Not Welcome at GingerMan Raceway
08-04-2007, 02:56 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Not Welcome at GingerMan Raceway
Last Thursday night I organized a group of friends and business associates to run the Evening Test and Tune at GingerMan. It's a 2 1/2 hour drive plus the time change so everyone took a vacation day. Our little group was 4 vettes, along with an M roadster, Impala SS and Mistu 3000 GT.
My co-worker with the Impala was registered, paid, suited up and heading to grid to run with our group, when the track manager stopped him and told him he could not run! The reason: His car was too big and heavy and not "sporty enough". (The track manager is wearing his PCA Tee shirt.
)
I asked the track manager if he would look at the brakes and a few other things on the Impala and he refused, saying that insurance regulations would not permit the car on track!!!!!!!!!!
This same 94 Impala and driver was the Mid-Priced Sedan winner in the Car & Driver One Lap at least once that I can remember. It is outfitted with Wilwood GN calipers & rotors, (same caliper used on Winston Cup cars running at Watkins Glen) lowered on Eibach springs, Koni adjustables, Hodgkiss sway bars, ZF 6-speed manual, etc, etc, etc.
Dave has run this car at Road America, Watkins Glen, Blackhawk Farms, And GingerMan many times. His lap times have been consistent with experienced drivers running C4 Corvettes on R-compound tires (he runs full depth Michelins). He was really looking forward to running a new 383 engine that recently replaced the aging LT1.
Dave packs up the car and leaves with his son and friend after fighting manger for a refund on his credit card. I talk to track owner (Dan S.) and he refuses to over rule his manger. Dave has been giving manager attitude... yeah, like the manger isn't being a bit of an ***.
The rest of us decided to continue, but a cloud was over the whole evening. Meanwhile the manager has no problem letting a 4 door 280 Mercedes on track, a poorly maintained 3 Series with a driver that can't tell a checker from a black flag. We had to put up with a 911 racecar that seemed to be more of a rolling chicane that anything, as well as a lot of foreign speaking drivers that couldn't drive nor could they point you by. Then he added a fourth run group of these clowns with there superior German cars which cut down on our track time even more. They had to red flag one session because on of these geniuses ignored several black flags.
I know I will never organize another outing at GingerMan, and it's doubtful that I will run there again after this experience. It used to be one of my favorite tracks. Its three days later and I'm still upset.
Going to GingerMan? Call ahead to find out if your car is on the A-list. It may not be "cool" enough to run.
My co-worker with the Impala was registered, paid, suited up and heading to grid to run with our group, when the track manager stopped him and told him he could not run! The reason: His car was too big and heavy and not "sporty enough". (The track manager is wearing his PCA Tee shirt.
)I asked the track manager if he would look at the brakes and a few other things on the Impala and he refused, saying that insurance regulations would not permit the car on track!!!!!!!!!!
This same 94 Impala and driver was the Mid-Priced Sedan winner in the Car & Driver One Lap at least once that I can remember. It is outfitted with Wilwood GN calipers & rotors, (same caliper used on Winston Cup cars running at Watkins Glen) lowered on Eibach springs, Koni adjustables, Hodgkiss sway bars, ZF 6-speed manual, etc, etc, etc.
Dave has run this car at Road America, Watkins Glen, Blackhawk Farms, And GingerMan many times. His lap times have been consistent with experienced drivers running C4 Corvettes on R-compound tires (he runs full depth Michelins). He was really looking forward to running a new 383 engine that recently replaced the aging LT1.
Dave packs up the car and leaves with his son and friend after fighting manger for a refund on his credit card. I talk to track owner (Dan S.) and he refuses to over rule his manger. Dave has been giving manager attitude... yeah, like the manger isn't being a bit of an ***.
