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[ANSWERED] Grand Sport / Z06 Wheels Bending

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Old 10-20-2017, 11:27 AM   #21  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersatz928 View Post
I just was indicating that Tadge was sorta hiding where the wheels are made.....his statement would have more integrity if he just stated that they are made in Mexico, rather than "North America". Also, nobody finds it strange that he indicates that they are made by Ronal, but many people have observed "Speedline" cast into the wheel....has anyone seen a GS wheel that has Ronal cast into it?????

It’s Ronal group which includes - Speeline Corse. Same company

97% of the business is OEM, Speedline is their “premium” brand
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:06 PM   #22  
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A few points/questions:

1 - Cast wheels are not automatically inferior, and there are different casting methods, some of which produce very strong wheels.

2 - The combination of RFT, low aspect ratio, and wide barrels yields wheels that are more likely to bend. I think Chevy should not have specified RFTs for these cars. They should just use standard tires and provide an inflator kit, like BMW does on its M cars. I will jet the RFTs as soon as they wear out. They are awful, IMO.

3 - My GS now has about 2,500 miles on it. It is a second car so I don't drive it where where the roads are rough (e.g., San Francisco), I'm super careful, and I haven't hit anything that would normally bend a wheel. There is no vibration that I can feel in the car, but one of the rear tires is losing 2-3 pounds of pressure per week. Usually this would indicate either a rim issue or an embedded nail, but I inspected the tire carefully and couldn't find any nail or screw. I plan to bring it to the dealer for inspection. How many people have had success getting wheels replaced under warranty?
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:34 PM   #23  
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I had to go back to my dealer today to pick up my car after the holed intercooler was replaced. I asked them again about the wheel and what I'd seen in this thread. I made very clear that I don't reasonably expect GM to replace the wheels under warranty but wanted to make sure they had the data on this issue since clearly they aren't getting it.

The service advisor didn't want to discuss it but eventually took me to see the service manager. I had to sit there and make him read the response from Tadge and in the end he agreed to at least go through some sort of process to notify engineering of the issue.

I think it's fair to say that very few people are going to pay dealer prices our of pocket to replace a broken OEM wheel. You can buy an entire set online for what two wheels would cost you at the dealer. I'm also wondering if dealers aren't interested in dealing with this because they sell aftermarket wheel warranties and want you to buy that when you buy the car.

I'm having my MPSS removed from the OEM wheels and put on a set of Forgeline/Katech wheels today. We'll see how they hold up.
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:56 PM   #24  
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I just do not want Chinese-made wheels on my all-American sports car. I do not believe it feasible to test the metallurgy on every wheel delivered for a mass produced car so you need to have confidence the manufacturer gets it right even when you are not looking. The wheels should be forged and made here, IMHO. This may raise the price, but so be it. Any car that can nudge 200 mph needs bulletproof wheels and tires.

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Old 10-20-2017, 07:31 PM   #25  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spearfish25 View Post
I appreciate the answer and insight. However if you haven’t heard of more bent wheels on these cars then GM needs to being listening better. I’ve bent two wheels which is a first in all of the vehicles I’ve ever owned. Further the use of cast rather than forged wheels in a performance car of this caliber is disappointing. I’ve owned sports cars that cost 1/2 as much and had OEM forged wheels. So while the engineering efforts may have been made to ensure wheel sufficiency, my experience as well as those of many others on this forum have been dramatically different. Wheels are one of the Achilles heels of the GS/Z06.
That is not what I read into what he said. He said there are more wide wheel cars in the market and more chance of some hitting pot holes! In 2017 about half the cars sold were Grand Sports, way higher percentage than Z06s in prior years. Could well be their statistics as a percentage of C7’s is accurate. Certainly our forum results with the vocal minority sounding off isn’t!

Re forged vs cast. The first Bash after the C7 was introduced they showed pics of wheels being made by Ronal who Tadge says makes the Grand Sport wheels. They used a process called rotary forging. There was a lot of cold work involved that would significantly increase sreangth. Therefore it would appear at least all Grand Sport wheels are forged! I know some have there own idea of what forging must be but the spin or rotary forging is an excellent process that increase the aluminum strength.

Just Say’n.

Last edited by JerryU; 10-21-2017 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:22 AM   #26  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersatz928 View Post
"North America" = Mexico

There are very few cars that come from the factory with forged wheels. Some Porsches come to mind.
My $40K 2013 370Z with Sports and Touring packages came with Rays forged wheels.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:23 AM   #27  
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Just GM trying to sweep a problem under the rug. It looks like they got burned trying to save money and are unwilling to admit it. I'm hesitant to buy a GS/Z06 since the ones I'm looking at are close to $80-90k sticker and I need to worry about road imperfections. Around here the bridges are not level with the road so you'll feel a good bump at the beginning and end of a bridge.

