Tyteflows

i agree with nyc6, to optimize your listening pleasure and gain full access to the speaker potential you need to match the wattage rms of the speakers as closely as possible to the rms of a quality amplifier, dont pay attention to peak power, that is there to trick noobs. rms is where its at. crutchfield has a killer jl audio amp, class D monoblock amp for less than $130 bucks right now that would send your sub into another dimension. you have to get the wattage to them though for full spectrum listening, if you are underpowering them then its going to sound like crap, you should have at least 2 amps for your setup, one 2 or 4 channel amp for the highs and one class D monoblock for the subs.

you bought amazing speakers man, dont go cheap on the amps (or wiring), you've come too far now and are only 1 quality amplifier away from turning your sound system into a complete beast.

good luck

peace,
mike

nickwfd92

It sounds as tho your installer did not tune the system right. Go with the advise above and set the gains on the amps. You should also be able to tweek things with the EQ on the headunit.
USB and CD's will sound superior to Radio, thats because of the bandwith of Radio. Also make sure your MP3's are ripped at the highest quality possible I use 320 or higher on mine.
Every system is different but you should be able to get that system to sound really good with a little tuning and tweeking with the gains and EQ levels.
Good luck

tampatopless

Check the fuse on the cargo lights. There is a fuse box layout somewhere on this website.

PS I went with a lower end JL system - amp, two-ways in the door, straight 5.25 coax in the rear and the Kenwood head unit. Getting ready to add the sub. Vast improvement over stock.

muhammed ibrahim

it is a tough choice actually but hey every brand has it's personality so, if you are seeking something that is so expensive but sure it is very premium you can go with hertz.

on the other side if you're seeking a reasonable speaker and kind of a premium speaker that has Awesome design you should go with the JL speakers

whatever before you do any of this
check this review for the best hertz 6.5 inch speakers
and this review for the best 6 inch JL speakers

racebum

did anyone in here ask you if you like klipsch? the JL c5 or better vs hertz isn't really a better/best type thing. they simply sound different. hertz is klipsch. it's forward, some may say lively sounding. the C5 from JL is nearfield. small acoustic room sounding. deeper. the c5 is where the JL mids and tweets worth buying begin. it's all made by LPG in germany. if any of you go JL the c5, c7 and zr are the 3 german ones and they sound a lot better than the c2 and c3 from china

audison even does something similar with their audison speakers and hertz. same company. completely different sound

at $500-600 the morel hybrid is the one that excited me. i currently have these in my 4runner and tried a few different speakers before i found what i liked

if i think if it were me i may have gone JL for your two choices in a corvette. hertz gets loud and sounds loud; in such a small cabin that's exaggerated further. the JL is deeper, more relaxed midrange. softer tweeter that sounds pretty nice off axis as you have in a corvette door

02BlownZ06

This is an excellent analysis and explanation and breakdown of the sound characteristics between brands. I have fairly high end Klipsch for my 7.2 home theater/audio setup in my home. I love it for home theater and it provides tremendous spl levels and is a very clean, but bright sound, a little too much for me for pure audio listening. For pure audio, I have a completely different 2 channel system that I spin vinyl with that is heaven-like to the ears.

If your analysis is correct, the JL's would be the way to go for me. I have Rockford fanatics front and rear which are accurate and loud but I want something a little softer, smoother, less midrange and an overall refinement from bottom to top. Thanks for the heads up on the higher end JL's. I have ran JL audio subs for years and have always been happy with their performance.

racebum

get the morel hybrid 602. the JL isn't a perfect speaker and the bottom of the tweeter is kind of shrilly with some sounds. dynamic autosound in santa ana california will wheel and deal on morel and they are authorized. you should be able to haggle a set of the 602 hybrids down to 500 shipped and they are better than the c5. songs like pink floyd's money with that guitar strum can get a bit harsh with some speakers. with the morel it's pretty accurate. the JL had a hard time with that. some pop voices, same deal. one thing morel does with the hybrid and elate is cross the tweeter low. on the hybrid it's 2200hz this brings the sound stage higher and cuts out the top end of the woofer break up some sets have when they run a 6.5" cone to 4000hz. morel starts to really get good at the hybrid and above. the elate is simply amazing. the c5 is a good speaker but it has a couple of bad behaviors with various instruments that the hybrid does much better. when playing flat the hybrid is also more neutral. if you want some twinkle you can boost 12 and 16khz but flat it will be flat. if you want a deeper sound you can cut 1-3khz but again, flat it will be more forward.

