[ANSWERED] Will Software updates ever be offered?
03-27-2015, 06:10 PM
#1
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[ANSWERED] Will Software updates ever be offered?
Original question is here.
Hot Rod Todd asked
As a model progresses through it's life cycle, there are often updates that improve the performance of the engine or transmission in subsequent models. In some cases these updates could be passed down to older models with little or no adjustment to the program file. Many discussions I have had with other owners on this topic indicate that most believe that the manufacturer's use this as a way to lure them to the newer model, buy the newer model year and you get the better performance.
Example: The paddle shifting speed of the 2009 6 speed auto was significantly improved over the 2008 (and better yet in 2010). All of the improvement was gained through adjustments to the transmission programming tables.
I'm not talking about safety or warranty type downloads, which I know already happen on occasion.
My Question:
Do you think there will ever be a time when performance updates will be offered on non-current models, either at a charge to the owner or for free?
As a model progresses through it's life cycle, there are often updates that improve the performance of the engine or transmission in subsequent models. In some cases these updates could be passed down to older models with little or no adjustment to the program file. Many discussions I have had with other owners on this topic indicate that most believe that the manufacturer's use this as a way to lure them to the newer model, buy the newer model year and you get the better performance.
Example: The paddle shifting speed of the 2009 6 speed auto was significantly improved over the 2008 (and better yet in 2010). All of the improvement was gained through adjustments to the transmission programming tables.
I'm not talking about safety or warranty type downloads, which I know already happen on occasion.
My Question:
Do you think there will ever be a time when performance updates will be offered on non-current models, either at a charge to the owner or for free?
Tadge answered:
Good Question. I can tell you we never, ever, withhold performance intentionally knowing that with a simple calibration change we can improve it the following year and get people to buy a new car. We always put our best work out there and then keep trying to do better. Unfortunately, sometimes it may look like we could have done better from the start, but that is just not the case. The question asked about performance specifically, but most of our re-flash field bulletins relate to customer satisfaction in non-performance areas. For example, we changed a calibration to help the way the seat memory recall worked on manual transmission vehicles last year. I can't recall ever making an engine performance change though calibration.... Driveability, yes, but not performance. Quite often software, calibration and hardware changes are bundled together in model year changes and even though the hardware changes are subtle, they can affect the backwards compatibility of the calibration changes. This is certainly true of some of the shift speed changes we made as continuous improvement on C6's. We always attempt to specify how far back the cal is compatible. Sometimes it is just for the current model year, sometimes it can be used for several previous model years.
Your question is also forward-looking. It is true that vehicles' performance, features and character are more and more software-driven every day. I do think the future will hold more upgrade capability and customization than we do now.
Good Question. I can tell you we never, ever, withhold performance intentionally knowing that with a simple calibration change we can improve it the following year and get people to buy a new car. We always put our best work out there and then keep trying to do better. Unfortunately, sometimes it may look like we could have done better from the start, but that is just not the case. The question asked about performance specifically, but most of our re-flash field bulletins relate to customer satisfaction in non-performance areas. For example, we changed a calibration to help the way the seat memory recall worked on manual transmission vehicles last year. I can't recall ever making an engine performance change though calibration.... Driveability, yes, but not performance. Quite often software, calibration and hardware changes are bundled together in model year changes and even though the hardware changes are subtle, they can affect the backwards compatibility of the calibration changes. This is certainly true of some of the shift speed changes we made as continuous improvement on C6's. We always attempt to specify how far back the cal is compatible. Sometimes it is just for the current model year, sometimes it can be used for several previous model years.
Your question is also forward-looking. It is true that vehicles' performance, features and character are more and more software-driven every day. I do think the future will hold more upgrade capability and customization than we do now.
03-29-2015, 03:27 PM
#3
I don't know if Tadge reads CF or not with any regularity, but I want to offer him a heartfelt thank you. You and your team have designed a beautiful car. You also have chosen to be exposed to comments here when you certainly did not have to. After hearing you on several interviews, I'm willing to bet you voluntarily went to GM brass to ask for permission to do this; you were not pressured to do so from above. As a fellow engineer, the path you chose here is not one many engineers - or people in general - would be comfortable doing. So, thank you for being so willing to talk about your baby!
The car you have designed is going to add years to my life by removing stress. After a tough week at work, an hour of Vette therapy is all I (and my wife) need...
The car you have designed is going to add years to my life by removing stress. After a tough week at work, an hour of Vette therapy is all I (and my wife) need...
03-29-2015, 07:58 PM
#4
Racer
I don't know if Tadge reads CF or not with any regularity, but I want to offer him a heartfelt thank you. You and your team have designed a beautiful car. You also have chosen to be exposed to comments here when you certainly did not have to. After hearing you on several interviews, I'm willing to bet you voluntarily went to GM brass to ask for permission to do this; you were not pressured to do so from above. As a fellow engineer, the path you chose here is not one many engineers - or people in general - would be comfortable doing. So, thank you for being so willing to talk about your baby!
