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[ANSWERED] 2017 upgrades for 2015&2016 model years

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[ANSWERED] 2017 upgrades for 2015&2016 model years

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Old 04-12-2017, 05:13 PM
  #1  
jvp
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Default [ANSWERED] 2017 upgrades for 2015&2016 model years

The original question is here.

wstaab asked
Tadge we need a status on upgrades for 2015&2016 model year C7's.
Supercharger upgrades; tilted internal heat ex-changers and larger supercharger lid.
Auxiliary radiator for manual transmission cars.
Transmission cooling upgrades for automatic transmission Z06's Coolant temp as a pocket gauge in sport mode.
2017 PDR display upgrade.
Will they be available and if so when?
Tadge answered:

Let me take these in roughly reverse order starting with the cluster and PDR 2017 changes: The short answer is no, we don't intend to create a backwards compatible software set that can be reflashed into 2014, '15 or '16 models. From the outside, I can see why it would look like a simple matter to offer the 2017 software and calibrations for prior years. The truth is that it is anything but. Each year we strive to continuously improve the Corvette using hardware, software and calibrations. In cases where we simply make a cal change, it is usually backwards compatible. But those are rare. To add new features like PDR screen overlays or add a new pocket gage in the cluster requires software at a minimum. Anyone who has dealt with complex software will tell you that validating it for all situations and use-cases is not a trivial matter. The Corvette's (and most modern vehicles for that matter) electrical system consists of many complex interacting systems. Changes in one area can affect another.... Often in surprising ways. What this means is that there is usually a need for a specific software solution for each configuration. That means we would have to write and validate new code to provide the same functionality as new customers are seeing for 2017. More specifically that is a new code set for each of 2014, 2015 and 2016 model years. And if we wanted to the same thing for any 2018 changes, it gets worse with new solutions needed for 2014 - 2017. This an unmanageable demand on constrained resources when we are trying to focus our efforts on making each year better than the last and bringing it out with world-class reliability.

One area where we are going to try to offer upgrades is MR calibrations. Our magnetorheological shocks are ideal components to upgrade with calibrations because they have a large influence over the dynamic behavior of the vehicle. We have made some improvements in later models years and are planning to offer those upgrades to prior cars. Of, course it is not "free". We have to do work to check to make sure the new cal's are completely compatible with other systems such as ABS, Traction control and stability systems. More to follow on this.

The auxiliary radiator for the manual transmission has been available since last year http://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/84037858.html. What may be causing confusion is that it is currently on back order and is planned to be restocked next month under a new kit part number 84201727. We made some minor improvements to the hardware and installation instructions which required the part number change.

The question also references “Transmission cooling upgrades for automatic transmission Z06's”. We have a secondary trans cooler on automatic Z06’s already. The RPO is V03. It has been standard equipment on the car since it was introduced for 2015. There are no further upgrades available at this time. Based on our testing of 2017 automatic vehicles, the trans lube temperature is not typically the “weak link” on the track.

Finally, the 2017 supercharger upgrade kit: The hardware is already available piece-meal through service parts. We are working however, to assemble a kit that would make customer installation more straightforward. The kit would include the supercharger assembly, a new hood liner and a new calibration for automatic transmission vehicles (This calibration is not backwards compatible with 2015 and 16 cars but is important and is being re-developed for the earlier cars). We would like to offer the kit at a nice discount from the normal service parts cost to owners of 2015 and 2016 Z06's. Putting this all together is a fairly complex task, but we are making progress. Readers of the Corvette Forum won't have to ask me when it is available. I will post it to the Ask Tadge section as soon as I can regardless of the question being asked.
Jason's contribution: OK folks, as of this question, we're officially done asking Tadge about upgrades to cooling/track performance/etc for the cars. I added the emphasis to the end of Tadge's response: take that as a gentle shot across the bow from me. No more. Feel free to discuss this answer all you'd like in this thread, but no more questions on that topic. Thanks.

Last edited by jvp; 04-12-2017 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:18 PM
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Good news and some 'as expected but did not hurt to ask' I look forward to what Tadge and team put forth for Supercharger update kit as I will likely buy in if its anywhere reasonable. The MR updates were unexpected and will be interesting to watch and perhaps partake in.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:58 PM
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Glad the question was asked and that he intends to follow through without additional pressure. Thanks!
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:28 AM
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I hope everyone understands its not easy to go back and update previous year model. Corvette engineering must put all the resources for the future. All car manufactures updating their cars and none would offer these updates for previous year owners. It is what it is.