at $500-600 a set the hybrid 602 is my absolute favorite speaker in a car until you get to 1000 dollars or so

if you need help negotiating with dynamic let me know. i can make it happen for you {probably}

subs are a different story. JL makes a GREAT sub that moves air and has some of the best output for the size required. the new 10 and 12 w6v3 are excellent sounding woofers that can work in insanely small boxes. you can even get more low end out of them with a natural 2db gain at 35hz putting the 10 in .9cuft up from .55 and the 12 in 1.4cuft up from 1.0. this also would be a qtc.707 alignment. with music like hip hop or edm it often sounds better especially in larger vehicles. so much flexibility with that new w6

mentioning of JL you know what surprise me. it's those new HD amps. yes they aren't bad and yes they are excellent for class d.....however....the slash 300/4v3 is still a better sounding, more dynamic amplifier for mids and highs. the HD tries to be a clean great sounding amp but it's hollow. i may be a bit more fanatical than the average guy even having large B&W kevlar cones staring back at me on each side of my monitor

the difference between JL and morel is so pronounced you can even hear it in a youtube video. i have the hybrid on the left, JL on the right. you can listen and watch me switch left to right. some vocals around the 2:30min mark really really have a drastic difference. the c5 isn't a bad speaker it's just missing a lot of detail the hybrid brings out. the hybrid also reproduces many sounds in a more pleasing way to the ear when you get more difficult tones...like that guitar strum i was talking about with floyd. to anyone that is curious watch all 5 min on a decent set of speakers. youtube compresses and yes it isn't accurate but you still can hear a VERY pronounced difference

02BlownZ06

Thanks for the heads up! Many moons ago I managed an audio store and we sold some high end stuff. I have always kind of carried that with me as a hobby but I have been away from the car audio game for a number of years and can't believe how much it has changed. Are you talking about the Morel Hybrids or Hybrid Integra 602's? Like you, I am extremely picky about the sound quality and I won't stop until I can sit down in my car, crank it up and it sounds like I want it to sound. I had JL audio 10w6's original series in corner enclosures in my C5 and they pounded nicely but just don't get downstairs like they should. I blame it on the enclosures not large enough for the subs. I plunked down on a set of Sundown Audio 10's that were rated all the way down to .5 cf box and they sound wayyyyy better, but they are much newer also. And still, the Sundowns just don't reach quite far enough down to where I am happy. I am really thinking of going a single JL audio 12w6v3 single sub in the centerwell area at the back of the car. If the Morels are that much better than the JL's, then that would be my choice for main speakers also. I have heard a lot of good comments about Morel.

racebum

the people at morel are fanatical about tonal balance. they actually have a home speaker called the fat lady that uses carbon drivers and a carbon enclosure. get this though. the enclosure is tuned to resonate with the drivers for perfect phase alignment.

the hybrid 602 is a component the hybrid integra 602 is a co-ax. what you heard in the youtube video is the component. the 10 or 12w6 are good subs but for marketing reasons JL keeps the boxes small. granted the new v3 has a lot more output and can sound reasonably well in smaller boxes you get a natural gain of 2db at 1w/1m putting the 12 in 1.44 cubic feet vs 1 cubic foot and it requires less power to reach xmax and max spl. kind of a double win really

other things worth sharing. class d amps, at least none i have heard can rival a good class a/b or class a. with JL for example the 300/4v3 slash is still a better sounding more dynamic amp than the HD which is extremely good for class d. it just doesn't have the dynamic punch. then again if you have limited space the HD 900/5 fits about anywhere and runs a system.

