Upgrading my audio and need a little Info please
06-12-2012, 02:20 AM
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Upgrading my audio and need a little Info please
I went to Mobil One today and purchased a new Pioneer 940 Nav/audio
head unit. I was wanting to change out the speakers etc.. but the salesman was short on installers and talked me into just putting the head unit in and run the factory Bose amp and speakers. As soon as I pulled out of the installation bay it sounded like s__t. I have read all of these threads tonight and this is where I am at.
I am going to change the 3.5 tweeters out, the 8" door woofers, and the 5 1/2 rear speakers. I am thinking on disconnecting the front center speaker.
I am thinking on using the Bose amp to drive one set of speakers, then I was going to buy another amp to drive another set of speakers. I would like to stay around $1100.00 including installation.
Here's my question. What would be a good speaker set up? (Brand and Size) I really wood like to stay away of building any boxes. What amp and what power amp? Should I bridge the amp? Should I get a cross over? Should I utilize the Bose amp? If so, which speaks should I run the Bose amp on? I have had many sound systems over the years. I know good sound. I just don't know all the lingo and how to set them up. I listen to Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, Motley Crue "Classic Rock". So I don't want a thumper.
All suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for all suggestions
George
head unit. I was wanting to change out the speakers etc.. but the salesman was short on installers and talked me into just putting the head unit in and run the factory Bose amp and speakers. As soon as I pulled out of the installation bay it sounded like s__t. I have read all of these threads tonight and this is where I am at.
I am going to change the 3.5 tweeters out, the 8" door woofers, and the 5 1/2 rear speakers. I am thinking on disconnecting the front center speaker.
I am thinking on using the Bose amp to drive one set of speakers, then I was going to buy another amp to drive another set of speakers. I would like to stay around $1100.00 including installation.
Here's my question. What would be a good speaker set up? (Brand and Size) I really wood like to stay away of building any boxes. What amp and what power amp? Should I bridge the amp? Should I get a cross over? Should I utilize the Bose amp? If so, which speaks should I run the Bose amp on? I have had many sound systems over the years. I know good sound. I just don't know all the lingo and how to set them up. I listen to Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, Motley Crue "Classic Rock". So I don't want a thumper.
All suggestions are greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance for all suggestions
George
06-12-2012, 07:53 AM
#2
Look, there are a lot of people on this forum who know more than I do. But I just put a stereo in and spent $2,000 upgrading. I don't know a whole lot about stereo but after going through what I went through, I think you can take this stuff to the bank.
This is what I found:
1. You absolutely, no question about it, not up for debate, have to put a sub in if you remove the Bose woofers. Trust me. You think the system sounds bad now, wait until you try and do a stereo without bass.
If all you listen to is Elvis and the Beatles, you MIGHT can get away it. I tried to do a sub-less stereo and it sounded 10 times worse than stock.
2. Now that you know you are going to do a sub, get either a five channel amp or a three channel amp. Each channel is gonna run a speaker.
If you buy a three channel amp, you run the two front door speakers off two of the channels and the sub off the third. You can run the two rears off the HU.
If you buy a five channel amp - what I wish I had done - you hook the front door speakers to two of the channels, the rears to two of the channels and the bass off the fifth channel.
A lot of people run two-amp systems but for most of us, it's not necessary and it takes up space. Pick a good amp and run stuff off that.
Not knowing what I was doing, I bought a four-channel amp. I wasn't going to put any bass in. So when I first installed my stereo, I ran the front door speakers off two of the channels and the rears off the remaining two channels. I had no bass.
System sounded horrible. I reattached the rears to the HU (Bose amp) and left the fronts connected to the new amp. Then I bridged (combined) the two remaining channels on the new amp to power the sub that I bought here on CF.
System sounds unbelievable. But connecting the two rears back to the HU really didn't do anything. You can barely hear those speakers and you don't need them.
A lot of people on here may recommend going with a three channel amp - good quality door speakers and a sub. Just forget about the rears. You can do that and the system will sound terrific. Will also save you money.
But in the short while that I had all four speakers (no sub) hooked up to the four-channel amp, I found liked the "surround sound" effect. The music had no bass, but the four speakers I did have sounded great and had a lot of volume. That's why I wish I had bought a five channel amp. May swap it out later.