The transmission question was the wrong question and obviously it confused Tadge. The question should have been for 2015 Z51 A8 owner. Tadge promised a kit two years ago and it never happened. Its really not easy to get things done in a corporate environment so no blame on Tadge. I expect the same will happen for supercharger updates.

Last edited by 5thGear; 04-13-2017 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 5thGear View Post
The transmission question was the wrong question and obviously it confused Tadge. The question should have been for 2015 Z51 A8 owner. Tadge promised a kit two years ago and it never happened. Its really not easy to get things done in a corporate environment so no blame on Tadge. I expect the same will happen for supercharger updates.
It wasn't the "wrong" question, it was only acceptable question. The A8 issue was pointed out before the question was officially asked and it was obviously intentionally omitted.

The question has still not been answered. Where is the promised A8 secondary cooler upgrade???

Its ironic, the original answer, from almost two years ago, said "One really good thing about the "Ask Tadge" section of the forum is that it focuses attention on issues where we can help customers. This question is a good example." Don't see how stringing along customers helps them, especially after misrepresenting the product to start with (not him personally, but GM/Chevy marketing and product people).

Even if, after trying to put together the kit, they came to the realization that it just wasn't practical to retrofit a car, just saying so would be the stand-up thing to do and at least let owners act accordingly. Instead they just try to ignore it, which makes it much worse.

One of the studies another car brand was doing that I was involved with was focusing on brand loyalty and trust and how to build it. This is how you lose it. When I was at the track for GM's Stingray event before the car was even shipping and they let us drive it and told us it was track ready from the factory, I trusted it would be and ordered one. When Tadge answered the original question and said the secondary cooler kit would be available, I trusted that it would be. Fool me once...
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jvp View Post
The original question is here.





Jason's contribution: OK folks, as of this question, we're officially done asking Tadge about upgrades to cooling/track performance/etc for the cars. I added the emphasis to the end of Tadge's response: take that as a gentle shot across the bow from me. No more. Feel free to discuss this answer all you'd like in this thread, but no more questions on that topic. Thanks.

'The short answer is no, we don't intend to create a backwards compatible software set that can be reflashed into 2014, '15 or '16 models. From the outside, I can see why it would look like a simple matter to offer the 2017 software and calibrations for prior years. The truth is that it is anything but. Each year we strive to continuously improve the Corvette using hardware, software and calibrations. In cases where we simply make a cal change, it is usually backwards compatible'

What the F#%*, we got your money, so **** you, live with it.. until the next **** up we **** you again.. Thanks for having our back GM.
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:39 PM
  #7  
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Dayum!!!!

I guess you're glad you don't have one of these crappy cars!!

As for me, no overheating at all with my M7. My 2016 is a fantastic car!!

.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay_Davis View Post
It wasn't the "wrong" question, it was only acceptable question. The A8 issue was pointed out before the question was officially asked and it was obviously intentionally omitted.

The question has still not been answered. Where is the promised A8 secondary cooler upgrade???


Its ironic, the original answer, from almost two years ago, said "One really good thing about the "Ask Tadge" section of the forum is that it focuses attention on issues where we can help customers. This question is a good example." Don't see how stringing along customers helps them, especially after misrepresenting the product to start with (not him personally, but GM/Chevy marketing and product people).

Even if, after trying to put together the kit, they came to the realization that it just wasn't practical to retrofit a car, just saying so would be the stand-up thing to do and at least let owners act accordingly. Instead they just try to ignore it, which makes it much worse.

One of the studies another car brand was doing that I was involved with was focusing on brand loyalty and trust and how to build it. This is how you lose it. When I was at the track for GM's Stingray event before the car was even shipping and they let us drive it and told us it was track ready from the factory, I trusted it would be and ordered one. When Tadge answered the original question and said the secondary cooler kit would be available, I trusted that it would be. Fool me once...
Jay, we are saying the same thing. The question was wrong because it asked for Z06 A8 transmission cooling and Tadge said there is nothing wrong with A8 cooling on Z06 and he is right . The question should have referenced my 2015 Z51 A8 question from two years ago . Because the way the question was asked, it didn't get answered properly and apperantly lost the opportunity for life to ask it again on ask Tadge forum.

Last edited by 5thGear; 04-14-2017 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:53 AM
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While I understand the frustration of some members in regards to A8 cooling on Z51's, I sure don't get the anger over lack of software upgrades to PDR 2015/16 cars. This is not an iPhone....and even Apple has had software update issues (ask anyone with an iPhone 6). "Here's a NEW update to fix the problems the LAST update created in your phone" is Apple's answer. There seems to be this notion that GM should continually keep someone's current car exactly the same as the NEW one. That's not how it works NOW, and that's not how it worked EVER. To me, that's like 2014 A6 owners expecting GM to put the A8 in their car, although based on the A8's issues, maybe not!!!!

