Autocrossing & Roadracing Suspension Setup for Track Corvettes, Camber/Caster Adjustments, R-Compound Tires, Race Slicks, Tips on Driving Technique, Events, Results
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

When speed and wealth collide!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-16-2006, 10:23 AM
  #1  
John Shiels
Team Owner
Thread Starter
 
John Shiels's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 1999
Location: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
Posts: 50,808
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts

Default When speed and wealth collide!

Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Print this Comment on this E-mail this
John McCormick

When speed and wealth collide

Money does not buy taste, nor does it buy driving ability. The latter has become increasingly evident with the growing number of exotic car accidents.

Some of these high profile crashes are humorous examples of what happens when a person with plenty of money, but inadequate driving skills, gets behind the wheel of an ultra-powerful car. Instances of such well-heeled idiocy can be seen on the web, at sites such as wreckedexotics.com.

Now and again the outcome of these wrecks is not so funny, when the lives of the driver, or others, are lost. But whether or not there is a fatality involved, the question raised by these incidents centers on a need for driver training.

Any car driven badly can be a problem, but the chances of disaster seem to multiply as horsepower increases. And compared to only a few years ago when 300 or 400hp seemed like a lot of power, the number of cars today with engine output over 500hp is up sharply and destined to keep growing. These are cars with extreme rates of acceleration, top speeds often in excess of 200mph and sometimes very demanding handling qualities.

Two recent incidents have thrown this whole issue into sharp relief. Firstly there was the affair of a Ferrari Enzo (a particularly rare supercar), which was crashed at very high speed on a public road in California. Fortunately neither the driver, nor anyone else, was injured in the accident. The story caused a stir because of the strange behavior of the driver, a Swedish electronic games entrepreneur, who has subsequently been arrested by the police for fraud.

While the Enzo crash did not cost any lives, sadly the same was not true of a crash involving a Porsche Carrera GT, another extraordinary exotic with similar performance to the Ferrari. The Carrera accident occurred on a race circuit during a track day for owners of such cars. Both the owner who was driving and the passenger, whom he had invited for a ride, were killed when the Porsche slid out of control and hit a barrier.

Both accident victims were in their 30s and very wealthy. Subsequently, the wife of the passenger launched multiple law suits against the driver, the race track, the track day organizers and, significantly, Porsche for selling an "unsafe car."

More details of the case are explained in an interesting legal column in the June issue of Sports Car Market magazine. But one of the claims made against Porsche is that the Carrera GT is "too difficult a car to handle at high speeds for the average driver without instruction."

In other words, Porsche should not have sold the car to anyone without ensuring that the buyer was given adequate driver training.

Obviously the same observation could be made about a number of supercars on the market today. Two Detroit-grown examples that come to mind are the Ford GT and the widely rumored Corvette SuperSport, an extra powerful version of the current Corvette that is expected to launch in the next year or so.

None of this is exactly news to automakers; Porsche has been offering a driving school for its buyers for some years. Other manufacturers, including BMW, Audi and Mercedes do the same. But so far there has been no legal requirement that a buyer must complete special training before driving off in his or her 200mph exotic.

As an enthusiast driver with a keen interest in fast cars, the idea of more legislation in this area is an anathema. On the other hand when innocent lives are put at risk by the stupidly or ignorance of people who happen to have a great deal of disposable income, then there is a good argument for change.

John McCormick is a columnist for Autos Insider and can be reached at john.mccormick@detnews.com


Chevrolet and GM will be next. Wonder how selling sub 10 second 1/4 mile bikes fairs in court?

Last edited by John Shiels; 05-16-2006 at 10:27 AM.
Old 05-16-2006, 10:39 AM
  #2  
StArrow68
Melting Slicks
 
StArrow68's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2001
Location: Alamo CA
Posts: 2,371
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Thanks for the article and his ability to accept the current C6 Z06 as not worth mention as one needing training is telling about what we now think is 'normal'.
Old 05-16-2006, 10:46 AM
  #3  
freefall
Burning Brakes
 
freefall's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2003
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Where the hell did personal responsibility go? If someone buys a powerful car, the factory should not be required to train them - because in legal on-street situations, it will not be required. However, if the buyer decides to take it onto the track or do something illegal on the street, it is THEIR responsibility to make sure they can handle the situation. I'm not even going to comment on the porsche passenger's widow's suing spree.
Old 05-16-2006, 10:52 AM
  #4  
racerwannabe
Pro
 
racerwannabe's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: boiling springs sc
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '06

