Mongoose Motorsports GTP Revisited
08-01-2007, 12:21 PM
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Mongoose Motorsports GTP Revisited
Mongoose Motorsports GTP hits the track for the first time.
(pictures by Melissa)
(the first thread seems to have been archived, otherwise I would have added to it.)
Monday the Mongoose Motorsports GTP hit the track for the first time at Nelson Ledges in Ohio for shakedown and evaluation of the LS7-powered Grand Touring Prototype Corvette replica.
In typical first-time style, there are some teething issues, but overall the test went well, and the car is a blast to drive, attention-getting and fast enough for top-10 placing in One Lap of America comparing it to the times from the 2005 One Lap Nelson Ledges visit.
The day was an Audi Club drivers education school, so there were some wide-eyes when the GTP (and Grand Sport) were rolled into the paddock. They don’t exactly look like Audis. Despite our strange appearance, the Audi guys were very welcoming, and seemed to enjoy the Corvette boys invading their track.
Before lunch car-control sessions were scheduled for the students that included braking exercises (both dry and wet) and a slalom for weight transfer/placement/smoothness) As this was my first time in the GTP and its first time on track, I decided to go ahead and participate. The slow-speed events would give me a feel for the car before it was time to hit the full track.
Braking is very good, quick stops with fair modulation of the brakes. (we will be tuning the compounds and bias in the future) The slalom was also fun, with a good balance. The wide car made for some learning though, as it’s harder to stay off the cones with a vehicle that size.
On track we pretty much wanted to see what the springs felt like, how the car turned, and what problems might develop so it wasn’t a heavy-duty day in terms of mileage. Though we were testing on “street” tires – 335 rear and 295 front Michelin Pilot Sports purchased for One Lap of America in April – the grip was insane. It felt like it had higher grip than the 335 Kumho R-compound equipped Grand Sport replica. Push is light, so it gives good confidence to the driver that the car can be driven hard without a nasty spin being a step away. Comparing it to the Ford GT – I would rate the GTP above it in feel and confidence.
The car is also equipped with an electric steering rack, so you can choose how much effort you want to give it - something very cool when swapping from highway, to track to autocross duty with different needs for driver feel.
There will be spring changes of course, and hopefully we will get into some shock-valving changes in short order. Nelson Ledges is slightly more bumpy than a country dirt road, so it magnifies any shock problem. As you can see from the pictures, we will also be aiming to get body roll under control either through sway bars or springs.
The next test days will be on the 11 and 12 at Roebling Road Raceway in Savannah, GA at my SeatTime days, and I am looking forward to posting more and keeping everyone up to date as the progress moves on.
Jon K
(pictures by Melissa)
(the first thread seems to have been archived, otherwise I would have added to it.)
Monday the Mongoose Motorsports GTP hit the track for the first time at Nelson Ledges in Ohio for shakedown and evaluation of the LS7-powered Grand Touring Prototype Corvette replica.
In typical first-time style, there are some teething issues, but overall the test went well, and the car is a blast to drive, attention-getting and fast enough for top-10 placing in One Lap of America comparing it to the times from the 2005 One Lap Nelson Ledges visit.
The day was an Audi Club drivers education school, so there were some wide-eyes when the GTP (and Grand Sport) were rolled into the paddock. They don’t exactly look like Audis. Despite our strange appearance, the Audi guys were very welcoming, and seemed to enjoy the Corvette boys invading their track.
Before lunch car-control sessions were scheduled for the students that included braking exercises (both dry and wet) and a slalom for weight transfer/placement/smoothness) As this was my first time in the GTP and its first time on track, I decided to go ahead and participate. The slow-speed events would give me a feel for the car before it was time to hit the full track.
Braking is very good, quick stops with fair modulation of the brakes. (we will be tuning the compounds and bias in the future) The slalom was also fun, with a good balance. The wide car made for some learning though, as it’s harder to stay off the cones with a vehicle that size.
On track we pretty much wanted to see what the springs felt like, how the car turned, and what problems might develop so it wasn’t a heavy-duty day in terms of mileage. Though we were testing on “street” tires – 335 rear and 295 front Michelin Pilot Sports purchased for One Lap of America in April – the grip was insane. It felt like it had higher grip than the 335 Kumho R-compound equipped Grand Sport replica. Push is light, so it gives good confidence to the driver that the car can be driven hard without a nasty spin being a step away. Comparing it to the Ford GT – I would rate the GTP above it in feel and confidence.
The car is also equipped with an electric steering rack, so you can choose how much effort you want to give it - something very cool when swapping from highway, to track to autocross duty with different needs for driver feel.
There will be spring changes of course, and hopefully we will get into some shock-valving changes in short order. Nelson Ledges is slightly more bumpy than a country dirt road, so it magnifies any shock problem. As you can see from the pictures, we will also be aiming to get body roll under control either through sway bars or springs.