A friend's C6 ZR1 wheels with about 30k or more now have not had a problem with bent rims, with run flats and stock rims.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:24 AM   #28  
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I too thought the answer had insights BUT no acknowledgement that current wheel production or design is flawed.

Statistics can be viewed from many angles.
More wide bodies = more rim bending in count, yet what about the percentage increase?

The bottom-line being that wheel strength needs to be improved when designed for public road use.

Yet there is some market forces as owners do want light weight, low profile tires and artful design. Is lightweight worth annual rim replacement? Can laws be passed so municipalities can be easier sued for bad roads (haha I doubt that)? Should owners be aware of tire/ rim insurance policies and buy those packages knowing this rim design issue? As for warranty, it seems true these are "collision" claims, such as running up the curbs on a race track - hitting a pot hole - driving over a 2x4, and not wear and tear or a fatal design issue.

Seems to me the rims pass all GM tests when driven at race speeds on a smooth road surface, but have high failure on public roadways.

Tadge's reply was not his best.
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Old 10-21-2017, 06:20 PM   #29  
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You guys are a lot nicer than I would be. If I spent the kind of money on a new corvette z06 or grand sport that you did and only had 700 miles before the wheels bent, for no apparent reason, and no warranty, id be pretty upset, borderline irate. That's ridiculous. My grand sport has traveled Washington's roads where some should be rated 4x4 only and not had wheel issues. Still running the goodyear run flats too. I bought it used for under half what you guys paid. From a outsider looking in, it looks to be really not fair and not very nice to people that spent a hell of a lot of money on GM's product. I work for a Paccar product dealer and I see my manufacturer stepping up all the time on parts that could easily be blamed on the owner or conditions outside of normal ware and tare. Granted, add $100k to the price you paid for your vette, and that's what a nicely equipped Peterbilt 389 costs. But if we stiffed customers like that, we would loose customers. Public spaces and word of mouth travels fast and can really put a manufacturer in the spot light rather quickly.
My 2005 Dodge Ram2500 had the stub axle u-joints completely fail at 110k miles. Well beyond the 100k warranty I had. The needle bearings were completely gone. I believe if your going to install non serviceable parts (non greaseable) in a critical area, then you should spend the extra $10 or $20 on the quality part that will last. If not, then put the greaseable spicers in. I lit Dodge up on they're Facebook page. It was such a stupid part to skimp on. Next thing I know I got a pm from the head shed customer service person asking for my contact info and that "Mike" from one of the division's want to speak with me.
I got a call the next day that they wanted to pay for the repair. I did it myself in the drive way but I called an off road shop and was quoted $650 just in labor. I went to NAPA and got my parts and Dodge reimbursed me the $110.00 I paid for them. They would have paid the shop too.
I was blown away! And that's why I will only buy Dodge Ram trucks!
Hey GM, you reading this? Heard of customer service? Heard that happy customers come back?
Guess not.
I feel bad for my fellow vette owners and I sincerely hope GM can take a page out of Dodge's book.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:23 PM   #30  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red62vette View Post
A few points/questions:

1 - Cast wheels are not automatically inferior, and there are different casting methods, some of which produce very strong wheels.

2 - The combination of RFT, low aspect ratio, and wide barrels yields wheels that are more likely to bend. I think Chevy should not have specified RFTs for these cars. They should just use standard tires and provide an inflator kit, like BMW does on its M cars. I will jet the RFTs as soon as they wear out. They are awful, IMO.

3 - My GS now has about 2,500 miles on it. It is a second car so I don't drive it where where the roads are rough (e.g., San Francisco), I'm super careful, and I haven't hit anything that would normally bend a wheel. There is no vibration that I can feel in the car, but one of the rear tires is losing 2-3 pounds of pressure per week. Usually this would indicate either a rim issue or an embedded nail, but I inspected the tire carefully and couldn't find any nail or screw. I plan to bring it to the dealer for inspection. How many people have had success getting wheels replaced under warranty?
agreed - not having this issue in viperland with even wider tires/wheel assemblies. however we have non-run flats with an inflator pump.. maybe the solution is non-run flat tires and AAA. run flats i believe are quite heavy comparativly.

