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Why no factory harness mounts?

 
Old 05-11-2018, 11:34 AM
  #1  
dparm
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Default Why no factory harness mounts?

With so many track-optimized features offered, why doesn't Chevrolet offer a dealer-installed accessory harness bar? Coupled with the Competition Seats, this could make a huge difference in driver safety and comfort during HPDE usage.

Other manufacturers already offer these in some of their more track-focused vehicles, and even go as far as offering seats with anti-sub belt provisions.
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:38 PM
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stevebz06
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GM seemingly encourages you to take your car to the track but if you do and then bring the car into a dealership for work, the probability is high that they will void the factory warranty. I'm going to guess that offering parts that tangibly show encouragement to drive the car on track in a semi-competitive environment is pushing the corporate boundary.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dparm View Post
With so many track-optimized features offered, why doesn't Chevrolet offer a dealer-installed accessory harness bar?
1. Cost
2. Liability

The second one should be pretty simple to figure out. The first one is a bit more insidious. Anything like that would be considered a "passenger restraint" and would have to be included in crash testing. That would, essentially, double the number of cars GM would have to test: one with the normal belts, and one with some harnesses attached to the anchor points.

Marking it "For offroad use only" would last for about half a second in a court of law, should GM get sued after an accident on the road.

That's why.
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Old 05-11-2018, 03:13 PM
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I think a huge wing and or spoiler thatís made for the track make your points moot.

Not to mention the car having a performance data recorder.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pjazz View Post
I think a huge wing and or spoiler that’s made for the track make your points moot.
How?

Last edited by jvp; 05-11-2018 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jvp View Post
How?
I was referring to Steve's point
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:46 PM
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Mcrider
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GM markets the ZR1 has the ultimate performance car in their stable and the various modes of driving with one saying "Track" pretty much tells everybody this is a race car you can drive on the street and the track. Adding harness points is a natural for this car.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pjazz View Post
I was referring to Steve's point
Gotcha.

Originally Posted by Mcrider
GM markets the ZR1 has the ultimate performance car in their stable and the various modes of driving with one saying "Track" pretty much tells everybody this is a race car you can drive on the street and the track.
Uh. "Track" modes are available in any of the Corvettes with the MRC. So, wanna try again? This is primarily a street car that can be driven quite quickly on the track. There's a big difference.
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Old 05-12-2018, 06:35 AM
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Mcrider
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Originally Posted by jvp View Post
Gotcha.

Marking it "For offroad use only" would last for about half a second in a court of law, should GM get sued after an accident on the road.


Uh. "Track" modes are available in any of the Corvettes with the MRC. So, wanna try again? This is primarily a street car that can be driven quite quickly on the track. There's a big difference.
Your own words skewer you. A first year attorney would win this one. Putting "for off road use"would subject them to liability but putting "Track" mode as a setting won't? The SEATS are called "competition" seats. The automotive reviews say over and over this is a race car you can drive on the street. Where do you think that saying comes from when it's used over and over? How about GM marketing?

From R&T
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-specs-photos/

"the fact that an active wing would have been a packaging nightmare on the C7, led Chevy to offer a pair of fixed wing designs, as well as a clever front underwing designed to balance out the additional rear downforce without making the car unusable on the street. It gives the ZR1 an estimated 950 lbs. of downforce near its top speed".

Pay attention to the "without making the car UNUSABLE ON THE STREET".

Now, do YOU wanna try again?
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:41 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
Now, do YOU wanna try again?
Keep swinging, dude. Eventually you'll get a hit.

You literally have no idea how the FMVSS works as it pertains to passenger restraining systems and how they need to be tested, I see. What's written in the press and the names GM puts on a seat(!) or driving modes have literally no bearing on a liability case when it comes to things like FMVSS.

Simply put: any OEM passenger restraining system MUST be tested to meet federal collision standards. That means that GM would have to donate another car with the crash test dummy strapped into some harness (that would also have to be sold with the car) and destroy it to make sure the restraints work.

Today, if a cop pulled someone over in a Corvette with an aftermarket harness on and not his seatbelt, he could be given a seatbelt ticket. Even though his harnesses may be infinitely safer than the 3-point OEM belts, they weren't tested that way.
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:04 AM
  #11  
Mcrider
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Originally Posted by jvp View Post
Keep swinging, dude. Eventually you'll get a hit.

You literally have no idea how the FMVSS works as it pertains to passenger restraining systems and how they need to be tested, I see. What's written in the press and the names GM puts on a seat(!) or driving modes have literally no bearing on a liability case when it comes to things like FMVSS.