The guys on here know a lot and are very helpful. I believe a lot of them are installers. Every single one of them recommended a sub.
And everything they wrote and recommended turned out to be dead-on correct.
As for size, I went with 6.5 components in the door and 5" coaxials in the back. That is pretty standard for after-market set-ups in a Vette. If you don't know these terms, go to a stereo shop and start listening. Don't worry about the brand yet. Get familiar with the terminology.
And don't spend a dime more until you have done a little research.
This is what I found:
1. You absolutely, no question about it, not up for debate, have to put a sub in if you remove the Bose woofers. Trust me. You think the system sounds bad now, wait until you try and do a stereo without bass.
If all you listen to is Elvis and the Beatles, you MIGHT can get away it. I tried to do a sub-less stereo and it sounded 10 times worse than stock.
2. Now that you know you are going to do a sub, get either a five channel amp or a three channel amp. Each channel is gonna run a speaker.
If you buy a three channel amp, you run the two front door speakers off two of the channels and the sub off the third. You can run the two rears off the HU.
If you buy a five channel amp - what I wish I had done - you hook the front door speakers to two of the channels, the rears to two of the channels and the bass off the fifth channel.
A lot of people run two-amp systems but for most of us, it's not necessary and it takes up space. Pick a good amp and run stuff off that.
Not knowing what I was doing, I bought a four-channel amp. I wasn't going to put any bass in. So when I first installed my stereo, I ran the front door speakers off two of the channels and the rears off the remaining two channels. I had no bass.
System sounded horrible. I reattached the rears to the HU (Bose amp) and left the fronts connected to the new amp. Then I bridged (combined) the two remaining channels on the new amp to power the sub that I bought here on CF.
System sounds unbelievable. But connecting the two rears back to the HU really didn't do anything. You can barely hear those speakers and you don't need them.
A lot of people on here may recommend going with a three channel amp - good quality door speakers and a sub. Just forget about the rears. You can do that and the system will sound terrific. Will also save you money.
But in the short while that I had all four speakers (no sub) hooked up to the four-channel amp, I found liked the "surround sound" effect. The music had no bass, but the four speakers I did have sounded great and had a lot of volume. That's why I wish I had bought a five channel amp. May swap it out later.
The guys on here know a lot and are very helpful. I believe a lot of them are installers. Every single one of them recommended a sub.
And everything they wrote and recommended turned out to be dead-on correct.
As for size, I went with 6.5 components in the door and 5" coaxials in the back. That is pretty standard for after-market set-ups in a Vette. If you don't know these terms, go to a stereo shop and start listening. Don't worry about the brand yet. Get familiar with the terminology.
And don't spend a dime more until you have done a little research.
06-12-2012, 11:33 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
It should have sounded at least as good as it did when you rolled in there... did it sound the same, or worse? If it was worse, then it sounds to me as though the install shop didn't use the proper wiring harness to hook up your system. Do you happen to know what interface they installed for your system? (Brand and part number?) Did they just run the 4-channels to the Bose amp? Did they turn on any active filters (crossovers) in the head unit? Does the HU have any EQ functions?
What Corvette do you have? Based on the speaker sizes you mentioned, I'd think it was a C5, but then you mentioned a center channel so I'm thinking it's a C6.
If you have a C6 and a center channel, then you probably have the Y07 & U65 RPO codes in your glove box, meaning that you have the 7-speaker premium sound system. (Assuming it's a Coupe and not a Vert?) The C6 schematics are in the FAQ at the top of this section, and the thing that you'll see is that the Bose amp has four low-level inputs. (Front: L&R, Rear: L&R.) So connecting up an aftermarket head unit should be easy enough... but the factory HU already has a flat response so the "upgrade" is really more about features vs. sound quality at that point.
From there, the Bose amp 'creates' a pseudo 4.2 system: Left - Center - Right - Rear. (The amp creates a mono signal to the two rear speakers.) The "2" in the 4.2 are the two 10" bass drivers in the lower doors, and the main Bose amp sends a signal to each door pod, which has it's own amplifier. I'm not certain, but I have read that the Bose amp has a crossover between 200 ~ 300 Hz between the bass drivers and the 3.5" drivers.
