot speak with 100% certainty as to how the wheels were used, at the same time, CCW cannot speak with 100% certainty whether there was/was not a defect in the raw core received from the supplier. Unfortunately for me, I am the one left with a pair of wheels that have had a catastrophic failure, which by the Grace of God did not result in me, one of my children, or innocent bystanders, being victims of a serious accident.

I acknowledge that the wheels are not under warranty, that I am the third owner, that a spacer was used, and that you are under no obligation to help me. I am also thankful that you have taken the time to talk to me to this point.

The CCW’s are forged, which based on my non-expert knowledge, means they offer exceptional strength and longevity. Yet, they failed before my cheap, foreign manufactured, cast, 5 year old wheels that are currently back on my car.

What I have been told by the prior owner is that they were never raced and I have no reason to believe otherwise. As for the spacers/torquing contributing to the failure, yes it is a possibility but at the same time, there is an equal likelihood that the root cause was a defect in the original core given to you by your supplier.

I have seen several threads where other CCW wheels failed in a similar manner and the situation was rectified at the cost of material only.
Given this, to me, a reasonable outcome would be one where neither CCW nor I was disadvantaged. It would be unfair for me to expect CCW to not be fully compensated for the cost of replacement wheels. I have never asked for a freebie – suggested it in jest, but never thought that to be a fair option. I have always felt it would be reasonable to expect that I pay your replacement costs and shipping.

If someone came to me with this expectation, I would feel they were being very reasonable. Here’s a quote from you from May 2013 with respect to wheels that had also cracked:

“Some on this thread have insinuated that we don't stand behind [behind out] [our] product. I take offense to that, as these remarks have been made without possession of all [the] of the details due to some significant omissions by ruben, as his posts on this, and other forums, seem to omit the fact that [he] bought a second hand set of 11 year old, well used, race wheels, and was offered the opportunity to update them to current specs for the cost of the metal to make the parts.”

After our initial discussion, I felt that I would be taken care of as you stood behind your quote above and indicated you would replace the rear wheels at cost (50% of list on your website). My remaining concern related to the probability of a similar failure to the front pair of wheels.

Personal circumstances placed following up with you on the back burner (child health and work uncertainties), and I reached back to you just prior to Christmas when you were doing inventory. We talked about my concerns with the front wheels, along with the need to match the finishes given the fronts had years of wear on them. I can’t remember when, but you also mentioned that you were bringing finishing in-house, which would allow the cost of finishing to be minimized. We left that discussion with you offering to finish/refinish at cost materials if I chose to ship them down to you. You did have concerns about your ability to correct the curb rash and recommended some options. I indicated that I would look at local repair shops to understand the costs of finishing all four wheels where I live.

Per our conversation last week, it seems that things have changed:

• One wheel would be at $450 as you were able to find an unused core in the shop
• The other would cost $900 and if I went with the standard finish it would be reduced to $825.

This amount for the second wheel concerned me and I decided to do some research. I found this same wheel as part of a package at xxxxxx. Adjusting for the effective cost for one wheel it would cost $794 through xxxxxx (I can share how I arrived at this at your request). This is LESS than what you quoted in our last discussion. This is very disheartening.

I realize that you now have to report into WELD management, but I fail to understand why they would be opposed to a solution that recovers the cost of the wheels while at the same time creating a great customer experience. The solution would maintain the strong customer service and reputation you have built over the years and what most definitely would have been factored in as a Goodwill component in their analysis and decision to purchase your company. It makes no sense to me from a business perspective to not allow you to handle this situation as you have repeatedly done in the past.

Given this, I will not be moving forward with the latest solution as it would leave a bad taste. The “right” solution is to offer something reasonable and fair to both parties; not one that leverages something lying around in the shop. Definitely not one where you are asking for more than what one of your resellers is willing to sell the same item for – a price where not only you make your profit, but so does the reseller.

What happened to “for the cost of the metal to make the parts”?