Default

Originally Posted by freefall
Where the hell did personal responsibility go? If someone buys a powerful car, the factory should not be required to train them - because in legal on-street situations, it will not be required. However, if the buyer decides to take it onto the track or do something illegal on the street, it is THEIR responsibility to make sure they can handle the situation. I'm not even going to comment on the porsche passenger's widow's suing spree.
we will all be better off when folks are held responsible for their own actions...
i couldn't agree more...driven wrong ,you can kill yourself in a geo metro..
johnny
Old 05-16-2006, 10:53 AM
  #5  
davidfarmer
Race Director
Support Corvetteforum!
 
davidfarmer's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 1999
Location: CONCORD NC
Posts: 11,996
Received 709 Likes on 490 Posts

Default

One weekend at a PCA race (not DE) and you'll see exactly how much talent money can buy. I raced a friends car last year, and we had our first THREE sessions black/red flagged due to wrecks within the first 2 laps. One session (practice 2) had 3 separate crashes (actually hit the wall, or slid beyond recovery) on the WARM UP LAPS!

Too bad current cars are so safe, or I would call it natural selection. Back in the good ol' days, you drove that poorly, you didn't live to lie about it!
Old 05-16-2006, 11:04 AM
  #6  
yellow01
Le Mans Master
 
yellow01's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: Murphy TX
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Subsequently, the wife of the passenger launched multiple law suits against the driver, the race track, the track day organizers and, significantly, Porsche for selling an "unsafe car."
Keep an eye on people like this. They will be the reason 10 years from now when legislation prohibits the manufacture or sale of anything over 200 hp...

I am sorry for her, and the people who died, but anyone who drives > 150mph on a race track is voluntarily putting him/herself in a dangerous situation. We all pray that this doesn't happen, but it's dangerous, period.

Where the hell did personal responsibility go? If someone buys a powerful car, the factory should not be required to train them - because in legal on-street situations, it will not be required. However, if the buyer decides to take it onto the track or do something illegal on the street, it is THEIR responsibility to make sure they can handle the situation.
That's the root of the issue but these days our govt is more than happy to try and protect everyone from themselves. Every time I hear a story like this I wince, because I can envision the end of our sport...(at least DE type stuff). Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic.
Old 05-16-2006, 11:11 AM
  #7  
Wicked Weasel
Team Owner
 
Wicked Weasel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 24,652
Received 297 Likes on 94 Posts
St. Jude Donor '05-'08

Default

Originally Posted by freefall
Where the hell did personal responsibility go?



this goes along with someone drinking too much and then blaming the bar for the accident or buying a gun, "accidentally" shooting a friend and blaming the gun industry for not providing training.

So does the auto industry have to provide a rode test to each buyer before the buyer can drive off with the car? what happens when the buyer buys a used car - am I responsible now for the safety of that person because he/she can't drive.

Old 05-16-2006, 11:14 AM
  #8  
Slalom4me
Le Mans Master
 
Slalom4me's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Edmonton AB
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 13 Posts

Default

Nice how John McCormick conveniently omits several pertinent details
about the Carrera GT crash in order to use it as an example for a
juicy story that he no doubt hopes will be picked up by the news
services for distribution to the masses and lead to his personal gain.
  • No mention of the car that entered the track as the Carrera was
    approaching or the alleged circumstances under how the car proceeded.
  • No mention that the driver had previously owned other very capable
    cars
Originally Posted by ZAMIRZ
Well, I'm devastated to say the least. Ben was as super cool guy
and took me for a ride in the C-GT when he got it, he had a passion for
fast cars, I remember him talking to me about the virtues of the C-GT
over his Ferrari 360CS.
Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport
Ben was a long time customer & friend as I helped him make his
first 996 Cab a bit more fun to drive. He was a gentleman and a class
act in every way and a real pleasure to talk to.
The quotes above are from the Pelican Parts BBS. I believe that relevant
information also appears on RennSport's BBS.

Watch out for the media. There was this similar sort of innuendo broadcast
following the death of Paul Dana at Homestead.