The rest of us decided to continue, but a cloud was over the whole evening. Meanwhile the manager has no problem letting a 4 door 280 Mercedes on track, a poorly maintained 3 Series with a driver that can't tell a checker from a black flag. We had to put up with a 911 racecar that seemed to be more of a rolling chicane that anything, as well as a lot of foreign speaking drivers that couldn't drive nor could they point you by. Then he added a fourth run group of these clowns with there superior German cars which cut down on our track time even more. They had to red flag one session because on of these geniuses ignored several black flags.
I know I will never organize another outing at GingerMan, and it's doubtful that I will run there again after this experience. It used to be one of my favorite tracks. Its three days later and I'm still upset.
Going to GingerMan? Call ahead to find out if your car is on the A-list. It may not be "cool" enough to run.
08-04-2007, 03:12 PM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
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WHAT?????
I had a student once with an Impala SS. It was a blast. Big YES, but not sporty? no way, it is a great car for tracking.
Easy to block other cars too
I had a student once with an Impala SS. It was a blast. Big YES, but not sporty? no way, it is a great car for tracking.
Easy to block other cars too
08-04-2007, 03:25 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
This is absolutley ! I Know that impalla cause I ran with them in the 01-02 One Lap, they are great drivers and have a safe fast car. I think the guy with Porsche shirt was affraid he was going to get spanked by this big old BOAT! 
Sounds like you had more patience than I would have had with the track mananger and owner.
Sorry to hear about this ordeal.
! I Know that impalla cause I ran with them in the 01-02 One Lap, they are great drivers and have a safe fast car. I think the guy with Porsche shirt was affraid he was going to get spanked by this big old BOAT! Sounds like you had more patience than I would have had with the track mananger and owner.
Sorry to hear about this ordeal.
08-04-2007, 03:26 PM
#4
Team Owner
That sucks...I just spent about 35 minutes on the phone with the track manager today.
A couple of people asked me about putting together something there since its more economical and we could run a smaller group.
I wasn't too impressed when I initially contacted them 6 years ago and the new manager seemed decent but after what you ran into that kind of bugs me.
Wonder if they allow 300c's, Chargers, or even the new Challenger when it comes out. About the same weight.
Did the guy get his money back?
A couple of people asked me about putting together something there since its more economical and we could run a smaller group.
I wasn't too impressed when I initially contacted them 6 years ago and the new manager seemed decent but after what you ran into that kind of bugs me.
Wonder if they allow 300c's, Chargers, or even the new Challenger when it comes out. About the same weight.
Did the guy get his money back?
08-04-2007, 03:32 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
Eric,
The track manger that was there Thursday night was named Gary. Dan Schnitta said he had two managers if I remember correctly.
Maybe you can run those cars if you remind Gary that they were built by Daimler-Chrysler. With their German heritage....
Yes, he did get his money back, but there was some hassle over getting both wrist bands back first. Both enty fees were on the same credit car, but Dave's son was way down on the infield when this happened, so we had to locate him first.
Erik
The track manger that was there Thursday night was named Gary. Dan Schnitta said he had two managers if I remember correctly.
Maybe you can run those cars if you remind Gary that they were built by Daimler-Chrysler. With their German heritage....
Yes, he did get his money back, but there was some hassle over getting both wrist bands back first. Both enty fees were on the same credit car, but Dave's son was way down on the infield when this happened, so we had to locate him first.
Erik
Last edited by UstaB-GS549; 08-04-2007 at 03:35 PM.
08-04-2007, 03:45 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
This is absolutley ! I Know that impalla cause I ran with them in the 01-02 One Lap, they are great drivers and have a safe fast car. I think the guy with Porsche shirt was affraid he was going to get spanked by this big old BOAT!
Sounds like you had more patience than I would have had with the track mananger and owner.
Sorry to hear about this ordeal.
! I Know that impalla cause I ran with them in the 01-02 One Lap, they are great drivers and have a safe fast car. I think the guy with Porsche shirt was affraid he was going to get spanked by this big old BOAT! Sounds like you had more patience than I would have had with the track mananger and owner.