If you plan on keeping the Bose amp (located in the passenger floorboard, next to the fuse panel) then you can simply upgrade the 3.5" drivers in the doors and the 5.25" drivers in the rear... but as I said above, the rears are a mono signal... you won't get any stereo and they just act as rear fill. I think it would be a waste to upgrade them unless you were also adding an amplifier and running new speaker wires at the same time... but then again, I'm not a fan of rear fill unless you have an active processor sending the right signals to the speakers.
As Tampatopless said, you're going to want to get a subwoofer if you pull and replace the 10" bass drivers. There are vendors that sell pre-made sub boxes if you're looking to go that route, which fit into the left or right cubby holes in the back... which makes a 'drop in' solution for additional bass, and you have the option to easily remove them if you wanted to.
If you decide to pull the Bose amp, you can install two small Arc Audio amps in that location (KS125.4 and a KS500.1) to use for the mains and the sub. You can also install the amps in the rear hatch/trunk area, but you're looking at giving up some trunk space that way... so whatever works for you is the best way to go, obviously. You're probably looking at $300 ~ $500 on the lower end, and closer to $600 ~ $800 for better, more quality amps. Again, it just depends on what you want to do.
A decent set of components for up front can make a world of difference. Expect to pay about $150 ~ $300 depending on what brands you like and how much you want to throw at it. If money was no object, you could spend a LOT more... but it's debatable on whether or not you'd be able to tell the difference when rolling down the freeway at 70 MPH.
If I were to spend a lot of money on a set of components, I wouldn't take another step without first installing a bunch of sound deadening. You'd be surprised at just how much impact this has over the sound in ANY vehicle, even with stock speakers.
If I were you, I'd contact Dennis (C5 Bears Fan) here and discuss your options... he's a forum vendor and has a great reputation, and can probably get you the stuff you need for a hell of a lot cheaper than your local Brick-and-Mortar store.
Use the search function and you'll find a LOT of information and will give you some ideas about what you may want to do.
Let me know if this helps, or if you need additional information.
Mark
What Corvette do you have? Based on the speaker sizes you mentioned, I'd think it was a C5, but then you mentioned a center channel so I'm thinking it's a C6.
If you have a C6 and a center channel, then you probably have the Y07 & U65 RPO codes in your glove box, meaning that you have the 7-speaker premium sound system. (Assuming it's a Coupe and not a Vert?) The C6 schematics are in the FAQ at the top of this section, and the thing that you'll see is that the Bose amp has four low-level inputs. (Front: L&R, Rear: L&R.) So connecting up an aftermarket head unit should be easy enough... but the factory HU already has a flat response so the "upgrade" is really more about features vs. sound quality at that point.
From there, the Bose amp 'creates' a pseudo 4.2 system: Left - Center - Right - Rear. (The amp creates a mono signal to the two rear speakers.) The "2" in the 4.2 are the two 10" bass drivers in the lower doors, and the main Bose amp sends a signal to each door pod, which has it's own amplifier. I'm not certain, but I have read that the Bose amp has a crossover between 200 ~ 300 Hz between the bass drivers and the 3.5" drivers.
If you plan on keeping the Bose amp (located in the passenger floorboard, next to the fuse panel) then you can simply upgrade the 3.5" drivers in the doors and the 5.25" drivers in the rear... but as I said above, the rears are a mono signal... you won't get any stereo and they just act as rear fill. I think it would be a waste to upgrade them unless you were also adding an amplifier and running new speaker wires at the same time... but then again, I'm not a fan of rear fill unless you have an active processor sending the right signals to the speakers.
As Tampatopless said, you're going to want to get a subwoofer if you pull and replace the 10" bass drivers. There are vendors that sell pre-made sub boxes if you're looking to go that route, which fit into the left or right cubby holes in the back... which makes a 'drop in' solution for additional bass, and you have the option to easily remove them if you wanted to.
