waddisme

I have only done a couple of Road Atlanta track days in my TA, but no others. There seems to be alot of threads about the NASA events. Are they better than track days. What would be the difference between the July 14th Road Atlanta event and the August NASA event? Just curious if I could be getting more from the events than just trial and error adjustments. Thanks in advance.

freefall

NASA also has qualifying and races going on during the day. They pack an amazing amount into the day - run times are slightly lower than some other groups, but they do a pretty darn good job staying on schedule and it's exciting to watch. Parking can be a challenge...

AU N EGL

Whom or what club have you done track days with at Road Atlanta?

NASA-SE as with many other clubs have a true High Performance Drivers Event. You will have your in car instructor and class room time. Not just going out and driving on the track.

Many instructors if not most here in the south east instruct for many many differnt clubs.

NASA will also have races going on and Time Trials. There is a lot going on at a NASA Event.

96GS#007

Ditto in other regions.

NASA HPDEs also have more of a racing slant to them than BMW, PCA, etc. Passing rules become more liberal as you move up (ie at the Putnam Plark event a couple weeks ago the Group 3 drivers did not need to receive a point-by to pass in the passing zones, Grp 1/2 did). Grp 4 is the Time Trial group and there are no passing restrictions, including corners.

If you have an interest in time trials, club racing, or racing w2w in one of the many NASA classes, I recommend you give one of their HPDEs a try.

Falcon

Imagine a 3 ring circus with thrilling trapeze acts interspersed with animal trainers putting their heads into the lions' mouth compared to an afternoon bridge game at the club.

That's pretty much the activity level differences between a NASA weekend and other club's weekends. Some like the dizzying activity, OTOH, others like a more relaxed atmosphere.

davidfarmer

I find that NASA novice groups are exactly like other events. The intermediate groups usually have an extra passing zone, while the advanced/solo groups usually run with time trial guys, and have some pretty loose, if not open passing. Instructors usually have open passing.

I really enjoy NASA'a setup. You have the racers to watch between sessions, yet still have a safe time on track. If a race group screws up, NASA does a good job of taking the time back from them, NOT screwing over everybody.

I think it is a nice balanced group to run with.

95jersey

I can't stand when they have races associated with an HPDE. Gives a bad slant on what your there for...usually packs the paddock so tight you can barely find a spot or move your car, AND always results in less track time due to racing practice and such. They are always cutting our sessions down to meet the needs of the racers first, and after paying $300, I just find that unacceptable.

waddisme

The Road Atlanta deal is thru the Panoz Racing School. Yuo spend about 1 hr going over basic track stuff and then if you are a beginner, you spend another hour going over driving basics. You have to do the beginner class first. You spend all day following a pacer car around the track to learn the lines and your car. I have done the class B 2x in the TA now, which is just open track, with passing only on the 3 straights, with point by or not. It really is a great track. I just feel like I need some instructor time and some learning on how changes affect my car. Do you get this with the NASA HPDEs? I will be taking the Z down this time, so I guess I will be starting over. I presume it will be a different driving car than the TA. I just hope it is as much fun as the TA.

davidfarmer

95jersey's experience is not typical of southeast or mid-atlantic events that I've attended (other than possibly crowding at some tracks). Race sessions NEVER cut into HPDE sessions.

Most students I've worked with "dream" of racing, although most realize they don't have the money and/or talent to do it, but enjoy watching the others.

It's a personal choice, but I enjoy it. I instructed and raced at my last NASA event, and all of my sessions (even with many red flags throughout the weekend) ended up being fairly distributed.

Falcon

Yes.

Yes, it is different than the TA. And the fun factor will be significantly increased.

heavychevy

Once you get on the track there is no difference. I think there are WAY too many instructors with not enough criteria behind them to instruct. But if you are a newb and instructor is definitely a very good thing.

MattB

I think its common in NASA to do at least 4 20 minute sessions in HPDE, and the racing does not cut into it. In level 1 you have an instructor in the car with you at all times, and you have group meetings after each session and one-on-one sessions with your instructor to discuss how everyone is doing and talk about how to drive. Depending on you skill level you may spend more than one day in level 1, which is not a bad thing as getting different instructors can really help. After level 1 you are solo but with different degrees of rules and instructors watching you. Also, here in the Rocky Mountain area I know every instructor will ride along with you at any time to give you feed back.

