Goodwood

I'd like to get a very basic, cheap lap timer to record my lap times, and see my improvement throughout the day. What do you guys recommend?

Z06cool

Generally speaking, most HPDE events don't allow the use of timers, especially in the case of the beginner participant. There's so much to take in as you are starting out, timers are frowned upon (from most events I've attended). For me, it was smoothness and consistency, lap after lap.

Something else to think about is your insurance policy may specifically prohibit "racing" or competitive timed events. This would put you in that bracket.

The bug strikes hard, just gotta try to be patient and keep a handle on it. After 16+ weekend events, I don't consider myself advanced (at least in how I perceive an advanced driver should be). There's still so much to learn just from seat time and I'm starting to look into data aquisition but the recommendation out there in the community is that it's not for the NOOB.

Keep on driving...

joemoia

Hotlap

http://www.longacreracing.com/catalo...d=274&catid=10


or ultra-lap

http://www.cc-2000.com/xtracing/en/products.html

Bill Hetzel

I'm a 5+ year instructor, SCCA,HPDE's with Vette's. As a new driver, your lap times aren't going to tell you much. Like Zcool said, you need to be smooth and consistant. I tell drivers that If they can get the lines right in 2 out of 12(or whatever) corners, it was a good session.

It's possible to lower your lap times just by going a little faster and still be running incorrect lines in every corner. So, running a lap timer at this time won't be much help.

The best way to find out if you are running correctly and lowering your lap times is to have an instructor in the car ( not watching from the side of the track). Also, the quality of feedback from instructors will vary all over the place from almost no communication at all to guys that use an intercom in the car.

Run enough events to start feeling comfortable in the car and then get a laptimer.

If you take a 3 day school, like Jim Russell, to get a racing license, the instructors still won't tell you your laptimes and if you ask about them, they'll tell you "That's not what you're here for".

That being said, the least expensive laptimer is a stopwatch. I used stopwatches in cars for a long time back when data systems with timers were $4,000. You can get a Robic watch with 80 lap memory for $50. But, you would have to mount it where the button is easy to click, the display is hard to see and you need to hit the button on a long straight at the same place every time (and never when other cars are beside you). So much for cheap. The next move up would be a stand alone system like a HotLap. Keep in mind that with this kind of system, you're going to have to find a place to mount the receiver and the display.
The HotLap system is $230 from someone like Longacre Racing.
I'm not a HotLap fan, they seem to have some problems when used on a open wheel car. Heck, I have 2 of these laying in the shop that I don't use. PM me in interested.
I use an AIM system from a gokart on my older Formula Ford that works well. Do search for AIM data acquisition, they have a stand alone laptimer. Or go to www.veracitydata.com, extremely knowledgeable and friendly racers.
Good Luck

TommyBoy72

Ultra-Lap worked pretty well. I used one for awhile but I'm very forgetful and finally left the transmitter at the track and was gone before I got back to it. Other than the one issue, it worked great and was very helpful. I'm selling the one I have (minus transmitter of course) as I just bought a pricier GPS based unit to eliminate the need to remember stuff.. Shoot me a PM, I'd give a good deal if you promise to use it. Otherwise it will sit in the garage where I left it last until I buy a track bike.

John Shiels

stop watch and a GF is great. Fun to time yourself to see progress. Video tape then time it at home

Goodwood

What's a GF, a girlfriend? With an instuctor in the car, and no riders permitted at this time, that's pretty much out of the question. But, really, I like the idea of a stopwatch. If I could just figure out where to have it so I could click it off without doing anything squirrely in the process! I just want a ballpark lap time. It doesn't have to be within any factions of seconds.

TommyBoy72

I believe he meant a GF or friend in the stands. They just pick a line (usually start/finish) and time your laps and write them down manually. I've had people do this for me but it tends to have errors and its a lot more useful to see it real time to see if the thing you did last lap worked or not. Then you get into segment times which again is complex with a stopwatch.

StArrow68

As noted above, some groups discourage timing, mostly due to insurance
issues but also as noted, timing may encourage you to push for time
before you get the line down smooth and consistent. I didn't time for
almost a year and I did a lot of events, 15+ that year. Some groups, at
least here, rent AMB timers, that use the track timing system and you
get to look at times after getting back to paddock. I got tried of rent $
so I bought one, not cheap but in my case has finally paid itself off.