If you decide to pull the Bose amp, you can install two small Arc Audio amps in that location (KS125.4 and a KS500.1) to use for the mains and the sub. You can also install the amps in the rear hatch/trunk area, but you're looking at giving up some trunk space that way... so whatever works for you is the best way to go, obviously. You're probably looking at $300 ~ $500 on the lower end, and closer to $600 ~ $800 for better, more quality amps. Again, it just depends on what you want to do.
A decent set of components for up front can make a world of difference. Expect to pay about $150 ~ $300 depending on what brands you like and how much you want to throw at it. If money was no object, you could spend a LOT more... but it's debatable on whether or not you'd be able to tell the difference when rolling down the freeway at 70 MPH.
If I were to spend a lot of money on a set of components, I wouldn't take another step without first installing a bunch of sound deadening. You'd be surprised at just how much impact this has over the sound in ANY vehicle, even with stock speakers.
If I were you, I'd contact Dennis (C5 Bears Fan) here and discuss your options... he's a forum vendor and has a great reputation, and can probably get you the stuff you need for a hell of a lot cheaper than your local Brick-and-Mortar store.
Use the search function and you'll find a LOT of information and will give you some ideas about what you may want to do.
Let me know if this helps, or if you need additional information.
Mark
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Paranoid (12-31-2020)
06-12-2012, 01:44 PM
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Good information from tampatopless and Fasthotrod. I will add my $.02 and offer you some help as you are local to me. I have a small system in my 2008 Z with the Arc Audio mini amps (KS125.4 and KS500.1), Image Dynamics XS65 6.5" components, and an Image Dynamics IDQ V3 10" sub. I'm using the factory head unit and have disconnected the center speaker and the rear speakers. I also have a boatload of sound deadening in my doors and throughout the car. You can see the install thread I put together here - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/audi...6-install.html .
I would recommend ditching the Bose amp and Bose speakers, and then getting the following: quality amp(s), quality 6.5" component speaker set for doors and a quality 10" sub. Arc Audio is popular here because of their size and sound quality. You could run the KS mini series or their XD digital series. If using KS mini series, think you'll need 2 amps - KS125.4 and KS500.1. If XD series, would run 2 amps too, but could possibly get by with the 5 channel. You could also step up to the Arc Audio KS900.6, which is a 6 channel amp in the KS lineup that could do anything and everything you ever wanted (I actually have one of these in storage if you decide you want to go this route). For speakers and subs I would consider Arc Audio as well. Really though comes down to personal preference and what sounds good to you and how much you want to spend.
If you are serious about wanting to upgrade I will let you come and listen to my car. I can tune the bass from the sub out so you can hear what the 6.5" sound like without a sub, then can turn back on so you can hear/feel the difference. Bring your favorite CDs or ipod so you can audition with the music you listen to. I'm near downtown Houston, contact me if interested.
I would recommend ditching the Bose amp and Bose speakers, and then getting the following: quality amp(s), quality 6.5" component speaker set for doors and a quality 10" sub. Arc Audio is popular here because of their size and sound quality. You could run the KS mini series or their XD digital series. If using KS mini series, think you'll need 2 amps - KS125.4 and KS500.1. If XD series, would run 2 amps too, but could possibly get by with the 5 channel. You could also step up to the Arc Audio KS900.6, which is a 6 channel amp in the KS lineup that could do anything and everything you ever wanted (I actually have one of these in storage if you decide you want to go this route). For speakers and subs I would consider Arc Audio as well. Really though comes down to personal preference and what sounds good to you and how much you want to spend.
If you are serious about wanting to upgrade I will let you come and listen to my car. I can tune the bass from the sub out so you can hear what the 6.5" sound like without a sub, then can turn back on so you can hear/feel the difference. Bring your favorite CDs or ipod so you can audition with the music you listen to. I'm near downtown Houston, contact me if interested.