.
Old 05-16-2006, 11:29 AM
  #9  
sd7ss
Racer
 
sd7ss's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Escondido CA
Posts: 387
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by John Shiels
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Print this Comment on this E-mail this
John McCormick

When speed and wealth collide

Money does not buy taste, nor does it buy driving ability.
Some of these high profile crashes are humorous examples of what happens when a person with plenty of money, but inadequate driving skills, gets behind the wheel of an ultra-powerful car.
Two recent incidents have thrown this whole issue into sharp relief. Firstly there was the affair of a Ferrari Enzo (a particularly rare supercar), which was crashed at very high speed on a public road in California.
John McCormick is a columnist for Autos Insider and can be reached at john.mccormick@detnews.com
I have to take exception to McCormick's analysis of the Enzo crash. I suspect Erickson was fairly competent and comfortable at the kind of speed he was going when he crashed. He competed at Lemans in a Ferrari just last year. This in no way justifies his behavior. I think it was his judgement that was faulty, more so than his ability. He was clearly overdriving the car for the conditions. How are you going to teach the obvious - that you don't try to drive 160+ at night on a public street with your lights off while inebriated? (At least he didn't have sunglasses on - maybe) At least in this case, I think it wasn't a lack of driving ability that caused the problem; it was clouded judgement, and a total lack of responsibility.
Old 05-16-2006, 12:25 PM
  #10  
PA Z06
Safety Car
 
PA Z06's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Philly Burbs PA
Posts: 3,605
Received 11 Likes on 8 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by freefall
Where the hell did personal responsibility go? If someone buys a powerful car, the factory should not be required to train them - because in legal on-street situations, it will not be required. However, if the buyer decides to take it onto the track or do something illegal on the street, it is THEIR responsibility to make sure they can handle the situation. I'm not even going to comment on the porsche passenger's widow's suing spree.
Old 05-16-2006, 12:30 PM
  #11  
ReddyZ06
Pro
 
ReddyZ06's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Arizona by way of Ohio,USA
Posts: 686
Received 45 Likes on 30 Posts

Default

Pretty inaccurate reporting, but then it probably sells well to drivers who never plan to purchase more than 150hp commuter transportation.
Also rather disrespectful of the actual people hurt in one of those accidents. Again, maybe its is good for circulation statistics for "auto insider".
Mike
Old 05-16-2006, 12:35 PM
  #12  
Lancer033
Le Mans Master
 
Lancer033's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2002
Location: Norfolk VA
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by davidfarmer
Too bad current cars are so safe, or I would call it natural selection. Back in the good ol' days, you drove that poorly, you didn't live to lie about it!


lesson 1, drive with your brain, not your *****.


-----------

He's got a point about driver training, but is supporting facts are crap. Skilled driver or not, the Enzo shouldn't be going that fast on a public road and I would say that it's more than a little unfair for the writer to compair the Carrera GT wreck to the moron in the Enzo. He says that people should be trained, and then uses a training accident as an example of why people need training . Nice 1st draft, but do a little more research and try again
Old 05-16-2006, 12:47 PM
  #13  
turtlevette
Melting Slicks
 
turtlevette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
St. Jude Donor '03,'11

Default

Originally Posted by yellow01
I am sorry for her, and the people who died, but anyone who drives > 150mph on a race track is voluntarily putting him/herself in a dangerous situation. .

I'm not anymore. F-them.

Car enthusiast should take up a collection to fight these bastards any way we can. A gearhead's defense fund.
Old 05-16-2006, 01:10 PM
  #14  
Janni
Advanced
 
Janni's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2001
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Random Thoughts -

1. The article is inflammatory - typically leaving out the actual skills of the CGT driver and the circumstances leading up to the crash.

2. It's great that we're all disturbed about the people suing - but you can guaran-damn-tee that is any of the HPDE folks met a similar fate - and our survivors thought that there were factors OTHER than our skill or lack thereof that contributed to our demise -they'd be suing, too. It's just a reaction to blame others - and in some instances - it can affect changes that might save lives.

3. I think the larger problem is twofold - 1) the performance dichotomy between your typical rental car (4 banger - drive with 2 feet - floor it and go) that is virtually too anemic to get into trouble. MANY of the folks now buying high performance cars have only driven these cars growing up, etc. and 2) even some of the "other" high HP cars they have driven have isolated them from the road they are completely unaware of how to actually make DRIVING an active pursuit - instead of something they are doing while they talk on the phone. Put that person into a car that requires you to be an active participant in piloting the car - and you have a resipe for disaster.