In car timing like Hot-Lap or Ultra are good but to be honest with my
Hot-Lap I don't have time to see the time every lap, you do get busier
as you go faster. I replay my Hot-Lap after getting back in the pits
when I don't have a group running AMB. None of the systems, except
for hand timing from the stands is cheap.

The input about a race school at Russell is just a bit out of date, they
now show you timing at the end of the second day and for each session
of the third day. They still focus on smooth and being precise on the
line but want you to think back over a session and get used to knowing
when you "did it right" for most of a lap. If you pick the fast lap then
they start getting into more detail on how to improve.
Randy

BTW I did self time with the in car C5 CID stop watch. Of course it isn't
simple, what ever is. You set the start on a straight and then hit the off
at the same point next lap. Of course on that straight you are going as
fast as you are any place on track so you can't look so you hit your brake
point into turn 1. Then next time around you get a glance, and one lap
after that you hit reset and then the following lap you try for another.
One lap out of four or so isn't going to tell you much. As I found out.
Not recommended!

Wicked Weasel

well I am testing a new GPS that I came across.

I bought one for running and thought hey if it works for running why not on the track. It fits on your hand and allows you to mark your position so each time you pass that position it starts a new lap and time.

I have not tried it on the track yet, but I think it will work. This would be a cheap alternative if it did work. I will let you know.

Rob Burgoon

+1 for ultra lap. As soon as you turn "intermediate" it can start reinforcing "smooth equals fast".

BQuicksilver

I'm selling my ultra-lap with software and beacon for $200 if anyone is interested.

Lancer033

also gives you the benefit of being able to watch your driving and evaluate it later. you can learn a lot from the video

AU N EGL

One Missippissi, Two Missippissi. . . . Just kidding

MyLaptimes.com with a AMB Transponder. Most tracks now have the timing in place that you can use your system. If you get into any time trails mostly likely you will need an AMB transponder anyway.

There is a AMB transponder reader ( or something like that) will fit into a GameBoy for easy reading too.

My Laps - AMB Transponder

http://www.mylaps.com/

Goodwood

Although I wouldn't mind asking my instructor if he would time me with a stopwatch, just so I have some idea of how long it takes me to get around Gingerman.

rbl

Well, a shameless plug ... mine is GPS and it stores 10 tracks (and remembers them), sets up to 4 user selectable Marker locations and SF on each, does segment times, lap times and predictive lap times at each Marker and records >1000laps with time stamped sessions. Haven't completed the Data Manager software yet ... soon. I will have one in my car for final testing at VIR late August w/Track Daze and Mazda.

Initial testing was at VIR in Richard Watts T1 and it was great .... very, very accurate.

I made this as a hobby ... lol and I am deciding if I want to actually build them for sale. I can do it at a decent price ~$550 but right now it is just for fun.

Bill Hetzel

The input about a race school at Russell is just a bit out of date, they
now show you timing at the end of the second day and for each session
of the third day. They still focus on smooth and being precise on the
line but want you to think back over a session and get used to knowing
when you "did it right" for most of a lap. If you pick the fast lap then
they start getting into more detail on how to improve.
Randy

That's interesting, Randy. Things change. I was there maybe 8 years ago. I'd been running Sears Point for 11 years in karts ( with a stopwatch mounted on the steering wheel). I asked one of the instructors about lap times and he almost bit my head off.

73-84 IMSA Widebody

I was voting for the stop watch and a GF........my wife won't go for it though

StArrow68

Bill, I took advanced racing last April and have done it each year for the
last 4 years. Things have migrated some over that period but getting
you to focus on which laps were 'comfortable' and not pushed and then
seeing when you are fast seems to convince some folks that relaxed
and smoothe is faster. They ask you to recap the session and of course
you mention when you slide or correct and lo and behold, slow laps.
Timing is useful, but not until you get down the concepts that produce
a good line and then the practice that lets you repeat it.
Randy

robvuk

This sounds like it will be very cool but I have a question. Is GPS really accurate enough for this type of work? As a boater, I've found that a 100ft error is not all that uncommon. That could be more than a full second depending on where your start point is. A couple of boat lengths is no big deal but 6 or 8 car lengths is.