They do every thing they can to get you to the race level, but they also realize that not everyone will go w2w and still cater to them.

I started last year as a complete novice and its a blast, I can't say enough good things about it. I don't think I would have as much fun with just open track days.

BQuicksilver

NASA Pro/Con

Pros:
- Racing to watch in between HPDE sessions.
- Progressive HPDE with looser passing rules and open passing in TT/HPDE4. It's nice if you're trying to move on to racing.
- The same people at a lot of events...there is a bit more of a community feel IMHO.
- Organized in most cases.
- Post session feedback meetings are kinda nice to help eliminate issues before the next session.
- They have a party Saturday night at most events, with free food and beer.

Cons:
- They're willing to BADLY overcrowd the tracks. I've seem them roll 45 cars onto Putnam before.
- Instructors are often busy racing as well, so they tend to want to let you go solo early, maybe before newer guys are ready in some cases.
- They stay on schedule, but that often comes at the expense of HPDE (maybe also the race groups...I don't know). I had a 4 lap "20 minute" session at Mid-Ohio once, and I wasn't running 5min lap times. Races leave wrecked cars and debris, so cleanup time is usually greater at NASA events and will shorten sessions.

Overall, they pull off some BIG events relatively well. Most of their shortcomings are relatively tough to avoid, and they are always working to make their events better. They take their feedback seriously.

KBRVETTE93

Because there are race classes at NASA events as opposed to local PCA and BMW events, you can pick up some very helpful ideas to improve both your car and driving skills.

NASA is very well run organization that makes newcomers feel welcome and provides a great forum for the more experienced drivers.

StArrow68

Same here in the west, from my POV, NASA gets dates at places and
at times that other groups can't get them. Here it is to run at Infineon/
Sears Point on weekends and at Laguna Seca other than during winter.
However, they do significantly crowd the track, 45 to 60 cars vs. 24/33
cars with private HPDE groups if they are full, which doesn't always
happen at the private days. NASA is usually pretty full. Here NASA $
is lower and time on track at 4/20 min sessions is lower too so it is close
to $/lap equal. NASA is just different and until you try both you won't
know which works better, or like me, will find that both work, just at
different times.
Key thing about NASA or other HPDE is that it isn't a driving school or
race school. Unless you are lucky you can make mistakes that at 70 -
80 - 90 % you won't notice too much but might just bite you later on.
You do usually get what you pay for.
Randy

varkwso

NASA-SE does a pretty good job of weeding out their dead beat instructors. There are a few in about every "club" I have been with - and I have run with just about everyone. Luckily, NASA are still desperate enough to keep me on their staff...

Running a track, as a rookie, without an insructor is not wise. Heck, I like ride alongs with guys - you learn a lot from both seats.

As Falcon says - it is hectic but I enjoy it...I also enjoy the SeatTime days with 20 cars total all day....

outnumbered

One cool thing I experienced was they did a pace lap with a pace car to warm everyone up.

The next thing is they have huge events. When I first looked at the morning gathering, I was concerned about the event being a cluster %^$&.

It turned out to be the most organized and well ran event I had ever been to.

I also noticed that the participants were more race minded than HPDE minded or skilled.

I was very impressed.

BuckeyeZ06

My first "on track" experience was with a NASA HPDE 2 group at Mid Ohio in April 2003. I was driving a 2002 Z06...great fun, but boring when I started passing everyone in the group.

My daughter is just starting her driving license process; she obtained ner learners permit this past Saturday, and this Friday (6/15) she is going through the Mid Ohio Schools Teen Defensive Driving Program.

I noticed today that she enjoys going "through" the faster turns on the way home from soccer practice today. I said to her, "I think you are going to want to race someday." She didn't say anything. A month in the past she would have told me "no" in a determined way. I think she is starting to turn...

Why is this relevant to this subject? I was thinking that maybe she will do an NASA HPDE program early next year. I think NASA does a nice job with tha program. I strongly recommend it.

Bink

Perfect.

AU N EGL

NASA put on very good programs. There is a lot going on at an event. So keeping yourself organized and watching your time is important.

The many NASA events I have attended, an Instructor was not allowed to race at the same event.

Between your run sessions, just walking around the paddock looking at all the different cars, and talking to the differnt drivers is very educational in itself.