Sorry to hear about this ordeal.
There was a yellow Lambo that was well driven. I wasn't expecting too much as the car looked too pretty.
08-04-2007, 06:31 PM
#8
How many fingers is he holding up there?
Regarding the GingerMan deal, I'm with Aaron - I wouldn't have had the patience you exibited. I tend to be very direct and let a-holes know that they're a-holes.
Thanks for the info. If I run there again, I'll make sure to give "Gary" some "constructive criticism" on his decision-making abilities.
Regarding the GingerMan deal, I'm with Aaron - I wouldn't have had the patience you exibited. I tend to be very direct and let a-holes know that they're a-holes.
Thanks for the info. If I run there again, I'll make sure to give "Gary" some "constructive criticism" on his decision-making abilities.
Last edited by toolman44092; 08-05-2007 at 10:21 AM. Reason: Changed to "IF I run there gain"
08-04-2007, 11:59 PM
#9
So many events so little time...Gingerman is in my tow range but now off my list of possible events.
Event fees are just one of the costs of...actually about 20%. I don't need hassles and some idiot ruining one of my 4-5 yearly events because they don't have common sense and think they are some motorsports guru.
Gingerman...no thanks I'll run on tracks with professional management.
Event fees are just one of the costs of...actually about 20%. I don't need hassles and some idiot ruining one of my 4-5 yearly events because they don't have common sense and think they are some motorsports guru.
Gingerman...no thanks I'll run on tracks with professional management.
08-05-2007, 12:20 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
So many events so little time...Gingerman is in my tow range but now off my list of possible events.
Event fees are just one of the costs of...actually about 20%. I don't need hassles and some idiot ruining one of my 4-5 yearly events because they don't have common sense and think they are some motorsports guru.
Gingerman...no thanks I'll run on tracks with professional management.
Event fees are just one of the costs of...actually about 20%. I don't need hassles and some idiot ruining one of my 4-5 yearly events because they don't have common sense and think they are some motorsports guru.
Gingerman...no thanks I'll run on tracks with professional management.
I wouldn't want to take the chance that they would eject a friend of mine and ruin my day too.
08-05-2007, 11:38 AM
#11
Race Director
They have their cell numbers on the contact page, perhaps calling them and letting them know that we heard about the poor choice they made in this situation and that they are losing buisness because of it, will help better future choices.
http://www.gingermanraceway.com/information
http://www.gingermanraceway.com/information
08-05-2007, 01:22 PM
#12
Drifting
They have their cell numbers on the contact page, perhaps calling them and letting them know that we heard about the poor choice they made in this situation and that they are losing buisness because of it, will help better future choices.
http://www.gingermanraceway.com/information
http://www.gingermanraceway.com/information
08-05-2007, 03:08 PM
#13
Drifting
That's a bummer. I kind of liked that track too. If I were in that position I am pretty certain I would have no issue with telling that guy what I thought about the situation. So hats off to you guys for keeping a cool head.
Maybe we should inform the tire rack of this issue as well. Their name is all over that place. Maybe they would have something to contribute to this conversation as well. I'm sure they would not treat paying customers like that.
Maybe we should inform the tire rack of this issue as well. Their name is all over that place. Maybe they would have something to contribute to this conversation as well. I'm sure they would not treat paying customers like that.
08-05-2007, 03:13 PM
#14
Safety Car
There is a black Impala SS that runs TTC with NASA midwest, he's at all the events. Is that the car? That's absolutely ridiculous. I guess this stock VW and the old Subaru in this picture (taken at Gingerman) ARE sporty enough, however.
I used to go out there all the time but lately I've soured on the track. They're not as flexible with run groups and the surface is sorely in need of repaving. My buddy stopped running there becaue his car is too stiff now that the track is full of bumps and undulations, especially in the back section around turns 9 to 11. I haven't been there at all this year and doubt I'll be back...Grattan is just soooo much better.
