2cnd Chance

Very interesting, thanks!

Rock36

I know this is all about the C7 Z06, but I'm glad Jim Mero is okay for one, and second I was pleasantly surprised he made an acknowledgement of the original (pre-Z07) C6 Z06 ring time done as a standing start w/o a cup tire.

Ignoring tires for a second, just factoring in ~1.5 second handicap from the standing start Mero mentioned would bump the original, nearly decade old, C6Z time up to the Camaro ZL1 lap time.

b4i4getit

I am a little confused about Mero's comment "The mission primary objective is to complete the tuning of the car for European roads and European driving habits." Why is that ? GM sells a token amount of these cars to the European market. Why not tune these cars for the home market ?

KnightmareCS

Cause their driving habits are better

arizonaZ0612

Probably because they drive to work at 130MPH.

80atez

I would like to thank Jim Mero for the response and all who work on and offer us a sweet ride...

I think it is very smart of you to reply in such a technical way. And it makes good business sense to do so, so I don't find it surprising at all that you do so.. I would add I do watch 'ring times closely and I do think they have some bearing on which cars I consider. Racing in general is a big factor for me. I understand from what is written here that 'ring times may become harder to come by, which is a shame. But with more and more video-documented civilian laps posted from around the globe, I'm not sure it matters as much anymore. It is THE bookmark, though.

The question I have, and excuse me for being a devil's advocate here, is how would all those fancy graphs look different on a perfectly dry track if the rear tires let go? I mean, if you are momentarily at 100%, and go to 101%, and cannot correct, and the car can't, wouldn't the graphs look just the same as an oil-induced spin? Wouldn't proof that the car can go to a higher limit at that section be required to say you hit something slick??

If I get a response to that from GM, I will be humbled, but I do need to say when I read stuff like this from the guys who work on vettes it makes me want a new one!

At least now all the new C7Z06 owners know the finer points of talking their way out of admitting their car can snap oversteer, and one already practiced on this thread! ; )

Keep up the great work, 95-101%!

jvp

I think Jim basically answered your question with this paragraph. From the answer with emphasis added by me:

Basically what you'd see if you went to 101% of traction are lines that were more gradual in the change of their respective slopes. Not very sudden like you see in Jim's graphs.

80atez

Thanks, that is exactly what he was getting at! OK I get it... And I guess the rain washed away the oil... No, really, I do accept that reasoning. And I appreciate your reply.

dvandentop

this is great and thank you to all in involved in this inside peak at gm engineering side of things.

Poor-sha

Really great response. Am I the only one curious about the "VETTE Tool" he showed us a screen shot of?

Perhaps we can get GM to post the actual PDR file from the VIR run so we can see the data from that.

80atez

The thing I can't quite figure out is how (or why it hasn't happened) to convert the difficult thing of obtaining a 'ring time into a 3 lap test at Road America... A potentially easy thing to do with a fraction of $.

"The American Ring."

Why not?

If any manufacturer posted an official time for this, the line would be placed, and I would have my hair raised. American or otherwise.

Also, with these high end true sports cars, why not team up: Porsche, Viper, Vette, come together and test.. Year after year. The interest would surge for all, regardless of who is fastest.

KnightmareCS

The 'ring is truly something else. It has elevation changes, surface changes, multiple esses, banked turns, etc.
You'd have to make a track at that level here, nothing currently exists...

Porsche does not believe the Vette exists. They don't want to "stoop down" to that level. Yeah lol
Viper is pretty much doomed sales-wise.

dvandentop

yeah should start a sanction saying in 2016 car test available in the US can be tested and based off road america times. would be a great idea

1985 Corvette

Very thorough response. I don't quite grasp the obsession some have over ring times. One only needs to read one topic on this forum alone discussing ring times from various manufacturers and the amount of hair splitting among hardcore proponents and opponents of X car versus Y car will make you cross eyed. Fact and fiction begin to meld together as one poster discredits another poster, another poster downplays that poster's rebuttal and supports his own data.... ad infinitum.

If ring runs are to set the internet message boards ablaze with mega buzz, then manufacturers hit their target. The average buyer isn't haggling ring times on the sales floor during purchase.

34bos

7:22 for the c6z with z07 only 1 attempt!
damn this car is seriously fast!!!

CPhelps

I think that was getting a little misconstrued without the context of the original "Ask Tadge" question.

Basically he's saying the primary objective while testing on the in Germany (Ring included) is to complete the tuning of the car for European roads and driving habits, NOT to set a fast lap on the Ring. Then he goes on to point out the limited times they actually have for a cohesive hot lap, vs. the other testing they do.

Not that the primary objective for the tuning is to only target European roads and driving habits, as we know they do a lot of tuning on tracks here (Road Atalanta specifically it sounds like) and the Milford Road Course on the proving grounds.

The Lightning Lap by C&D and the Best Drivers Car by MT using Randy get half way there, and have set a great standard for comparison. Extending to a total time for 3 cumulative timed hot laps would be an interesting addition to the testing the mags, and would take into account some of the length of the Ring and the consistency/durability needed from the cars.