There was and still is an opportunity for CCW and WELD to show your hard-earned customers that although you will no longer be running the show in 8 months, that they will be in good hands. That CCW’s superior customer service will be maintained by WELD once you fully hand the keys of your company over to them.

As a former bean counter supporting a Marketing team, there is definitely a significant dollar value associated with a potential true Goodwill story that I would be more than happy to share with my fellow Corvette enthusiasts and Forum members.

I do look forward to a response from you and will assume that if I do not get one after a week, that your current solution will stand as is.
Thanks for your time and patience. I appreciate your willingness to chat with me during what is likely a very challenging transition phase over to WELD.

Thanks,
Faraz

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From: CCW Sales <info@ccwheel.com>
To: Me
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2016 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Replacement of broken rear wheels for C5

I have tried as much as I can to accomodate you in your situation, and I cannot do any more

john

RSbeast

CCW was also very much purchased by Weld. If you think that change of hands doesn't change day to day practices or the ability to fudge a number or give things away you are delusional. Protocol goes right up the chain and if he's not on top; he's not going to put himself in harm just to do you a favor he doesn't owe you.

raztek

Thank you for your feedback. As stated, I am looking for clarity by posting here. I pose this question to you.

A manufacturer issues a recall because of a manufacturing defect consumers complained about. As a second or third owner, am I not entitled to have it repaired or the situation rectified?

No one has stated unequivocally that there was no manufacturing defect - if John had, as stated above, I would have ended the discussion with him, there and then - he offered the solution, not me.

I also mentioned that I did not just blindly contact CCW, I reached out to wheel repair facilities and was told that misapplication was likely NOT the reason for the failure. Again, John had the opportunity to address whether I was misinformed. If in fact, I was misinformed, then again, end of discussion.

Finally, I did not hassle John, I responded based on our interactions and mutual discussions/agreements.

Shakeydeal

Sorry to hear about your experience. However, that was a very well written post and I commend you for being so coherent and your attention to spelling and grammar. I also wonder if I'm the only one that will read it in it's entirety....





I think you might have answered your own dilemma in this paragraph above. The exemplary customer service you noted from others might not be so prevalent now that there is a new sheriff in town.


I have run across instances in dealing with high end audio manufacturers where some are great and some, not so much. Some companies (read: owners of said companies) go above and beyond what is necessary no matter where you fall on the ownership food chain. Others are "by the book", no exceptions.


As you reiterated in your post a few times, John owes you nothing. And it seems like either his hands are tied by the new ownership, or he doesn't want to be one of the "good guys". Either way, the end result is the same for you. Not good.


Shakey

zeevette

Your email was from Feb., so it's not a current state of affairs. You are much too long-winded for most people to labor through. It's very off putting for email messages, IMO. Other than that, 3rd owner, tough ****.

walleyejack

the way i see it, the op was reaching out to John/CCW for a mutual resolution, and was offering to commit to a deal, but appears as if ccw was in the midst of shutting down and he didn t want to deal with this, so sold out, and knew full well there would be no resolution after the sale of the company, so he just let it drag out. jmho

terrywerst

No clue why you even posted this. He doesn't owe you anything. Move on, and get some new wheels.

raztek

Correct, CCW was under no obligation and I have stated as much.

If reconnecting after being asked to reconnect is considered drawing out a situation, then yes, I'm guilty of that.

I had no issue with the $125US. At the same time it is on the higher side of the quotes I received.

Did CCW not make margin on the wheels that have the issue? What entitles them to make the same profit (or more) to replace an item that may or may not have failed due to a manufacturing defect? Please note, there is no reseller in this situation that CCW would normally have to split profit with.

imjdoggie

Sounds like John's a bull $h!tter and could care less now that Weld owns CCW and he's been paid...........he had numerous chances to tell you it was your fault for putting C6 wheels on a C5. Mental note to never buy or recommend CCW's to anyone.