I used to go out there all the time but lately I've soured on the track. They're not as flexible with run groups and the surface is sorely in need of repaving. My buddy stopped running there becaue his car is too stiff now that the track is full of bumps and undulations, especially in the back section around turns 9 to 11. I haven't been there at all this year and doubt I'll be back...Grattan is just soooo much better.
08-05-2007, 06:34 PM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
There is a black Impala SS that runs TTC with NASA midwest, he's at all the events. Is that the car? That's absolutely ridiculous. I guess this stock VW and the old Subaru in this picture (taken at Gingerman) ARE sporty enough, however.
I used to go out there all the time but lately I've soured on the track. They're not as flexible with run groups and the surface is sorely in need of repaving. My buddy stopped running there becaue his car is too stiff now that the track is full of bumps and undulations, especially in the back section around turns 9 to 11. I haven't been there at all this year and doubt I'll be back...Grattan is just soooo much better.
I used to go out there all the time but lately I've soured on the track. They're not as flexible with run groups and the surface is sorely in need of repaving. My buddy stopped running there becaue his car is too stiff now that the track is full of bumps and undulations, especially in the back section around turns 9 to 11. I haven't been there at all this year and doubt I'll be back...Grattan is just soooo much better.
I noticed the grooves where the pavement seams are. You really have to pay attention when a tire hooks a groove; especially with wide fronts.
Unfortunately, the dip in turn 11 is right where the car needs to be at the apex. The car is pretty much down on the bump stops there.
Grattan has a dip somewhere in the chicance going up onto the main straight. It doesn't seem to affect the car as much if I remember correctly.
08-05-2007, 09:50 PM
#16
Drifting
We had an Impala SS run with us earlier this year at Gingerman without a problem. We used our own insurance carrier, so I don't know how that affects the story, but nobody said a word to us. I think you will find that the event organizers have a huge say in what is allowed. You should address questions like this to the people setting up an event. In this case, since it was a test and tune, it was all up to Gingerman.
Ken
Ken
08-05-2007, 11:49 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Naples Florida
Posts: 1,001
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Last Thursday night I organized a group of friends and business associates to run the Evening Test and Tune at GingerMan. It's a 2 1/2 hour drive plus the time change so everyone took a vacation day. Our little group was 4 vettes, along with an M roadster, Impala SS and Mistu 3000 GT.
My co-worker with the Impala was registered, paid, suited up and heading to grid to run with our group, when the track manager stopped him and told him he could not run! The reason: His car was too big and heavy and not "sporty enough". (The track manager is wearing his PCA Tee shirt. )
I asked the track manager if he would look at the brakes and a few other things on the Impala and he refused, saying that insurance regulations would not permit the car on track!!!!!!!!!!
This same 94 Impala and driver was the Mid-Priced Sedan winner in the Car & Driver One Lap at least once that I can remember. It is outfitted with Wilwood GN calipers & rotors, (same caliper used on Winston Cup cars running at Watkins Glen) lowered on Eibach springs, Koni adjustables, Hodgkiss sway bars, ZF 6-speed manual, etc, etc, etc.
Dave has run this car at Road America, Watkins Glen, Blackhawk Farms, And GingerMan many times. His lap times have been consistent with experienced drivers running C4 Corvettes on R-compound tires (he runs full depth Michelins). He was really looking forward to running a new 383 engine that recently replaced the aging LT1.
Dave packs up the car and leaves with his son and friend after fighting manger for a refund on his credit card. I talk to track owner (Dan S.) and he refuses to over rule his manger. Dave has been giving manager attitude... yeah, like the manger isn't being a bit of an ***.
