[ANSWERED] Track Alignment Problems
10-05-2016, 11:37 AM
#21
Instructor
We know that the track alignment is going to wreck havoc on the wheels in regards to tire wear, but how much of a difference does the track alignment make? Is it only for people trying to get the absolute fastest possible time? Would it really be that important for a simple HPDE? More than anything I'm worried about the safety aspects of not doing it, not the performance implications (although they may be linked).
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
10-05-2016, 07:28 PM
#22
Drifting
I agree, great question here, maybe even enough so to warrant another Tadge question!
We know that the track alignment is going to wreck havoc on the wheels in regards to tire wear, but how much of a difference does the track alignment make? Is it only for people trying to get the absolute fastest possible time? Would it really be that important for a simple HPDE? More than anything I'm worried about the safety aspects of not doing it, not the performance implications (although they may be linked).
We know that the track alignment is going to wreck havoc on the wheels in regards to tire wear, but how much of a difference does the track alignment make? Is it only for people trying to get the absolute fastest possible time? Would it really be that important for a simple HPDE? More than anything I'm worried about the safety aspects of not doing it, not the performance implications (although they may be linked).
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
10-26-2016, 04:07 PM
#23
Pro
In my opinion this is an outstanding response to the question. I work for a large company, GM like every large company will have variation through its distributors. Looking at this from a corporate GM point of view it makes tremendous sense. Looking at it from a dealership point of view it minimized unneeded expenditures. From a consumer point of view it can (and has by some of the responses) caused some concern.
I personally do not take my cars to the dealership unless I absolutely have to (recalls etc.). This is a result of consistent service below my personal standards (they are admittedly high). The regional section of this forum can be used to find reputable shops who have specialists who specialize in working on performance cars. Dealerships are focusing on their money makers (pick up trucks and sedans).
Thank you Tadge for taking the time to answer these questions. I am looking forward to ordering my C7.
I personally do not take my cars to the dealership unless I absolutely have to (recalls etc.). This is a result of consistent service below my personal standards (they are admittedly high). The regional section of this forum can be used to find reputable shops who have specialists who specialize in working on performance cars. Dealerships are focusing on their money makers (pick up trucks and sedans).
Thank you Tadge for taking the time to answer these questions. I am looking forward to ordering my C7.
10-26-2016, 04:13 PM
#24
Pro
I agree, great question here, maybe even enough so to warrant another Tadge question!
We know that the track alignment is going to wreck havoc on the wheels in regards to tire wear, but how much of a difference does the track alignment make? Is it only for people trying to get the absolute fastest possible time? Would it really be that important for a simple HPDE? More than anything I'm worried about the safety aspects of not doing it, not the performance implications (although they may be linked).
We know that the track alignment is going to wreck havoc on the wheels in regards to tire wear, but how much of a difference does the track alignment make? Is it only for people trying to get the absolute fastest possible time? Would it really be that important for a simple HPDE? More than anything I'm worried about the safety aspects of not doing it, not the performance implications (although they may be linked).
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
01-06-2017, 10:20 PM
#25
Pro
Sorry to revive a bit of an old thread, but I wanted to see what other people have been quoted for the time required to perform this work. I'm about to take my car (2016 z06) to the track for the first time, so this is the first time I've had to deal with this.
Right now my dealer (Lindsay Chevrolet in Woodbridge, VA) is telling me that this procedure will take 4 HOURS!!! That means a total of 8 hours of labor (setting to track alignment, then setting back to street alignment afterwards)?! That would be like $1000!
Right now my dealer (Lindsay Chevrolet in Woodbridge, VA) is telling me that this procedure will take 4 HOURS!!! That means a total of 8 hours of labor (setting to track alignment, then setting back to street alignment afterwards)?! That would be like $1000!
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
02-02-2017, 01:47 PM
#26
My local dealer had no clue what I was talking about when I asked them how much it would be to track prep my Z06 (oil change, track alignment etc.) - was told they'd get back to me with the info and never did. I can almost guarantee that they don't have the necessary alignment tool to do it.
I don't understand how GM doesn't make the tool essential for dealerships that are selling Z06s, 'the most track capable Corvette ever.'
If they already have the tool, congrats - make them buy another. They'll have a spare and trust me, they can afford it..
I don't understand how GM doesn't make the tool essential for dealerships that are selling Z06s, 'the most track capable Corvette ever.'
If they already have the tool, congrats - make them buy another. They'll have a spare and trust me, they can afford it..
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
02-02-2017, 01:49 PM
#27
I have tracked my 2012 GS using the standard alignment on many occasions and can tell you that if you are driving at the level where you are greatly benefiting from the track alignment you are well above the average enthusiast. I find most people during HPDEs are having enough trouble shifting smoothly, properly apexing corners and braking that they would not improve lap times with an advanced alignment. Not trying to put anyone down just calling it like I have seen it. I will admit I don't feel it's necessary for me at this time.
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
02-07-2017, 08:49 AM
#28
Safety Car
Correct me if I am wrong, but setting the rear caster angle is necessary for a C7 regardless if you are going for a track or street setting.