if you go sealed a parametric eq is gold. the JL 600/1v3 has a single band parametric and one of my favorite current SQ decks is the alpine w960. it also has a 9 band parametric. this mean that combo has a dual bass parametric. you can center at 30-35hz and 45hz and mess about until you get a flat response to 30-35hz a lot of which will be provided by cabin gain

if you want to go really low, like home theater low it will require large ported boxes. w6 isn't really a great ported choice as it requires a really long port not to be peaky. the 10w3v3 will have an f3 of 24hz in 1.9 cubic feet using a 3"x12.5" precision port. this would create a ton of output down low. it would also be ridiculously efficient only needing about 250-300rms on an amplifier. just depends on the sound you're going for. sealed is so much easier to get right in a car. smaller and you can eq them to a flat roll off

i have tried a lot of speakers over the last year to find a good sound without going broke buying exotics. what i arrived at was this

deck. alpine w960
front stage: morel hybrid 602
rear fill: morel tempo ultra integra
mids/tweets amp: JL 300/4v3
sub amp JL 600/1v3
sub: JL 12w6v3 in 1.4cubic feet sealed

this is in a 4runner by the way. in the corvette i probably could have gotten by with a 10w6v3 in .9cu sealed as the cabin gain would be much greater

it would blow your mind what a drastic difference in sound the deck can make. this system sounds amazing like this. switch that deck for a pioneer nex 4200 and the SQ goes downhill quick. currently alpine is the only really good SQ deck out there. sony is an honorable mention and decks like their xav-ax100 are really not bad. better than kenwood and pioneer. kenwood actually isn't that bad either. they have issues but pioneer is the colored one in double din

you have choices in amps but the JL slash are work horses and designed by the guy who made the old school precision power amps that were so good. if you hear a JL c5 in person vs a hybrid it's amazing how much more refined the hybrid is for not much more money. the c5 is a good speaker, the hybrid is just a bit better. it doesn't have the bad behaviors the c5 does.

if you grew up in the days of dynaudio, zapco, the phoenix gold ZPA's and what not you will be hard to please with current car audio. lot of it is about features. the good SQ stuff is kind of hidden and less popular as it's more expensive and many people don't care. audison is also still making great high end amps and processors. decks have been the real kick in the pants. pioneer is all features these days. like i was saying earlier. only alpine is really making a good SQ double din with the 960 and up. burr brown 24bit DAC, clean line voltage etc

02BlownZ06

It's all starting to make sense now. I was a die hard Alpine head unit guy since the 80's. I have always liked the SQ out of the higher end head units I have had from them over the years. I was talked into a Pioneer AVIC-7200 and I like it, the features and options are awesome, but the SQ has been a concern. I thought it could be my system but even with the very best sources, I just don't quite have the SQ I had in the past. I have the same high end Rockford Fosgate Power series amps and RF Fanatic components but the SQ is flat and unimpressive. Does the w960 sound that much better?? I was going to upgrade all of my components a little at a time and I started with my head unit. Sounds like I should have stayed with Alpine. That's a sweet looking system you have put together. Updating my amps and speakers are next. I am with you, I don't want to deal with ported in my C5. A sealed box is way easier to achieve good overall accuracy and the low end punch I like.

racebum

night and f'king day

let me put it this way. i mic'd a nex4200 and had perfect time alignment, fiddled with the eq

the alpine with nothing done smoked it in SQ. write down your time alignment settings with the pioneer as that mic is great for getting time alignment right and is more accurate than a tape measure. you set time alignment differently with alpine and if you need any help message me. it's a different process but your pioneer numbers help. pioneer is more like home audio where you delay the sub the least by making it the greatest distance. with alpine the sub is zero and the front and rear stage are delayed.

pioneer is colored. you don't hear detail. it kind of produces the same sound. 1-5khz just never sounds right and there is this forced roll off above 14khz. sounds are not produced correctly

move to alpine and i can hear an artist breathe. it's airy, it sounds more like mid range home gear. there is no artificial midbass like the pioneer created.