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Old 04-20-2017, 06:56 PM
  #10  
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To be fair, I can't put all the blame on Tadge. There's lots of people that get involved in these decisions, lawyers, accountants, various levels of executives, etc. Things like this are rarely the result of one person. The way this, not to mention all the rest of the A8 issues, have been handled, is completely unacceptable, to the point where if nothing is done very soon I will never buy from GM again. But the blame has to be on GM as a whole, not one person, since there's no way for us to know exactly what has gone on which has caused us to get to this point.

Having said that, I do hold Tadge accountable for his previous statement that an upgrade kit would be available. To not even be willing to address the fact that its not is pretty bad.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:09 PM
  #11  
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It has been almost one year since the 2017 C7/Z06 was shown to the public at the Bash in Bowling Green last April. Improvements were the auxiliary coolant radiator is now factory installed. 2015/2016 owners could buy the upgrade radiator to help with coolant temps. Extra brake cooling ducts supplied as standard equipment for Z06 and Z51 cars. 2015/2016 owners could buy the upgrade brake cooling ducts. Revised supercharger lid and internal heat exchangers to help with power reduction due to high intake manifold temps. No word on an upgrade for 2015/2016 owners.
The auxiliary coolant radiator does help reduce coolant and oil temps.
The problem with track use is intake air temps.
Example on a stock 2016 Z06 with the auxiliary radiator, 93 octane pump gas.
66 degrees ambient
70 degrees IAT
77 degrees IAT2
178 degrees manifold air temp
Total timing advance 11 degrees
-5.7 degrees IAT retard
-1.5 degrees knock retard
0 degrees coolant retard
You can feel the power reduction as the manifold air temp rises.
Even worse on an 80 degree ambient day.
Engine does not trigger limp mode due to coolant temps but power is reduced lap after lap as the manifold air temp rises and the engine will not rev past 5000 rpm.
IAT retard can reduce total timing by as much as 14 degrees based on manifold air temp inside the supercharger.
Also coolant temp can begin to reduce timing at 194 degrees coolant temp.
Example at 230 degrees coolant -5 degrees, 219 manifold air temp -11 degrees. Above 4000 rpm and high load total timing available is less than 20 degrees. Subtract 16 degrees plus any knock retard and you can understand the loss of power during track use.
The tables are used to protect the engine from damage. That is a good thing. The problem is high manifold air temps. Does the 2017 supercharger upgraded solve the problem?
Someone with a 2017 Z06 needs to log manifold air temp and total timing retard during track use on an 80 degree+ ambient day. To see if there is a large difference with the 2017 updates.
My C6/Z06 LS7 track car can run all day in 82 degree ambient with the water at 210 and the oil at 250 degrees.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay_Davis View Post
To be fair, I can't put all the blame on Tadge. There's lots of people that get involved in these decisions, lawyers, accountants, various levels of executives, etc. Things like this are rarely the result of one person. The way this, not to mention all the rest of the A8 issues, have been handled, is completely unacceptable, to the point where if nothing is done very soon I will never buy from GM again. But the blame has to be on GM as a whole, not one person, since there's no way for us to know exactly what has gone on which has caused us to get to this point.

Having said that, I do hold Tadge accountable for his previous statement that an upgrade kit would be available. To not even be willing to address the fact that its not is pretty bad.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:13 PM
  #13  
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I had a chance Friday at the Bash to ask Tadge about the upgrade from Gen I supercharger to Gen II super charger for 2015 & 2016 Z06 owners who track their car. He assured me they are working on it.
Also Callaway sells the 2017 Z06 Gen II superchargers they remove from their conversions to a wholesaler. Not sure who the wholesaler is. Maybe a source for an upgrade but could have issues with GM warranty if the parts were not purchased through GM.

Last edited by wstaab; 04-29-2017 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 06-28-2017, 01:29 PM
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Default Question for forum members

Since we are officially not allowed to ask a question regarding the above answer from Taste. hopefully someone will know the answer to my question.

Will the upgrade kit for 2015s and 2016s void my warranty and/or GM extended service contract?

I would prefer an official answer from GM, but at this point I will take what I can get.