If this is correct, then how can any Corvette selling dealership not have both the necessary tools (both the gauge and adapter) and not have someone in the dealership qualified to use them correctly? Further, why does the printout from the dealership (shown in scottkwilson's post) not show the rear casting recommended and actual settings?
If this is correct, then how can any Corvette selling dealership not have both the necessary tools (both the gauge and adapter) and not have someone in the dealership qualified to use them correctly? Further, why does the printout from the dealership (shown in scottkwilson's post) not show the rear casting recommended and actual settings?
02-09-2017, 07:44 PM
#29
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
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Correct me if I am wrong, but setting the rear caster angle is necessary for a C7 regardless if you are going for a track or street setting.
If this is correct, then how can any Corvette selling dealership not have both the necessary tools (both the gauge and adapter) and not have someone in the dealership qualified to use them correctly? Further, why does the printout from the dealership (shown in scottkwilson's post) not show the rear casting recommended and actual settings?
If this is correct, then how can any Corvette selling dealership not have both the necessary tools (both the gauge and adapter) and not have someone in the dealership qualified to use them correctly? Further, why does the printout from the dealership (shown in scottkwilson's post) not show the rear casting recommended and actual settings?
Bill
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
05-31-2017, 10:30 PM
#30
Advanced
My son in law sells John Bean/SnapOn alignment machines and he tells me that these new machines can read rear caster. Any ideas if the new series of alignment machines can do this or does the shop still need the adapter and digital angle gauge. Tks
09-13-2017, 12:17 PM
#31
Safety Car
Tadge,
Great answer and thanks for taking the time. Too bad many dealers STILL can't do a proper rear caster alignment due ignorance and lack of the tools. I realize there's only so much you can do.
Rick
Great answer and thanks for taking the time. Too bad many dealers STILL can't do a proper rear caster alignment due ignorance and lack of the tools. I realize there's only so much you can do.
Rick
05-14-2018, 04:51 PM
#32
Is there an app for that?
This seems too easy, but I have used my iPhone with the Bubble Level App (a digital level) to measure rear wheel caster. With the "Plumb Line" feature and my iPhone edge pressed against the flattened edge of the tool alignment holes I get a value that looks believable ( 0.7 degrees on one side and 0.9 on the other).
Does this seem like a way around the GM tool/digital level issue?
Does this seem like a way around the GM tool/digital level issue?
Last edited by dmagee; 07-04-2018 at 09:18 PM. Reason: ment to put caster rather than camber
05-29-2018, 11:03 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
I am not sure if the alignment holes to vertical is the castor measure or if there is an offset angle.
07-04-2018, 10:54 AM
#34
Le Mans Master
I have a Nissan GT-R, and Nissan has a technician training program where the dealer must buy various pieces of service equipment including a full alignment rack and have a factory trained technician on staff to service the GT-R in order to be able to sell GT-R's. Every time my car went in for its scheduled maintenance, it was the same trained tech that worked on my car, 8 years running now. Service manager also requires training on the GT-R. If Nissan can do it, so can GM. Part of the yearly maintenance is an alignment, street or track as owner prefers, and it comes with a nice before and after print-out.
My GM service manager refused to do any alignment on my Corvette because the said they had an old poorly calibrated alignment rack as management didn't want to spring for a new one, and he sent me to a shop he respected that did race car setups and had high quality machines. Imagine that. Not thinking that Tadge's response will make my dealer buy a new alignment rack, let alone the caster tools for the C7.
My GM service manager refused to do any alignment on my Corvette because the said they had an old poorly calibrated alignment rack as management didn't want to spring for a new one, and he sent me to a shop he respected that did race car setups and had high quality machines. Imagine that. Not thinking that Tadge's response will make my dealer buy a new alignment rack, let alone the caster tools for the C7.
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
07-04-2018, 10:57 AM
#35
Le Mans Master
I have tracked my 2012 GS using the standard alignment on many occasions and can tell you that if you are driving at the level where you are greatly benefiting from the track alignment you are well above the average enthusiast. I find most people during HPDEs are having enough trouble shifting smoothly, properly apexing corners and braking that they would not improve lap times with an advanced alignment. Not trying to put anyone down just calling it like I have seen it. I will admit I don't feel it's necessary for me at this time.
Will it change lap times for beginners? No, probably not. Will it burn through tires? Yup. Will an alignment improve the experience dramatically? Yup.
07-09-2018, 03:01 PM
#36
07-09-2018, 06:16 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
It is a compromise like everything when you start tracking your street car. Better off getting a dedicated track car. I haven't gone there yet.
07-13-2018, 10:24 AM
#38
Melting Slicks
I'm in the Detroit area and I am still having an extremely hard time finding anyone to adjust the rear caster on my car. I've tried dealers, independent mechanics, nobody has the tool. Sort of weird, being in GM's home town, that I'd have such a problem.
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CorvetteBrent (07-14-2018)
07-17-2018, 09:52 PM
#40
Melting Slicks
Member Since: May 2006
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I purchased the angle gauge and adapter and gave it to my local alignment shop in NY. They do fantastic work and I have sent many Vettes to them as a result. And of course going in for an alignment when first getting the car (with a few hundred miles for break in) is critical as anyone that has gone has alignments waaay off right from Bowling Green...I am going on my 3rd C7...so far the first two we’re not within spec from the factory...