The rest of us decided to continue, but a cloud was over the whole evening. Meanwhile the manager has no problem letting a 4 door 280 Mercedes on track, a poorly maintained 3 Series with a driver that can't tell a checker from a black flag. We had to put up with a 911 racecar that seemed to be more of a rolling chicane that anything, as well as a lot of foreign speaking drivers that couldn't drive nor could they point you by. Then he added a fourth run group of these clowns with there superior German cars which cut down on our track time even more. They had to red flag one session because on of these geniuses ignored several black flags.
I know I will never organize another outing at GingerMan, and it's doubtful that I will run there again after this experience. It used to be one of my favorite tracks. Its three days later and I'm still upset.
Going to GingerMan? Call ahead to find out if your car is on the A-list. It may not be "cool" enough to run.
My co-worker with the Impala was registered, paid, suited up and heading to grid to run with our group, when the track manager stopped him and told him he could not run! The reason: His car was too big and heavy and not "sporty enough". (The track manager is wearing his PCA Tee shirt.
)I asked the track manager if he would look at the brakes and a few other things on the Impala and he refused, saying that insurance regulations would not permit the car on track!!!!!!!!!!
This same 94 Impala and driver was the Mid-Priced Sedan winner in the Car & Driver One Lap at least once that I can remember. It is outfitted with Wilwood GN calipers & rotors, (same caliper used on Winston Cup cars running at Watkins Glen) lowered on Eibach springs, Koni adjustables, Hodgkiss sway bars, ZF 6-speed manual, etc, etc, etc.
Dave has run this car at Road America, Watkins Glen, Blackhawk Farms, And GingerMan many times. His lap times have been consistent with experienced drivers running C4 Corvettes on R-compound tires (he runs full depth Michelins). He was really looking forward to running a new 383 engine that recently replaced the aging LT1.
Dave packs up the car and leaves with his son and friend after fighting manger for a refund on his credit card. I talk to track owner (Dan S.) and he refuses to over rule his manger. Dave has been giving manager attitude... yeah, like the manger isn't being a bit of an ***.
The rest of us decided to continue, but a cloud was over the whole evening. Meanwhile the manager has no problem letting a 4 door 280 Mercedes on track, a poorly maintained 3 Series with a driver that can't tell a checker from a black flag. We had to put up with a 911 racecar that seemed to be more of a rolling chicane that anything, as well as a lot of foreign speaking drivers that couldn't drive nor could they point you by. Then he added a fourth run group of these clowns with there superior German cars which cut down on our track time even more. They had to red flag one session because on of these geniuses ignored several black flags.
I know I will never organize another outing at GingerMan, and it's doubtful that I will run there again after this experience. It used to be one of my favorite tracks. Its three days later and I'm still upset.
Going to GingerMan? Call ahead to find out if your car is on the A-list. It may not be "cool" enough to run.
08-06-2007, 07:47 AM
#18
Safety Car
That's a bummer. I kind of liked that track too. If I were in that position I am pretty certain I would have no issue with telling that guy what I thought about the situation. So hats off to you guys for keeping a cool head.
Maybe we should inform the tire rack of this issue as well. Their name is all over that place. Maybe they would have something to contribute to this conversation as well. I'm sure they would not treat paying customers like that.
Maybe we should inform the tire rack of this issue as well. Their name is all over that place. Maybe they would have something to contribute to this conversation as well. I'm sure they would not treat paying customers like that.
08-06-2007, 10:54 AM
#19
Drifting
08-06-2007, 11:35 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
Impala's are great. I've seen them run at WGI. With a good driver, they run very respectable times. Some guys run aftermarket seats, but the C5 also needs aftermarket seats to keep you planted.
Did anyone do a professional drivers school, like Skip B? They run you around in a 9 passenger ford van just as fast as an intermediate driver in a sports car..
The Impala's also run F-stock in SCCA.
With the full frame, they are solid.
Did anyone do a professional drivers school, like Skip B? They run you around in a 9 passenger ford van just as fast as an intermediate driver in a sports car..
The Impala's also run F-stock in SCCA.
With the full frame, they are solid.