06-12-2012, 02:00 PM
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Tampatopless and FasthotRod : Thanks a Texas Million for taking the time to reply to my post. I have forwarded ya"lls replys to my installer. He is the Install Manager at Mobil One. He has been doing this for many years. I am hoping that after he see's ya"lls replys, it will help him get my system right. I have never used him before but he seems like a real nice guy and he is willing to help me out. This all got started off in the wrong direction when after I paid for the new head unit, wiring harness etc.. The sales manager guy then told me his installer just called in sick and the other one was taking his wife to the hospital. So my installer had to drive from the Woodlands to the Champions area in Houston to install my system. That's about a 30 minute drive. So, it all started out wrong. I have had 3 or 4 other systems installed at this location in the past and they got it right the first time. All I wanted in the the beginning was to be able to run my Iphone/Ipod off the existing Bose unit. I bought one of the PAL wiring harness after the PAL salesmen convinced me I could install it myself. I hooked it up exactly the way I was suppose to and I could only get sound out of one speaker. I took the PAL harness back off, and hooked everything back up and that was a year ago. I still have the PAL wiring harness. Never sent it back. Got busy and forgot about it. So I said this time to hell with it. I bought a new NAV APP Pioneer head unit to the tune of $900.00 bucks and that is where I sit. I was 0riginaly satisfied with the Bose system.I really didn't want to upgrade the system due to the fact I was thinking about buying a new C7 in the next couple of years. So, ya"ll know the "True E Hollywood Story" now.
Rock On
George
Rock On
George
06-12-2012, 06:16 PM
#6
I wish'd to god I had never touched my system. I just had a busted speaker in a C6 Vert and convinced myself a new sound system would better.
I still have the stock HU with the PAL device for my iPod, which I've always had.
But I have new 6.5 components in the doors, new coaxes in the rear and a 10" sub in the trunk. Plus, a JL mini-amp.
It sounds great but I drive a convertible with the top down 90 percent of the time. I mean most of that sound is floating in the wind.
With the top up, it sounds like a freakin' concert hall, though.
I actually had the exact same problem you had with my C5. I swapped out head units for an iPod connect and the system sounded terrible. I eventually ended up going with amp and speakers as well.
Maybe it was in the harness and the hookup, I don't know.
On two Vettes, I have spent more on stereo equipment than I have on wheels or exhaust COMBINED - and that's sad and probably stupid.
I still have the stock HU with the PAL device for my iPod, which I've always had.
But I have new 6.5 components in the doors, new coaxes in the rear and a 10" sub in the trunk. Plus, a JL mini-amp.
It sounds great but I drive a convertible with the top down 90 percent of the time. I mean most of that sound is floating in the wind.
With the top up, it sounds like a freakin' concert hall, though.
I actually had the exact same problem you had with my C5. I swapped out head units for an iPod connect and the system sounded terrible. I eventually ended up going with amp and speakers as well.
Maybe it was in the harness and the hookup, I don't know.
On two Vettes, I have spent more on stereo equipment than I have on wheels or exhaust COMBINED - and that's sad and probably stupid.
Last edited by tampatopless; 06-12-2012 at 06:18 PM.
06-14-2012, 09:20 PM
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Update
I found a gentlemen on my side of town that caters to high end sports cars and he has done allot of C6 Vettes. Basically, he is going to put 6x9 components in the front, replace the existing tweets and do a 8" woofer for the cubby hole in the rear. He is going to run all that by one 4 channel amp. He uses Image Dynamics speakers and Arc Audio amps. I looked them up on the web and it appears to me that this is high end equipment
that installers and Car Audio shops use. They give good warranties on their equipment as well. Have any of ya"ll ever heard of either one of them?
Everybody have a great weekend
George
that installers and Car Audio shops use. They give good warranties on their equipment as well. Have any of ya"ll ever heard of either one of them?
Everybody have a great weekend
George
06-14-2012, 10:50 PM
#8
To the experts, do you need an 8" woofer in the cubby if you got 6x9 in the doors? Doesn't that give you the bass response?
And to the OP, ask him if he plans to do the 6x9 "within" the door or if there will be a grill that protrudes. There is only 2.5" of mounting depth in that door.
And to the OP, ask him if he plans to do the 6x9 "within" the door or if there will be a grill that protrudes. There is only 2.5" of mounting depth in that door.
06-15-2012, 01:09 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
To the experts, do you need an 8" woofer in the cubby if you got 6x9 in the doors? Doesn't that give you the bass response?
