racebum

there are only a few people in the country who deal with the ultra high end

another speaker to consider is the dynaudio esotar2 https://www.dynaudio.com/car-audio/aftermarket/esotar

the esotar drivers basically measure perfect from a technical perspective but it's much more. they create a pleasing sound. they aren't just paper tigers

one place that does have some of these 20-30k dollar installs is mobile west in portland oregon. the owner, peter has a 40k install with morel supremos and special versions of the audison thesis amps in a mercedes that has been acoustically deadened

if you want to hear some of these cars you will have to travel but that's fairly inexpensive when you consider that #1 you want to hear what you're buying and #2 a ticket to pdx is cheap from most cities

mobile west also has a car with the morel elates and the hybrids.

only thing they don't have are the dynaudio esotars which have been winners in more than one SQ car

i've never heard a butler amp but if you like the tube sound in general focal is out the window. it's dynaudio or morel. the only focal you might listen to is the utopia but i get the feeling you like a softer mellow sound.

dynaudio won best bookshelf at the rocky mountain hi fi show this year and that speaker is based on the esotar drivers

JL also won best subwoofer and that sub was based on the w7.

if i personally had to pick a deck for car SQ it would be the sony gs9. mac also has one the mcd550 but it's 6500 retail. probably the best sq deck in the world. the sony just seems more realistic to me at 1500 and i've heard it, sounds amazing. excellent depth and transparency. the older eclipse cd7200mk2 was also excellent but going on 10yrs old. not sure if it's really as good as i remember. still see it in some SQ show cars though

speakers... esotar or elate most likely. the supremo just isn't that much better than the elate and i have a critical ear. esotar i would want to spend more time with. many say they are the best speaker available at any price. then again i'm somewhat budget conscious so if that does not matter the supremo may be the one to consider against the esotar

amps. audison thesis, they are class A, hand made. but if you like the tube sound i can understand going that way you just won't have the volume. i think if you had a chance to demo a thesis it would floor you. just an amazingly deep. accurate non offensive sound. reminded me more of krell or mark levinson than a car amp

subs, w6v3 in a qtc .707. the w7 can also be stellar but the boxes get really big if you do SQ alignments. the 13w7 models in something like 3.5 cuft. the 12w6v3 on the other hand hits 707 at 1.44 net, the only other one i would consider is the esotar2 12"

bogus

Thanks for the info. I am not into a $40k install! Not quite my price point. I want good, but I can get 90% of what I want for $3k.

Back in the day, I had a chance to listen to Earl Zausmer's BMW 540i... OMG... that thing was intense. B&W drivers, all in the front. 13" woofer, installed in the kick panels! 4" and 1" mids/tweets on little elevators that raised out of the dash. 400 lbs of dynomat... All driven by a 30 watt tube amp.

The Butler pushes 150 watts per channel. As I said, I have had them before, and they do put out the power.

racebum

is it a hybrid? it's almost unheard of to see a the rack of tubes needed to create 150w even in home audio. if you like the amps that takes care if that. you would need 7 channels do go active 3 way or as little as 3 if you go passive. it will be very easy to rock past 3k if you buy nice things. 3k is about where i'm at and it's very mid level. i also got really good deals on all my gear. no dsp, only 4 channels for the highs.

1. alpine 960hdmi $550
2. JL 300/4v3 $375
3. JL 600/1v3 $425
4. JL 12w6v3 $425
5. morel hybrid 602 components $500
6. morel tempo ultra 6.5 coax $200
7 40sqft of dynamat $160
8. wiring $100

if you use a high end deck like the sony gs9, higher end front stage like an elate or esotar that's 3500 right there. dsp makes it 4k. another 800-1000 for the sub and sub amp, 5k , then you still have to purchase said number of butler amps for the front. a 2ch at a minimum if you go passive on the highs.

http://www.butleraudio.com/car.php

the tbd475 is $800 which would allow you proper time correction on a 3way as the woofer could be one channel and the mid/tweet the other or you could go all passive for $650 with the 2x150 i suppose but you will be fiddling with crossover values, making your zobels etc. if you go elate the stock passive crossovers should run pretty well with just a simple zobel on the woofer and possibly mid

even if you dropped the gs9 and got a mid level deck like i have this adventure is going to be more like 5k , 3 barely gets you the speakers unless you can buy everything at cost

bogus

I already have the head unit... I got the Kenwood eXelon 9903S. It has the features and so far, attached to the GM junk, sounds better than the OEM head.