Last edited by Z06_BluByU; 10-21-2017 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:32 AM   #31  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi-Jurist View Post
First, let me thank you for answering my question, and every question posed to you here. We appreciate having this direct line of communication more than you can know.

I believe the Z51 wheels (my last car was a 2015 Z51) are made in China, but you are correct, the origin of the wheel doesn't really matter, it's the wheel's strength and other characteristics that are important. As others have pointed out, the problem seems to be that GM chose a cast wheel over a similar forged design.

I am most intrigued by this statement: "I have heard from some people that there is a theory that running the car in sport or track can contribute to damaging a wheel. That is not true." Where we are getting this theory is from none other than ... your dealerships. Yes, it's the service advisors, mechanics and even sales reps that warn of driving in track mode and (some even warn of) sport mode. The theory would seem to have some merit, as the energy of a pothole impact would seem to be less concentrated on the wheel and spread more throughout the suspension with a more forgiving setting like tour mode, and conversely to concentrate more energy transfer (and potential for harm) on the wheel when the suspension soaks up much less of the impact. I would love to hear the science and engineering that went into this comment.

"Our field data does not suggest a recent significant increase in the wheel damage rate on our cars." I don't know from which sources you derive your "field data," but as others have noted, there are too many reports on these pages of wide stock wheels bending for no good reason for GM to sweep this under the rug. I personally had two wheels bend with about 700 miles on the odometer of my new Grand Sport. This resulted in a considerable vibration that made the car essentially undrivable at higher speed for any length of time. The dealership fed me the "we've never heard of this happening to anyone in the history of the world" line and claimed that neither had their GM area rep. After sending the dealership an email (of course, the GM rep would never give out his direct email) linking to story after story after story of people on this forum having the same exact problem AND having their wheels replaced under warranty (thereby giving GM knowledge of the issue), I stopped hearing that line from the dealer, but never got an answer to my MANY questions of "so what did the GM rep say when you showed him my email?" Zip. Zero. Nada. I guess admitting and owning up to your faults, whether intentional or not, is not a strong suit of the Glenview, IL area rep.

The dealer diagnosed that the front left wheel was bent, and the GM rep said they would replace it "as a matter of customer goodwill" since the car was essentially brand new and there was no outward signs of damage. While I certainly appreciated this, he was certain to make clear that this was a one-time only deal. Only problem was that the dealership did not fully diagnose the problem, as I learned after the front wheel was replaced and the car still shook at 80 mph (instead of starting at 40 mph like before). The culprit? The first time around, the dealer failed to notice that the left rear wheel had also been bent.

What followed was 3 weeks of trying to get the GM rep to authorize replacement of the rear wheel, only to be told "nope, we said one and we meant one." Of course, no one could answer what would have happened if the dealership had correctly diagnosed both wheels the first time out, but thankfully my wheel warranty stepped up and paid the bill. I actually feel bad for them because, despite your answer, I see this as a defect in the wheel design, material and/or construction, and GM should have covered it.

This is a long way of saying your "field data" is corrupted and unreliable. You have a GM rep in the "field" out there pretending there is no issue, and then clamming up when shown evidence that there is an issue, all while refusing to take financial responsibility for said issue. I urge you to look further into this because we, the owners who have experienced bent wheels, can most certainly assure you this is a major issue for us.

Again, thank you for your time and consideration. If any of the above came off as harsh or untoward, that was not my intention. I am, I'm sure, venting a little frustration in your direction, but I assure you it's nothing personal. I have the utmost respect for you and your team, and I love my C7 (or I wouldn't have bought two of them), but I do want to see the company that makes by beloved C7 step up and fix something that everyone knows to be a problem. Please be as good a car company as you are sports car designers.
Thank you, sir, for this epistle. I had been considering a new 2018 Z06 for myself...I'm 71 and love my 2007 Z06. I've been through the mill with my LS7 valve problems on it; now there's no doubt I'll just ditch the idea of getting screwed over by GM again. "Big Red" will be driven to extinction, at which time I may suffer the same fate from age or infirmity
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:14 AM   #32  
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Wow, this is mind boggling to me that a brand new car would have Factory wheels get damaged so fast from regular driving?! Haven't heard of this ever before on any car until reading it here.

For whatever reason, being design, to manufacturing issues, this is just not right on GM's behalf.

I have an '08 C6 with wide rear and have had 3 different sets of repros in Z06/GS sizes (can't justify spending the big bucks on the big name wheels, as awesome as they look). All made in China, and NEVER any issue despite daily driving over all kinds of roads. Ditched the runflats long ago, but that honestly shouldn't be an issue anyways.