It's (of course) my thought that the warranty and GM extended service contract should stay in tact. I don't have any issue with paying for the kit, as long as it is "reasonbly" priced.


question, we're officially done asking Tadge about upgrades to cooling/track performance/etc for the cars. I added the emphasis to the end of Tadge's response: take that as a gentle shot across the bow from me. No more. Feel free to discuss this answer all you'd like in this thread, but no more questions on that topic. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

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Old 06-28-2017, 06:37 PM
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Default Thank you Tadge!

Tadge,
Thank you for your detailed explanation of the upcoming Supercharger Cooling System Upgrade Kit for 2015 ZO6 owners like myself! I look forward to hearing the announcement on it's availability & cost.
Respectfully,
A satisfied C7 ZO6 Owner!
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Old 08-01-2017, 10:28 AM
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Did anything ever come of the mag-ride upgrades?
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Old 10-06-2017, 06:42 PM
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April 2017: "Finally, the 2017 supercharger upgrade kit: The hardware is already available piece-meal through service parts. We are working however, to assemble a kit that would make customer installation more straightforward. The kit would include the supercharger assembly, a new hood liner and a new calibration for automatic transmission vehicles (This calibration is not backwards compatible with 2015 and 16 cars but is important and is being re-developed for the earlier cars). We would like to offer the kit at a nice discount from the normal service parts cost to owners of 2015 and 2016 Z06's. Putting this all together is a fairly complex task, but we are making progress. "

2017 C7 Z06 with Gen 2 Supercharger was introduced April 2016, 18 months ago. April of 2017 Tadge said the are working on an upgrade package for 2015 and 2016 owners. Maybe with the intro of the C8 18 months from now, the upgrade for the C7 will be available. Very disappointing for the Corvette faithfull.
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:11 PM
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It's all smoke and mirrors...

Someone just flat out lied to us about this.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:35 PM
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Default Flat out Truth about GM's stated Lies to 2015, 2016 Z06 Corvette owners

You're correct in your statement about GM, "Smoke and Mirrors"
It appears that GM allows it's Chief Engineer and all of their upper management to make false statements in writing to 2015, 2016 ZO6 Corvette Owners. The truth is GM made specific commitments in writing to C7 ZO6 Owners that a Upgrade Kit is being developed to eliminate "Heat Soak Issues from the Eaton Supercharger" , not only was it stated that "currently the parts are available in piece meal"
they also stated "we will have a straight forward retrofit kit for 2015 & 2016 Z06 owners" to purchase at a reasonable price.
Both are flat out lies!
I attempted to ask for the part numbers for the "piece meal" parts & never received a response.
So, I can only assume there are no parts available?
​​If they we're, someone from GM would have easily given the parts numbers to me.
I found out that anytime any of us bring it up, some GM person closes the thread before anyone else can see it! Why the cloak & dagger??
If GM wants repeat business, from current customers, to purchase another new Corvette model the best way to do it is for GM to earn loyalty by simply following through on their commitments!
Instead, GM consistently pushes the Corvette faithful to their competitors performance vehicles!
All they need to do is to respond appropriately and professionally to our justifiable questions to allow customers the ability to follow up on their written commitments to create loyal customer service!
Instead, if they don't like what you say, they "Close the Post or Thread!
Which brings me to the pointless ability to get straight answers to their previous commitments they stated to us.
Another words, We are GM & we care less about any loyalty to our previous 2015 & 2016 Z06 Corvette owners, even though clearly stated several times that we acknowledge our customers do have heat soak issues. Please don't ask us anything we deem unworthy as we reserve to change our minds in keeping our word and commitment to our customers, that's all you need to know!
Lastly, this forum is not intended or designed to create customer loyalty, Instead of using it to create loyalty with current C7 Corvette ZO6 Owners like myself. By simply doing what they state they will do.
They have proven to me that they really don't care about exceeding customer expectations!
This is what makes Porsche customers so loyal!

​​
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:09 PM
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Well it looks like this thread went right off the rails, which is unfortunate. So I'm going to shut it down. But before I do that, let's make it perfectly clear for the folks that are new around here or have a mistaken understanding: No one from GM moderates any part of this entire Corvette Forum. No one. The moderators here are volunteers that have NOTHING TO DO with GM. At all.

No one from GM reads each of these questions and answer them. No one from GM (save for a couple of customer service reps) culls though the Corvette Forum looking for issues or questions to answer. In this forum, we select ONE question every other week and send THAT question to Tadge for his answer.

Tadge has made it very clear in one of his previous answers that when a kit becomes available and he has information on it to share, he will. No amount of asking, re-asking, and re-asking again is going to hurry that up. This is why I close the questions.

I'm sorry if you don't like that. But that's the way it's going to be here.
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