As for the rest... it's a play by ear, so to speak. I am going to stick with passive crossovers, simply because I don't have the desire to mess with all the amps required to do active xovers.

This isn't my first rodeo, so it's a case of picking what fits my wallet and my car!

racebum

the wallet friendly deal right now is the dynaudio esotec 242 set on ebay for 495 shipped. used but look mint, good ad. 1k speaker set.

if you take advantage of deals and are thrifty you may well do your system for 3k

02BlownZ06

Isn't the MCD550 a home audio disc player?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_958MCD...c&awug=9024288

-=Jeff=-

Speaking of Sony.. they released the XAV-AX200, Adds SXM and a DVD player

Also a guy on XDA found a way to access the Firmware of the XAV-AX100 and is going to try making some changes (Like the warning screen prompt)

racebum

you're right. it came up as superseding their last deck but it isn't. on the mac home page they are out of aftermarket car audio all together

so the sony gs9 is now the real aftermarket SQ flagship from a modern perspective

-=Jeff=-

Alright..

Thinking about removing my door speakers in my 90 and just running speakers in the OEM Spots.. and going to a 2-way system.. I have CDT Tweeters, 4" and 6.5" This OEM spots might take a 5.25"

Or I might just leave the setup alone.. either way thoughts on speakers?

Georgies

i have the kenwood DNX893s that i got from DD mods.

It works..thats about it. Cant see where you are while playing tracks, cant increase volume quickly...

If those things are important to you, dont get the one I have, maybe stay away from Kenwood all together. i'm sure someone will have more details...

Vet Interested

"Cant increase volume quickly." You do not have volume controls on your steering wheel?

Georgies

No i dont. Its in a c5z. I thought that maybe after getting the latest updates, most of my issues would go away. None are fixed. The lamest thing is that there is no time during track playback. So you can never know where you are in a long track. Its a nice looking unit, thats about it..

racebum

volume issue is probably the single most annoying part about kenwood.

not sure if the 9904s still has this problem or not

-=Jeff=-

Test fit of the radio and modded bezel

02BlownZ06

That will look good when it's finished!

-=Jeff=-

radio is in and wired.. I have everything set flat but i had to drive the level of the front speakers way down so i could actually hear the rear speakers (Subwoofers) I have to play with the gains on the amps to get them adjusted. I have also by passed the MiniDSP

I will say with everything flat and nothing adjusted it sound incredible compared to the Android unit

not sure why the front sounded so loud compared to the sub out though

02BlownZ06

Glad to hear it sounds good at first listen! You will definitely need to tweak your gains to get the sound levels matched. I used to use a Sound level meter and adjust the fronts, rears, and subs individually with pink noise to get the DB levels matched. Is this in a C4 or a C5? I can give you my time alignment numbers that Racebum helped me with but they obviously are for my setup so may not be perfect for yours.

-=Jeff=-

C4.. According to the manual, you measure all the speaker locations ans use the shortest distance as your '0' and enter the differences for all the rest based on the the one shorts distances being the new '0'

Example if FL is 24" FR is 40", SubL is 28" ad SubR is 45" this is how the following would be based on for the unit

FL 0
FR 16
SubL 4
SubR 21

OF course use the Manuals conversion get the right values to enter

02BlownZ06

Yeah, I didn't care for how Alpine's time alignment is setup. I used my old Pioneer with a microphone to measure my interior and pulled the numbers from it and converted to use to set my Alpine.

02BlownZ06

I gave Racebum my Pioneer analysis numbers and he came up with this:

two sets of numbers. first FL 30.48cm FR 0 RL 22.86cm RR 2.54cm sub 0

that might work but the numbers i bet you will like are FL 104.1cm FR 73.66cm RL 96.52cm RR 76.2cm sub 0

what i did to come up with that second set of numbers is put your sub in front. alpine won't allow 126" on the sub as the delay elsewhere will be too great for the system so i went with 80" which should work. you take 80" as the greatest number for your sub putting it in front of the music. 80" becomes your baseline zero, 80 minus the numbers you gave me converted to centimeters are FL 104.1cm FR 73.66cm RL 96.52cm RR 76.2cm sub 0

enter both sets of numbers, see what sounds best. in my current car the difference is fairly minor. little more bottom end putting the sub in front sonically with a greater delay on the mids / tweets