A C7 Grandsport is somewhere in my future, but this definitely doesn't make me run out to get one anytime soon. The WHOLE car must be made to withstand the riggers of daily driving, especially after only 700 miles?!??! Crazy.
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Old 10-23-2017, 03:02 PM   #33  
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Sorry but this was the typical GM response.

You bought it, its your problem. We cannot see any problem that warrants us spending a dime to help.

Tadge has given many good and well thought out responses but this was NOT one of them. Just refusing to admit any sort of issue exists.

And for what its worth, the black wheels on my Z06 which are among the most popular of wheel options are clearly imprinted CHINA in the casting.
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Old 10-23-2017, 03:09 PM   #34  
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I had always assumed OEM GM wheels were strong and light enough so you could track your car safely on them using any DOT legal rubber. I certainly hope GM spends the money to make this so. If OEM GM wheels break and someone runs off track, I would assume GM could find themselves in a pickle....

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Old 10-26-2017, 10:20 PM   #35  
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This thread makes me nervous. I have bent rims on my C7 Z51 but it has a ton of really hard track days on it including offs and spins, so not a big deal there.

However...

I just purchased a 2018 Z06 Z07 and do not want to run into bent wheel issues.

GM's customer service is largely in the toilet. Most dealers use service advisers to serve as gatekeepers to ensure the dealer gets paid for work. Warranty issues where the dealer may not get paid almost always get dismissed prima facie.

I've owned Lexus & Mercedes vehicles & the dealership experience is night and day.

It's hurting GM because no matter how good the Corvette/Camaro is, people demand better service and will walk to other brands that actually know what that means.

I took my Z06 in to a local dealer (Capital Chevrolet in Raleigh) that refused to perform the 500 mile oil service because they didn't want to risk damaging the car pulling in on their lifts. They also refused to address a TSB I asked about, and refused to address two paint/trim defects that I did not see when I took delivery of the vehicle 10 days earlier.

Really????

Last edited by Newton06; 10-26-2017 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:57 PM   #36  
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Originally Posted by Newton06 View Post
This thread makes me nervous. I have bent rims on my C7 Z51 but it has a ton of really hard track days on it including offs and spins, so not a big deal there.

However...

I just purchased a 2018 Z06 Z07 and do not want to run into bent wheel issues.

GM's customer service is largely in the toilet. Most dealers use service advisers to serve as gatekeepers to ensure the dealer gets paid for work. Warranty issues where the dealer may not get paid almost always get dismissed prima facie.

I've owned Lexus & Mercedes vehicles & the dealership experience is night and day.

It's hurting GM because no matter how good the Corvette/Camaro is, people demand better service and will walk to other brands that actually know what that means.

I took my Z06 in to a local dealer (Capital Chevrolet in Raleigh) that refused to perform the 500 mile oil service because they didn't want to risk damaging the car pulling in on their lifts. They also refused to address a TSB I asked about, and refused to address two paint/trim defects that I did not see when I took delivery of the vehicle 10 days earlier.

Really????
I can sympathize. A few years ago, I won a free oil change at a CORVETTE show at a Chevy dealership. When I went to take my Vette in for the change, they didn't want to do it and said they can't take responsibility if they damage my car during the change?!? Un-friggan- believable!
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Old 10-27-2017, 02:32 PM   #37  
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Ok, so WHO here started driving in TRACK mode after reading Tadge's response? (I'm not going past Sport mode.)
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Old 10-27-2017, 06:44 PM   #38  
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2014 C7, 2015 Z06, 2017 Z06
2009 ZR1 yet to bent a factory wheel. So not everyone is affected by the bending wheels. In fact I'm looking for a UPS to bring set of cups to come today! I would not let that affect any purchase decision.

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Old 10-28-2017, 02:02 PM   #39  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quick04Z06 View Post
I just do not want Chinese-made wheels on my all-American sports car. I do not believe it feasible to test the metallurgy on every wheel delivered for a mass produced car so you need to have confidence the manufacturer gets it right even when you are not looking. The wheels should be forged and made here, IMHO. This may raise the price, but so be it. Any car that can nudge 200 mph needs bulletproof wheels and tires.
LOL. Guns, god and apple pie! What % of your all American sports car do you think is made in the U, S of A?
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Old 10-28-2017, 02:03 PM   #40  
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I think it sucks that the Camaro 1LE and CTS-V get forged wheels but the Z06 does not...
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