Hope your oldest child is all better now.

raztek

Thank you I already have. Secondhand C6 wheels with a spacer dunno if they are forged. But 5200 miles later still good.

Guess stock is better than domestically made forged wheels.

RSbeast

You are basing thing on a hypothetical situation that does not exist. There was no recall. If you buy an oven second hand and it breaks, do you absolve the original manufactures warranty on file with the original owner? No.

The fact is neither of you know the full history of the wheels. They may have been tracked and super heated; they might have had snow frozen between the spokes; they might have hit a few potholes and were weakened. You can't prove there was a defect any more than he can prove there wasn't negligence. Accordingly, wheels do have a lifespan. Obviously different designs and material choices affect this; but also use. It is common to see high end wheels fail from repeated track use. All of the forces generated by turning and Heat are focused on those thin lattice spokes.

To me, John did address the problem although he didn't have to. If you had taken full action at the time of the initial offer I think your position would be quite different. You acknowledge that he owes you nothing but you are upset that he isn't offering enough.

That is confusing.

Evil-Twin

I refused to read all this detailed drivel. After reading "not the original owner , and 5 years old ", I was done. Anything could have happened to those wheels in five years including : having a major tire failure with a non run flat tire. The previous car could have been broad sided, or the wheels bought from a salvage title that was wrecked before you bought them.
So to think for one moment that any sane man would honor any plea for consideration from a second owner who does not know for sure if the wheels were 5 years old or 15 years old. Anyone can make CCW wheels look brand new, that doesn't mean that they were not abused.

I will refrain from any further comments on the waste of Bandwidth.

CCW wheels start out with a 60 lb forged ingot, which is inspected and x-rayed, and certifications given. CCW uses CNC programs designed with proper speeds and feeds to insure quality workmanship. CCW has built a reputation on quality from the raw material to the actual machine process. To suggest that they somehow deviated from this high quality manufacturing process is just plain pathetic.

raztek

RSBeast - please know that I am looking for input like yours. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Where I am coming from is that he offered a solution. He came across as acknowledging that there was a reasonable probability that there was a defect. Had he not - end of story, done. I am making the huge assumption that I was not lied to about the wheel history - I get that. I never asked for a handout and I personally would have handled things as I mentioned if in his shoes.

I told him the history, there was no BS involved. If he told me to get lost, I would have. My issue is why agree to do something and when it gets difficult change what you initially put out there.

If I buy a used stove and it failed because of what may be a mfg defect, damn right I am going to call them for an explanation and amicable resolution. I didn't get an explanation just maybe this maybe that. I was provided with a solution that as explained due to personal circumstances, being told to call back, and John himself not getting back when saying he would drew out the time line. Sure things changed in terms of ownership. Perhaps he didn't want to pursue it up the chain to not draw attention to it with the people that just bought his company - who knows.

The issue is the change in the solution, that is where I have the biggest problem as I was ready to go with his initial proposal and I think rightly had concerns about the fronts.

raztek

I did not suggest that. So there is no possibility ever that something fell through the cracks? You mean to tell me that there is 100% quality in the process. If so, then CCW has a goldmine and should develop a consulting practice for same. It would make a fortune!

The wheels were 5 yrs old, I was the one that gave him the name to find out the history. Think you are missing the point. I trust the history I was given otherwise the prior owner could have ran and hid from me - he didn't.

Honest people, nothing out of sync in terms of history should normally result in reasonable accommodation. Not sure why CCW flipping on an agreement is not being flagged as part of these responses.

I don't think I was ever rude or crude so I am honestly dumbfounded as to flip in solution or unwillingness to stand up to it. And if starting from a 60lb ingot then yes credit where credit is due, John offered an at cost resolution that he subsequently could not/would not honour.

vettebuyer6369

As this long post is now in the Transactions Feedback section, it does not appear that it needs to remain open for response by the seller, so it will be closed per TF rules.

If something significant occurs regarding the transaction, the OP or seller can contact me and we will add it to the thread. Of course, all members can continue to read the thread regardless.