I DO think that good DE events - ones with actual instruction and good car control and vehicle dynamics classroom discussions - CAN save your life many times over in your daily driver. Other events, though - that turn into more like free for all track time - can truly make people feel invincible and like they are far more capable than they really are.... scary.

Be safe out there.
Old 05-16-2006, 01:22 PM
  #15  
Wicked Weasel
Team Owner
 
Wicked Weasel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 24,652
Received 297 Likes on 94 Posts
St. Jude Donor '05-'08

Default

Originally Posted by Janni
I DO think that good DE events - ones with actual instruction and good car control and vehicle dynamics classroom discussions - CAN save your life many times over in your daily driver.


Just getting lectured time and time again to look further and further down the track and look where I want to go not what I was going to hit has been a great help.

Last edited by Wicked Weasel; 05-16-2006 at 01:26 PM.
Old 05-16-2006, 01:24 PM
  #16  
yellow01
Le Mans Master
 
yellow01's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: Murphy TX
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Janni
2. It's great that we're all disturbed about the people suing - but you can guaran-damn-tee that is any of the HPDE folks met a similar fate - and our survivors thought that there were factors OTHER than our skill or lack thereof that contributed to our demise -they'd be suing, too. It's just a reaction to blame others - and in some instances - it can affect changes that might save lives.
If there was negligence that's one thing (I don't want to revivie the CGT discussion), but why is she suing Porsche? The a-arm didn't break... Car didn't spontaneously combust...

Yes, it's a reaction to blame others, but these suits have long term consequences, not all of them good.

JMHO.
Old 05-16-2006, 01:30 PM
  #17  
Wicked Weasel
Team Owner
 
Wicked Weasel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 24,652
Received 297 Likes on 94 Posts
St. Jude Donor '05-'08

Default

Originally Posted by yellow01
If there was negligence that's one thing (I don't want to revivie the CGT discussion), but why is she suing Porsche? The a-arm didn't break... Car didn't spontaneously combust...

Yes, it's a reaction to blame others, but these suits have long term consequences, not all of them good.

JMHO.
and there is a chance that Porsche will lose.

My friends owns a large pool company. they make the pools only. they do not sell them to people nor do they install the pools. He tells me story upon story of how he is getting sued because the babysitter forgot to lock the gate and the baby drowned or some kid breaks a leg when he decided that jumping from his house into the pool was cool.

Everything that he gets sued for is amazing since none of the lawsuits have anything to do with the construction of the pool. The worse part is that many of the judges do not want to hear anything from him. They just say he is at fault.

Get notified of new replies

To When speed and wealth collide!

Old 05-16-2006, 01:33 PM
  #18  
95jersey
Le Mans Master
 
95jersey's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 1999
Location: Private
Posts: 5,464
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by yellow01
If there was negligence that's one thing (I don't want to revivie the CGT discussion), but why is she suing Porsche? The a-arm didn't break... Car didn't spontaneously combust...

Yes, it's a reaction to blame others, but these suits have long term consequences, not all of them good.

JMHO.
If she has the money to pursue them (sounds like she does), then the manufacturers will have to defend themselves and that costs lots of money. I wouldn't be suprised if they offered an out of court settlement, even for something so ridiculous. If there are enough of these, the business folks will start taking notice.
Old 05-16-2006, 01:52 PM
  #19  
freefall
Burning Brakes
 
freefall's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2003
Location: Los Gatos CA
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Janni
something they are doing while they talk on the phone
too true! it's no longer talking on the phone while driving...
Old 05-16-2006, 02:10 PM
  #20  
Falcon
Le Mans Master

 
Falcon's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 1999
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 6,692
Received 54 Likes on 23 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 95jersey
If she has the money to pursue them (sounds like she does), then the manufacturers will have to defend themselves and that costs lots of money. I wouldn't be suprised if they offered an out of court settlement, even for something so ridiculous. If there are enough of these, the business folks will start taking notice.
Keep in mind, this suit is being pushed by her attorneys who are working on a contingency. She has no financial stake in the outcome except the possible award she will get.


Quick Reply: When speed and wealth collide!



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:34 PM.