RAFTRACER

3011's and 3013's Koni's have rebound adjusters which take up shock travel ( located under upper mountings) and typically need shortened on lower cars. If 3013's or 11's are ever custom valved they automatically become shortened as they have to cut off the "crimped" together upper top. The 3013's and 11's are manufactured and are stocked as a certain application, all 2812's are custom built from scratch.The 3011's adjustement for compression dampening is a major PITA. shock must be fully compressed with "button" depressed and rotating shaft/body while doing so. Although they are cheaper than the 2812's, I would opt to spend the extra money to have the 2812's. The 2812's when inverted (as they should be built, but I believe they do both ways) allow easy quick adjustment to rebound and compression settings as they are located at the bottom of the shock near the lower mountings through a visible window. The rears on my car I can do laying on the gorund without raising the car at all. The fronts I need to jack up the car, because it sits very low. Although at factory ride hieght I believe that you would still have to jack up the car. Another difference between the 3011/3013's and the 2812's is how large of an adjustment range that you have....the 2812's have a larger adjustment range. Additionally the 3011/3013's can not be built inverted if that matters to you (read , adjustments are not as easily accomplished.) However, Mike Jr. Johnson won the solo2 nationals this year in ASP on a set of modified and custom valved 3011's (they stsrted life as a set of too long 3013's from Strano parts, before they were "rafted" by Koni. I obviously prefer the 2812's.

As far as Penskes go, I always liked my Penskes, and when bought as double adjustable with resevoirs the compression adjustment is very easy to get to as long as the resevoirs are located in a reasonable area. The rebound adjustment in the front is as easy as the Koni 2812 when inverted, but the rear rebound adjustment on the Penskes is a PITA , and unfortuneatly this is the adjustment that I play with the most. On the Penske it is located in the underside middle of the "horseshoe" bracket which makes it hard to access because of the lower control arm.

I have no experience with Moton or Ohlins although I know they make very high quality dampners ( they better be $$$$ ), maybe one day I will have personal experience with these, but I am very happy currently.....

wtknght1

You guys are killin' me...just killin me!!

Look, no offense to anybody on here, but quit throwing money away on this stuff...you'll drive yourself nuts! Spend your money on schools, tires and brakes - in that order. If you feel froggy, put a set of T1 sway bars on there (and properly cornerweight the car) to reduce the body roll. A well driven STOCK vette with good tires and brakes will dust all but a rare few cars out there. If you keep the mods down, you'll break less often and have a much better time at the track...and as a bonus, get more seat time!!

These multi-adjustable shocks you're contemplating take hours and hours to properly tune to get the maximum benefit. And, IF you ever get them tuned perfectly, you MIGHT gain 1 second per lap over a stock set of SACHS ($600 per set) or some other good shock.

Yep, Lance Knupp won the runoffs using the Moton shocks. Those shocks cost around $7-8K and he spent another $$$$ renting tracks, getting the suspension engineers from Moton to come to the track, data acquisition, etc, etc, etc. But, most drivers (including me) can't get the maximum out of our cars as it is...much less adding another multi-adjustable whatever to confuse the situation further.

Sorry if I offended anyone or just went off on another one of my rants ...but I had to say something. Have a great year!!

rlsedition

It seems Raftracer has been there/done that on Corvette shocks, so I won't take issue with his report, except that the upcoming Corvette 3013s are inverted bodies, partly so the adjustment windows have easier access.

Comparing 2812s to modded 3011s or 3013s? Of course the 2812s are more adjustment friendly - they're a racing shock and they cost 3x-4x as much to buy!

RAFTRACER

I beleive the upcoming 3013's are FSD's are they not ???? I will talk to my people, but I supplied the car for the developement of that shock last year.

RLS....You seem very well versed in KONI-spec yourself

rlsedition

No, the new 3013s are a development of the current C5 units, but with inverted bodies, a slightly modified length to accommodate both C5/C6 chassis designs and easier-to-access adjustment windows.

And we also have new FSDs for C5/C6.

RAFTRACER

RLS works for Koni........Welcome to our world RLS........Thanks for sharing on this forum and look forward to working with you and the others @ Koni-NA.

Solofast

I have a set of 3013's that I had Pro parts build upside down for me and they are very easy to adjust rebound, even in between autocross runs. You can dive under the car and reset each shock in just a couple of minutes without jacking up the car.

Raftracer is right in that the compression adjustment in the rear is a PITA since you have to take the shock out of the car to adjust compression. He did have one thing wrong tho, you have to have the shock FULLY EXTENDED to adjust compression. Then you depress the button with a tool and turn the shaft relative to the housing to reset.

In the front you can loosen the the top nut some, put a jack under the lower control arm and depress the button and actually do the front compression faster than your tires will cool off between test day runs. It takes about five to seven minutes to do each front shock. Since typically most folks don't change compression very often (if at all) having a shock that takes some time to change compression isn't a bad compromise.

Not that I am all that happy with the valving of the shocks, but they were a custom valving job, and that is another topic of discussion...

Properly valved they could be a good compromise and are a bit less expensive than the 2812's. If I had to do it all over again I'd do the 2812's, since it lets you try the range of settings faster on a test day and gets you to the same place a lot quicker.

gkmccready

Am I the only one that hates sweep adjusters? I really find them a pain in the ****. Is there any reason they can't be click?