Simply put: any OEM passenger restraining system MUST be tested to meet federal collision standards. That means that GM would have to donate another car with the crash test dummy strapped into some harness (that would also have to be sold with the car) and destroy it to make sure the restraints work.

Today, if a cop pulled someone over in a Corvette with an aftermarket harness on and not his seatbelt, he could be given a seatbelt ticket. Even though his harnesses may be infinitely safer than the 3-point OEM belts, they weren't tested that way.

Here we go again, you're predictable in your "nobody else knows anything, or as much as I do" bullshit you constantly spew. FACT, you take a ZR1 into court and convince a jury it's NOT built for the track in ANY way. Your bullshit goes right out the window. Ask a ladder manufacturer about product liability.

You're not nearly as wise as you think you are. You can attempt to split hairs any way you want, but when it comes down to the REAL world, you got just split hairs.

BTW, "dude" is used by the beavis and butthead disciples....

Last edited by Mcrider; 05-12-2018 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:45 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
BTW, "dude" is used by the beavis and butthead disciples....
I need to stop you right there guy.. Beavis and Butthead are good people! Lol
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:48 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
Here we go again, you're predictable in your "nobody else knows anything, or as much as I do" bullshit you constantly spew. FACT, you take a ZR1 into court and convince a jury it's NOT built for the track in ANY way. Your bullshit goes right out the window. Ask a ladder manufacturer about product liability.

You're not nearly as wise as you think you are. You can attempt to split hairs any way you want, but when it comes down to the REAL world, you got just split hairs.

BTW, "dude" is used by the beavis and butthead disciples....
McRider,

Why GT2RS and GT3RS cannot equip their cars with roll cages in the US?

Last edited by Telepierre; 05-12-2018 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:03 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
Here we go again, you're predictable in your "nobody else knows anything, or as much as I do" bullshit you constantly spew. FACT, you take a ZR1 into court and convince a jury it's NOT built for the track in ANY way. Your bullshit goes right out the window. Ask a ladder manufacturer about product liability.

You're not nearly as wise as you think you are. You can attempt to split hairs any way you want, but when it comes down to the REAL world, you got just split hairs.

BTW, "dude" is used by the beavis and butthead disciples....
I think you may have misunderstood what JVP was saying. He wasn't saying anything about the car not being designed or allowed for track use. He was simply saying that all the legalities and regulations involved with seatbelts would require additional testing/certifications to allow a five point harness to be sold as an option.

With that said, I do agree it would be a great option. I got to ride in a Z06 with the ceramic brakes for the first time on Palm Beach International Raceway and it was really tossing me hard into the belt. It would have been much more comfortable with a racing harness. Of course it's possible. It may or may not have already been considered and deemed cost ineffective by GM at some point.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:35 PM
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Its a street car. Quit drinking the GM advertising & magazine Koolaid.

With a 6 point you need a HANS and a helmet to be anywhere near the safety of the restraints and airbags. Then you need a full cage to insure the window frame and sides. Then you need side nets and a containment seat????

Actually got pulled over on the way to Sebring while using a 6 point and race seat. Officer offered not to write me a ticket if I wore a helmet and HANS, so I did on the street. But felt pretty stupid as he was a racer, educated and correct.

Why do you think the front ends on new cars are so butt ugly? Crash regs and pedestrian impact regs. GM wont take any chances with anything.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by blkbrd69 View Post
Its a street car. Quit drinking the GM advertising & magazine Koolaid.

With a 6 point you need a HANS and a helmet to be anywhere near the safety of the restraints and airbags. Then you need a full cage to insure the window frame and sides. Then you need side nets and a containment seat????

Actually got pulled over on the way to Sebring while using a 6 point and race seat. Officer offered not to write me a ticket if I wore a helmet and HANS, so I did on the street. But felt pretty stupid as he was a racer, educated and correct.

Why do you think the front ends on new cars are so butt ugly? Crash regs and pedestrian impact regs. GM wont take any chances with anything.

LOL this thread is a year old, and the mod already said he's not sending this to Tadge.
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:00 AM
  #17  
Rinaldo Catria
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Just my 2cents. Car should have 6 pt harness option with Simpson hybrid restraint system. You would think there would be more liability offering the car as is WITHOUT them.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rinaldo Catria View Post
Just my 2cents. Car should have 6 pt harness option with Simpson hybrid restraint system. You would think there would be more liability offering the car as is WITHOUT them.
All well and good, but the car would have to be crash-tested to validate their safety on the road. So here's your 2 cents in change.
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