The next test days will be on the 11 and 12 at Roebling Road Raceway in Savannah, GA at my SeatTime days, and I am looking forward to posting more and keeping everyone up to date as the progress moves on.
Jon K
08-01-2007, 10:23 PM
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Wow, that's just so cool. The car looks great and I liked watching the build-up. Thank you for the update. Do you have shots of the interior and engine?
08-02-2007, 12:51 AM
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I haven't taken any recently, and a "new" interior is on it's way. (New, wider seats, new carpet, etc) but this is essentially what it looks like now (without bare wires, this was during construction)
The engine as of now is a "crate" LS7:
Jon K
The engine as of now is a "crate" LS7:
Jon K
08-02-2007, 01:24 AM
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That thing looks great. Can't wait to see it run the OLOA next year.
I grew up 10 minutes away from where their shop is on Lake Rd. I'll have to swing by sometime when I'm visiting my parents.
I grew up 10 minutes away from where their shop is on Lake Rd. I'll have to swing by sometime when I'm visiting my parents.
08-02-2007, 11:00 AM
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I did get to autocross it a few weeks ago, and did a session on the track day on Monday. It is the total opposite of the GTP - brutish but still fun. It looks like I will be running it at the Run N' Gun as well, along with a few other events.
Jon K
08-02-2007, 01:11 PM
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Yes, for now. They had had good luck with automatics in the past once they had cooling issues worked out, and it helped with packaging/linkage. This one is setup a little rough (built for drag racing) so it's part of the "teething" issues.
We are working on a paddle shift setup now, hopefully it will make a bit of difference.
Jon
We are working on a paddle shift setup now, hopefully it will make a bit of difference.
Jon
08-02-2007, 01:51 PM
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It is the second one we put in it, so I don't know too much about it at this point. The first one came out of a catalog, worked well, but was something like 6 turns lock-to-lock.
This one is either another company making one, or that company modifying the one we had. It is now 2.5 turns lock-to-lock. It has 5 settings, from 0 assist to 100% I was running it on 40% but might need to go to 60%.
We would have gone with a Vette rack (to match the rest of the C5 suspension) but it needed to have a center gear as the left-side would have gotten in the way of master-cyl and such in the limited space.
I don't have any pictures of it though.. sorry.
Jon K
This one is either another company making one, or that company modifying the one we had. It is now 2.5 turns lock-to-lock. It has 5 settings, from 0 assist to 100% I was running it on 40% but might need to go to 60%.
We would have gone with a Vette rack (to match the rest of the C5 suspension) but it needed to have a center gear as the left-side would have gotten in the way of master-cyl and such in the limited space.
I don't have any pictures of it though.. sorry.
Jon K
08-02-2007, 03:05 PM
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It is the second one we put in it, so I don't know too much about it at this point. The first one came out of a catalog, worked well, but was something like 6 turns lock-to-lock.
This one is either another company making one, or that company modifying the one we had. It is now 2.5 turns lock-to-lock. It has 5 settings, from 0 assist to 100% I was running it on 40% but might need to go to 60%.
We would have gone with a Vette rack (to match the rest of the C5 suspension) but it needed to have a center gear as the left-side would have gotten in the way of master-cyl and such in the limited space.
I don't have any pictures of it though.. sorry.
Jon K
This one is either another company making one, or that company modifying the one we had. It is now 2.5 turns lock-to-lock. It has 5 settings, from 0 assist to 100% I was running it on 40% but might need to go to 60%.
We would have gone with a Vette rack (to match the rest of the C5 suspension) but it needed to have a center gear as the left-side would have gotten in the way of master-cyl and such in the limited space.
I don't have any pictures of it though.. sorry.
Jon K
08-02-2007, 03:08 PM
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Jon
08-21-2007, 10:19 AM
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Track days #2 and 3 for the Mongoose Motorsports GTP..
Since the last event the car aquired some Bilstein sport shocks, and the automatic transmission was reprogramed to try to make the shifts softer. We also were going to put a 100% manual valve body in so I could control all of the shifting, but it had a "near 100%" in it and were not able to do anything with it as of yet.
So we took the car to the NASA weekend at Mid Ohio the 18/19 and hoped to have made some progress in getting this thing faster. As a cruise-around car it's great, but what good is a GTP replica that can't "paint the track black" as Danny Popp put it so well.
The car is a huge attention-getter, my voice was a little sore on Saturday after answering so many questions, and I even caught Scotty White looking it over on Sunday.