02BlownZ06

No chit??? I am pissed that I went Pioneer now against my own better judgement. You're spot on about the midrange area, it has sounded like crap from day one. I haven't done the mic'd time alignment yet but sounds like I need to. I have tweaked with just about everything else though including trying the different soundstage settings and adjusting the crossover points ad naseum to get at least a reasonable sound. The only source I have played that has sounded worthy is a concert DVD of the Talking Heads - Stop Making Sense. It woke my whole system up. Music on original compact disc is just not what it used to be with my Alpine head unit. The Pioneer looks sweet and has great features but I gotta have sound quality. My current system is the Pioneer Avic-7200 feeding a RF Power 750s and 750x with Rockford Fanatic components $400/set at the time, front and rear, Sundown Audio 10's in the rear corners. This same system with JL Audio 10's and an alpine HU up front sounded phenomenal in my truck.

racebum

yeah. welcome to my world. i feel you. that's modern pioneer. a guy i know at the local audio store who is a big audison / morel guy. has a 20k dollar install in his own car, listened to mine and was like....let's try something when i had the nex. grabbed the alpine 960. we hooked it up. system turned to magic and he made a sale. he said there have been 2 brands that made true SQ decks. alpine and eclipse. only one is left standing. after listening to pioneer, kenwood, alpine, sony...i agree. it's just alpine with sony being in 2nd place on their better decks

you could have the best gear in the world and that nex deck will make it sound colored. get a good deck and make tweaks from there. until then you're fighting handicapped. the 960 or 960hdmi is where the good alpine starts and while it doesn't have the features of the pioneer it does have good nav and a very responsive screen. using it seems less intuitive than the pioneer but once you figure it out it's very easy. just makes you kind of irked at first until you figure out the menu system.

i would not change any of your other components until you get a good deck. from there you can tweak if need be

02BlownZ06

Do you think specifically the 960? What about the INE-W957? Whoever told you it was Alpine and Eclipse is correct. At least back in the day, those were the two premier head unit lines and like you said only one standing. I guess I am selling an AVIC-7200 as I don't think I would even put it in my Suburban.

02BlownZ06

Oh and I am betting you wrote this review, LOL. Scroll down a ways, it's a few reviews in.....

racebum

957 is great from what i have seen. basically anything above the 960. the review i wrote is the one that said great SQ with so-so features. that's basically it. other decks have more features and even better gui's but they just don't deliver the goods

also note the only difference between the 960 and 960hdmi is the hdmi port and possibly an updated nav map sd card. the plain 960 can be a better value if you don't care about the hdmi. it's older but the street price is about 475 or 100-125 under the hdmi version.

the reason i got the 960 is because it was inexpensive vs the flagships, has the same dac's and the features i need. if you want auto android or carplay you will be spending more as you move up the line.

alpine only has 4 double dins http://alpine-usa.com/product/catego...its-head-units

the only one i'm unsure of is the ilx-007. it's spec'd with only a 2v pre out which tells me it's likely not the same dac and pre out stage as the 960, 957 or 967

if you want to bounce ideas off a very skilled dealer peter at mobil west in portland oregon does some of the ultra high end installs in our area. any alpine specific SQ questions he would be more than happy to answer. same with alpine tech support. most the time you get some guy in the back room who is very familiar with their gear

on the bright side that pioneer 7200 is worth a lot with completed auctions for used mint ones being about 570-600 dollars. how i wish an alpine dac and pre out could be put in that 7200. that deck literally does it all feature wise