The car you have designed is going to add years to my life by removing stress. After a tough week at work, an hour of Vette therapy is all I (and my wife) need...
The car you have designed is going to add years to my life by removing stress. After a tough week at work, an hour of Vette therapy is all I (and my wife) need...
03-29-2015, 08:29 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
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Maybe someone should have asked why the ARM was not updated in '14s to the '15s standards.
I have a feeling this would cost a ton of money for GM, so if it's performance related, they just don't do it. the dealer will charge the labor to GM which will have to pay up for thousands of cars. Imagine half of 14's that were produced (would be 18644 C7s) go to the dealers to get an update for the ARM. at 100 bucks an hour, that would cost GM nearly 2 million dollars.
I have a feeling this would cost a ton of money for GM, so if it's performance related, they just don't do it. the dealer will charge the labor to GM which will have to pay up for thousands of cars. Imagine half of 14's that were produced (would be 18644 C7s) go to the dealers to get an update for the ARM. at 100 bucks an hour, that would cost GM nearly 2 million dollars.
03-30-2015, 10:23 AM
#6
Maybe someone should have asked why the ARM was not updated in '14s to the '15s standards.
I have a feeling this would cost a ton of money for GM, so if it's performance related, they just don't do it. the dealer will charge the labor to GM which will have to pay up for thousands of cars. Imagine half of 14's that were produced (would be 18644 C7s) go to the dealers to get an update for the ARM. at 100 bucks an hour, that would cost GM nearly 2 million dollars.
I have a feeling this would cost a ton of money for GM, so if it's performance related, they just don't do it. the dealer will charge the labor to GM which will have to pay up for thousands of cars. Imagine half of 14's that were produced (would be 18644 C7s) go to the dealers to get an update for the ARM. at 100 bucks an hour, that would cost GM nearly 2 million dollars.
Worse case, it should be proposed at cost if justified, to the car owner who can decide based on list of improvements if he wants to pay for it or just pass.
Big thanks to Tadge for taking the time to answer our questions!
Phil
03-30-2015, 11:47 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
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I'd like to thank Tadge for answering my question. There is potential for GM to make some money with tune upgrades, especially when the hardware is often unchanged. Unfortunately it is often difficult to get any engineering money and time allocated to put some effort into any "old" products.
I would think with a small amount of effort it would be possible to make newer program files backward compatible to some models. Many would pay to have a quick download done during maintenance that would improve performance, anything from shift speeds to octane compatibility. As long as the upgrade is in line with the newer products, I wouldn't think there would have to be a lot of expensive dependability testing done to release enhancements that would not affect the warranty. Think of it like getting the latest maps for your navigation program.
I would think with a small amount of effort it would be possible to make newer program files backward compatible to some models. Many would pay to have a quick download done during maintenance that would improve performance, anything from shift speeds to octane compatibility. As long as the upgrade is in line with the newer products, I wouldn't think there would have to be a lot of expensive dependability testing done to release enhancements that would not affect the warranty. Think of it like getting the latest maps for your navigation program.
03-31-2015, 06:36 PM
#8
Race Director
I'd like to thank Tadge for answering my question. There is potential for GM to make some money with tune upgrades, especially when the hardware is often unchanged. Unfortunately it is often difficult to get any engineering money and time allocated to put some effort into any "old" products.
I would think with a small amount of effort it would be possible to make newer program files backward compatible to some models. Many would pay to have a quick download done during maintenance that would improve performance, anything from shift speeds to octane compatibility. As long as the upgrade is in line with the newer products, I wouldn't think there would have to be a lot of expensive dependability testing done to release enhancements that would not affect the warranty. Think of it like getting the latest maps for your navigation program.
I would think with a small amount of effort it would be possible to make newer program files backward compatible to some models. Many would pay to have a quick download done during maintenance that would improve performance, anything from shift speeds to octane compatibility. As long as the upgrade is in line with the newer products, I wouldn't think there would have to be a lot of expensive dependability testing done to release enhancements that would not affect the warranty. Think of it like getting the latest maps for your navigation program.
04-05-2015, 03:57 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
In Tadge's response he talks about a change to seat settings in manual transmission cars. What has been changed and has anyone had this done by dealer? My 2014 has been in storage since October but I remember that the seat return was a real pain.
04-06-2015, 08:55 PM
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Yes, there were several treads on this. I had it done last summer and it was really needed. I wish I could get the 2015 rev matching installed on my 2014 7 speed. With it on I tend to get a slight gear grind while up shifting.
04-10-2015, 05:07 AM
#11
Drifting
I have .....and as far as I'm concerned it works great now,still not like c6 but very automated.....I like it!