Of course.. the transmission isn't going to work for roadracing.. we were hoping for a little better results, and though the shifts were softer, it still wasn't what we needed. What essentially happens is this: I go into a corner and the car stays in gear, if I am confident enough to get the car to the edge of traction and push the gas to accelerate out of the corner, the transmission says "oh.. he wants to go" - and downshifts. Dumping into "passing gear" while already at the limits isn't cool. Needless to say, I didn't try to spend much time at the limits of traction. There is a paddle shift kit for the auto, and hopefully it will be going in over the next week. They are also going to figure out a way to run the shift linkage and see if the C6 6-speed auto will fit in it.
The good news: the car is fast. I was passed by a TTS C4 going into the keyhole (hairpin type corner) and he got off the corner well. About mid way down the back straight I was closing on him at what felt like 10-15mph. The speedo wasn't working, but I would figure he was doing 130 or so, making my speed 140-145.. I am very excited about that aspect of the car.
The other limiting factor was brakes, the compound on the car has very little modulation capabilities, and goes from gentle braking to "ah ^#%$" lockup in a heartbeat. I am also thinking that a brake bias controller is going to be needed.
Day two, the rain.
I really felt like the rain salvaged our weekend, as it would give me a chance to feel the Michelin tires in the wet, which is a must for One Lap, and we could see what if anything broke in the rain, and where water might be coming in the car.
The bad news: this being the prototype the rain drain channels in the doors had been cut off (not so on the three being built now) and it let a little water through, which at speed made for a nice misting sensation.
The good news: despite all the water, we had no electrical problems, all of the guages kept working, so it looks like many of the water issues may be kept away.
The better news: In a straight line, and even in steady-state cornering, this thing has a ton of grip in the wet. Despite offset puddles on the back straight, the car stayed planted at almost the same speeds I had been doing in the dry. turn one felt very planted and I was creeping up on speed there but there was never really a hint of instability and the little sliding it did was balanced. Despite the high-hp and rwd, I am looking forward to the wet competition days in this car.
Next up, a Corvette event at Nelson Ledges, and more testing before the Kit car Run N' Gun at Gateway International Raceway in October.
Jon K
Since the last event the car aquired some Bilstein sport shocks, and the automatic transmission was reprogramed to try to make the shifts softer. We also were going to put a 100% manual valve body in so I could control all of the shifting, but it had a "near 100%" in it and were not able to do anything with it as of yet.
So we took the car to the NASA weekend at Mid Ohio the 18/19 and hoped to have made some progress in getting this thing faster. As a cruise-around car it's great, but what good is a GTP replica that can't "paint the track black" as Danny Popp put it so well.
The car is a huge attention-getter, my voice was a little sore on Saturday after answering so many questions, and I even caught Scotty White looking it over on Sunday.
Of course.. the transmission isn't going to work for roadracing.. we were hoping for a little better results, and though the shifts were softer, it still wasn't what we needed. What essentially happens is this: I go into a corner and the car stays in gear, if I am confident enough to get the car to the edge of traction and push the gas to accelerate out of the corner, the transmission says "oh.. he wants to go" - and downshifts. Dumping into "passing gear" while already at the limits isn't cool. Needless to say, I didn't try to spend much time at the limits of traction. There is a paddle shift kit for the auto, and hopefully it will be going in over the next week. They are also going to figure out a way to run the shift linkage and see if the C6 6-speed auto will fit in it.
The good news: the car is fast. I was passed by a TTS C4 going into the keyhole (hairpin type corner) and he got off the corner well. About mid way down the back straight I was closing on him at what felt like 10-15mph. The speedo wasn't working, but I would figure he was doing 130 or so, making my speed 140-145.. I am very excited about that aspect of the car.
The other limiting factor was brakes, the compound on the car has very little modulation capabilities, and goes from gentle braking to "ah ^#%$" lockup in a heartbeat. I am also thinking that a brake bias controller is going to be needed.
Day two, the rain.
I really felt like the rain salvaged our weekend, as it would give me a chance to feel the Michelin tires in the wet, which is a must for One Lap, and we could see what if anything broke in the rain, and where water might be coming in the car.
The bad news: this being the prototype the rain drain channels in the doors had been cut off (not so on the three being built now) and it let a little water through, which at speed made for a nice misting sensation.
The good news: despite all the water, we had no electrical problems, all of the guages kept working, so it looks like many of the water issues may be kept away.
The better news: In a straight line, and even in steady-state cornering, this thing has a ton of grip in the wet. Despite offset puddles on the back straight, the car stayed planted at almost the same speeds I had been doing in the dry. turn one felt very planted and I was creeping up on speed there but there was never really a hint of instability and the little sliding it did was balanced. Despite the high-hp and rwd, I am looking forward to the wet competition days in this car.
Next up, a Corvette event at Nelson Ledges, and more testing before the Kit car Run N' Gun at Gateway International Raceway in October.
Jon K