And to the OP, ask him if he plans to do the 6x9 "within" the door or if there will be a grill that protrudes. There is only 2.5" of mounting depth in that door.
And to the OP, ask him if he plans to do the 6x9 "within" the door or if there will be a grill that protrudes. There is only 2.5" of mounting depth in that door.
I read somewhere that the C6 has the following door clearance:
2 7/8" to Sled
3 1/8 to Rail
3 3/4" to Glass
These were zero clearance measurements, and I think that some additional clearance is available when using a baffle... but I can't say for sure.
Good luck with the upgrades.
06-15-2012, 06:30 PM
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Sound deading
Hey Guys,
What would you think a reasonable cost would be to do a half *** sound deading job? I am talking about the doors and the rear storage area. Reason why I say half ***, I read a thread from one of the other forum members and he took everything out of his car, I mean everything.
And he took a pick of each bolt, nut and wire he took out. It was kinda funny too. He would have about 15 pictures of different items he had taken out or put back in then there was a picture of a Heineken. I wish I was blessed to be able to do things like that.
Anyone have any big plans for the weekend? i am going to a Car Rally tomorrow morning then go shoot a few rounds of skeet then catch a live rock band tomorrow night. Ya"ll have a great weekend George
What would you think a reasonable cost would be to do a half *** sound deading job? I am talking about the doors and the rear storage area. Reason why I say half ***, I read a thread from one of the other forum members and he took everything out of his car, I mean everything.
And he took a pick of each bolt, nut and wire he took out. It was kinda funny too. He would have about 15 pictures of different items he had taken out or put back in then there was a picture of a Heineken. I wish I was blessed to be able to do things like that.
Anyone have any big plans for the weekend? i am going to a Car Rally tomorrow morning then go shoot a few rounds of skeet then catch a live rock band tomorrow night. Ya"ll have a great weekend George
06-15-2012, 07:28 PM
#11
Don't know about the cost. I made my installer do it for free 'cause the install was a fairly large job.
I mean, the door panels are already gonna be off and he is going to have to fashion some sort of mounting board to hold the 6x9s, so it's just a matter of putting that stuff on.
What, say $40 of material for the doors only?
If you want, you can measure your doors, figure out the size and then go online and price it.
I wouldn't mess with sound deadening the trunk.
And in my humble opinion, I wouldn't mess with those 6x9s if you are gonna have a 10" woofer in the back. If that woofer has enough power behind it, that will be more bass than you will ever need. Go with some good quality 6.5 components in the doors.
I mean, the door panels are already gonna be off and he is going to have to fashion some sort of mounting board to hold the 6x9s, so it's just a matter of putting that stuff on.
What, say $40 of material for the doors only?
If you want, you can measure your doors, figure out the size and then go online and price it.
I wouldn't mess with sound deadening the trunk.
And in my humble opinion, I wouldn't mess with those 6x9s if you are gonna have a 10" woofer in the back. If that woofer has enough power behind it, that will be more bass than you will ever need. Go with some good quality 6.5 components in the doors.
Last edited by tampatopless; 06-15-2012 at 07:32 PM.
06-15-2012, 07:30 PM
#12
I haven't listened to a set of 6x9's in the doors, but I've heard of it being done. I'd think you'd still want a sub in the back... but I'd be more inclined to run a 10" vs. an 8" back there, all things considered.
I read somewhere that the C6 has the following door clearance:
2 7/8" to Sled
3 1/8 to Rail
3 3/4" to Glass
These were zero clearance measurements, and I think that some additional clearance is available when using a baffle... but I can't say for sure.
Good luck with the upgrades.
I read somewhere that the C6 has the following door clearance:
2 7/8" to Sled
3 1/8 to Rail
3 3/4" to Glass
These were zero clearance measurements, and I think that some additional clearance is available when using a baffle... but I can't say for sure.
Good luck with the upgrades.
08-24-2012, 01:54 PM
#13
8th Gear
Thanks for the great information!! I am going to be installing an amp & sub in my '08 C6 soon and am trying to compile as much info as possible. I am also swapping my stock radio head for a stock Nav. head out of an '06. Hope there won't be any hidden issues I will have to deal with! Anyone with any suggestions plz. chime in! Thanks!