Aaron Pfadt

This is a great discussion. Even a suspension guy like myself can learn what is out there on the market and what is coming up. However, I agree with Chris. Put some good sways on the car and go hammer on it. These Corvettes are faster then most anything you are likely to meet even in stock trim.

There are advantages to certain shocks over others and certain settings over other settings on the same shocks. However I think it takes more track time and measuring equipment and consistant driving than most of us are capable of to take advantage of those benefits. How many people take the time to properly tune the alignment for any given track, how about tire pressures? I know that I don't in most cases. If I had a paid pit crew following me everytime I took the track then maybe. Tuning shocks is another level of sophistication from there with less lap time benefits.

I'd run with the Z51 shocks until they gave up or I decided I needed more spring rate. Then I would put some coil overs on and give the spring rates a bump and have some damping to match.

ciao,
Aaron

ghoffman

Any pics of the 3013 yet? JRZ, Pro-track and Moton are all ex-Koni guys I understand. I am looking forward to perhaps getting a ride in Aaron's car at the Spring Mountain event!

rlsedition

As a former racer (two wheels) I can empathize with those who say "just get out there and run your car - don't worry about all the adjustments". On the other hand, as a manufacturer we have to satisfy all types of customers, some of whom like to tune their own rides.

That's why KONI will have two shocks available for the C5/C6, one that self-adjusts, the other requiring owner involvement to set the damping.

On the new 3013, its not "all-new", just revised by repositioning the heavier portion toward the sprung mass and, in the process, making the adjustment windows easier to access. We tweaked the base settings and revised the overall length slightly as well, to enable fitment to both C5 and C6 generations.

savage

lets flash forward 8 years, your rant still ring's true. I WAS LOOKING AT ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS and found your post. i glad i did, the only thing im going to do to my c7 z51 is sway bars for now.

smellya

I am with you on this one... I bought a set up car. I only fix what breaks. I have not messed with anything but getting a simple alinement done. When I get better in like 5 years I will buy something to get the last bit out of my pile.

redtopz

I agree it's wise to start with non adjustable shocks at first and just focus on driving and basic setup on the car. I raced T1 for a couple years with base Sachs shocks for that very reason. But after a couple more year's experience, now with triple motons, I would never go back.

strano@stranoparts.com

I think people are scared of adjustable shocks for no reason. Especially singles. You adjust things every day to suit your liking, but for some reason shocks freak people out...

I run Koni's a LOT. Had great success on them even when directly up against more adjustable more expensive shocks. Hard to argue with the results I've had mostly on single Koni's. And there are choices today that weren't around before like the Ridetech/Fox stuff. I am working with them a bit on a few things but the basics are there IMHO just need a few little production tweaks (like bumpstops which we are discussing).

My Koni's ride better than any of my OEM C5 or C6 shocks. That ranges from the 2000 FRC to 2007 Z06 to 2012 GS dampers. While riding better give me far more planted feel and the ability to alter the way the car turns in and feels/responds.

I sell other shocks, all the way up to MCS (formerly Moton before they were bought by AST so they started their own thing). MCS are IMHO the nicest of the high end shocks, but the bang for the buck is with the Koni's, which is why right now that's what is on my car. I had MCS and sold 'em. I'm playing the the Fox stuff on my FRC. I had KW's for a while (not bad but adjustment is a pain in the ***).

mountainbiker2

There's been many times I've played with all the adjuster and still get the same lap time. The car felt much different between the adjustments, but really no better performance in actual time. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.

Steve

naschmitz

Same here for my DA Penskes.

It is a lot of work but if you can find an opportunity to go through the "Basic Start-up Procedure" in the Penske Adjustable Manual (the process is not brand specific), you will learn a ton about what the adjustments can do for you.

strano@stranoparts.com

And a car that feels better is often easier to drive faster. I'm not going to tell you shocks make the difference say tires will. But they do matter. And going fast in a car has a lot to do with confidence.

As for I made changes and saw no lap time difference. Could be many reasons. Maybe it's not a hugely transitional course. Maybe you just drive it the same way despite the feel difference (it happens, people get in a groove and do the same thing over and over).

I run my rears typically pretty soft, but the fronts typically pretty firm. I don't like cars that flop around in front, or have the rear react more quickly to my input than the front. Some do. That's fine, but I like what I like for feel. And shock settings can and do change for me based on any number of things. New tires, different surfaces, alignment tweaks, etc. I don't even run the same settings on the same shocks on my FRC (currently testing different shocks, but not always the case) as my Z06, which was different than what I ran on my Grand Sport.

YMMV

rfn026

This is crazy. When you get to the level being discussed here we also need to be talking about data loggers and shock engineers.

I know one very good shop that won't even sell customers 4-way adjustables unless they know the engineer on the team. They explained to me that in average hands most cars get slower. People are adjusting themselves right out of the ballpark.

The engineers at Bilstein want you to get the spring and sway bar package correct before you do any shocks. Shocks are used for fine tuning. You can't correct handling problems with shocks.

This whole discussion reminds me of my day the Philadlphia PCA region. We were going to get shirts made up with our slogan. "Don't drive better - Spend more money"

Here's my most recent article on shocks.

Richard Newton

0chase@ridetech

I think a good set of single adjustable shocks go a long way. When any car rolls off the assembly line it is set up to please the masses. In most cases the driver is unable to fully utilize the capability of the car. I for one am not able to use either of our C5s to full potential but I do believe having the option to adjust our shocks allows me to improve my personal potential.