02BlownZ06

[QUOTE=racebum;1594612924

if you grew up in the days of dynaudio, zapco, the phoenix gold ZPA's and what not you will be hard to please with current car audio. lot of it is about features. the good SQ stuff is kind of hidden and less popular as it's more expensive and many people don't care. audison is also still making great high end amps and processors. decks have been the real kick in the pants. pioneer is all features these days. like i was saying earlier. only alpine is really making a good SQ double din with the 960 and up. burr brown 24bit DAC, clean line voltage etc

if you want to bounce ideas off a very skilled dealer peter at mobil west in portland oregon does some of the ultra high end installs in our area. any alpine specific SQ questions he would be more than happy to answer. same with alpine tech support. most the time you get some guy in the back room who is very familiar with their gear

on the bright side that pioneer 7200 is worth a lot with completed auctions for used mint ones being about 570-600 dollars. how i wish an alpine dac and pre out could be put in that 7200. that deck literally does it all feature wise
Last edited by racebum; Yesterday at 09:41 PM.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I was fresh out of high school in the fledgling days of competition car audio in the late 80's. I even moved to Phoenix to work at a really high end car audio store and toured the Rockford Fosgate factory with a sales rep. I instantly became a fan and still own an old school Punch 150 that continues to pound some old Rockford Audiophile 10's. Nakamichi and Alpine were our high end head units and we sold a variety of high end amps and speakers. I enjoyed going to the sound competitions at the time and there was some stuff then that was pretty amazing. I bought the first CD player Alpine sold, the 5900, that was an add on CD player under the dash or din mount as an accessory to your cassette deck head unit, LOL. It was 600 clams if I remember right and I believe it had Sony internals but sounded fantastic. The 7909 is still legendary and sought after as one of the best CD head units ever. My switch to Pioneer was based on what others were saying, reviews, etc.. and the dizzying amount of features and ergonomics. The thing is a beast in that regard and I will say this, it does have a whale of a tuner section. It seems like Pioneer always whipped Alpine in that department, but I can live with substandard tuner to hear source music that is transparent and as the artist intended it. All of this digital compressed stuff sounds horrible to my ears, so bad, I find myself running to the basement to slap an LP on my reliable B&O with an MMC1 cartridge to listen to some old Dire Straits or the like in all of its beautiful 2 channel analog glory. Everyone is missing so much in their music these days. You talk about imaging, soundstage, placement of instruments, the clarity and depth of vocals, and the accuracy and force of a kick drum and how the midrange is smooth, welcoming and not painful on your ears with highs that roll off perfectly, with no extra raspness or hiss. Most give you the deer in the headlights look, like WTF you talkin about. Anyway, talk about hijacking a thread! In terms of JL or Hertz I would guess either brand would appeal to someone based on their listening preferences.

02BlownZ06

Racebum,
One other quick question, What do you do with your Alpine for lossless USB playback? It doesn't look like the Alpine supports it?

racebum

as in flac? haven't even tried it. 99% of the music i listen to is cd or usb. there is an hd streaming service you can subscribe to for like 40 bucks a month that streams high bit rate music files. i think alpine is moving that way as some of their decks have it, just apparently not the ones we want. like i said. you sadly give up some features for that sq

when a 320kbs mp3 sounds better on alpine than flac does on pioneer it just is what it is. peter @ mobil west told me something about alpine and flac but i have already forgotten.

i wish there were more deck choices on the market but sadly, i just don't see them. you could get captain insano and buy that mcintosh head unit for a few thousand dollars. i'm sure it sounds amazing. the older eclipse cd7200mk2 was also stellar.

going back to nak and denon head units is back when i was like a grade school kid. i remember even then being able to tell a major sonic difference between pioneer and denon, alpine and nak. i would like to hear a 7909 against a eclipse cd7200mk2 and against modern alpine. i'm not sure if the 7909 is better or if we have fond memories of it in the late 90s when zapco and phoenix gold made the go-to amps and we used those 1st gen JL w6 subs

02BlownZ06

Those were some sweet sweet subs for that time period and I never had the opportunity to demo any denon head units but I know excatly what you are saying regarding the other brands. The Nak TD-1200 II was a beast of a cassette deck, too. I used to record all of my CD's to cassette on a Nak Dragon we had at work and used them for playback in my car system with high end Alpine cassette deck. Ahhhhh......the good old days!! I am almost tempted to find a 7909 and slap it in.