Two Champcar races cancelled
08-31-2007, 12:36 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Well, the China date I never thought had a chance. CCWS TV coverage isn't helping either. The race in Belgium looked either like it was very, VERY, dim, or the cameras weren't quite as good as my camcorder.
Have a good one,
Mike
Have a good one,
Mike
08-31-2007, 02:17 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
08-31-2007, 03:21 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Not that much of a surprise. The shots of the crowds at most of the races show half full grand stands. Even the Indy cars are not drawing capacity crowds.
One thing that people don't always look at is that you are trying to sell this series to an American audience, and there are only two American born drivers in Champ car. Alex Figge and Graham Rahal are the only two American born drivers. When most of us think about Indy cars you think of the Unsers, Dan Gurney, Foyt, Mears, Andretti, etc. racing against each other. Hard to get people to put out their hard earned money to watch a series with drivers they have never heard of.
They need to combine the two series so maybe we can have some good open wheel racing in the country.
Larry
One thing that people don't always look at is that you are trying to sell this series to an American audience, and there are only two American born drivers in Champ car. Alex Figge and Graham Rahal are the only two American born drivers. When most of us think about Indy cars you think of the Unsers, Dan Gurney, Foyt, Mears, Andretti, etc. racing against each other. Hard to get people to put out their hard earned money to watch a series with drivers they have never heard of.
They need to combine the two series so maybe we can have some good open wheel racing in the country.
Larry
08-31-2007, 06:08 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
ALMS was a bigger draw at Road America than CCWS. The TV rating for the CCWS Zolder race was .07. The Phoenix race cancellation notice probably reached a larger audience than the TV coverage.
09-01-2007, 12:37 AM
#8
Tech Contributor
Larry has an excellent point - but I think the "gap" between the Champ Car ( or IRL, or GP1, or F1 ) and the American public goes much deeper than nationality or name recognition.
Our current generation of American motor racing fans (and I am speaking GENERALLY now!) do not seem to appreciate formula cars. They do not appreciate them, they do not understand them, nor do they want to understand them. For some reason, the American racing fan does not "relate" to that level of technology, sophistication, and capability in the way that the European audience does.
And, even when some apparent progress is made, as in bringing F1 to Indy, then we have a giant fiasco between Michelin, the constructors, and the FIA, and our (already skeptical) audience is treated to a parade of 6 cars! If I were wondering about road racing or formula cars, that would have made up my mind! And then there was Scott Speed, the Great American Hope . . . . .
We were absolutely thrilled 3 years ago, when big-time, professional formula car racing returned to Watkins Glen, after about a 25 year absence. (Unfortunately, it took the closing of the oval at Nazareth Speedway to bring this about.) In any event, we were not disappointed - the IRL put on an incredible show, shattering the previous, all-time lap record by around 10 seconds!
And again this past June, a new lap record was being posted almost by the minute during qualifying. It was absolutely thrilling stuff! Tickets were fairly inexpensive, the weather was beautiful all three days, the drivers were signing autographs when they were not driving, garage passes allowed the public to see all the cars "close-up", vendors were selling everything from IRL tee-shirts to motor homes; but where were the fans? Well, several thousand of us were there - grandstands one-half full.
Where were the rest? Waiting for the NASCAR race!
Ed
Our current generation of American motor racing fans (and I am speaking GENERALLY now!) do not seem to appreciate formula cars. They do not appreciate them, they do not understand them, nor do they want to understand them. For some reason, the American racing fan does not "relate" to that level of technology, sophistication, and capability in the way that the European audience does.
And, even when some apparent progress is made, as in bringing F1 to Indy, then we have a giant fiasco between Michelin, the constructors, and the FIA, and our (already skeptical) audience is treated to a parade of 6 cars! If I were wondering about road racing or formula cars, that would have made up my mind! And then there was Scott Speed, the Great American Hope . . . . .
We were absolutely thrilled 3 years ago, when big-time, professional formula car racing returned to Watkins Glen, after about a 25 year absence. (Unfortunately, it took the closing of the oval at Nazareth Speedway to bring this about.) In any event, we were not disappointed - the IRL put on an incredible show, shattering the previous, all-time lap record by around 10 seconds!
And again this past June, a new lap record was being posted almost by the minute during qualifying. It was absolutely thrilling stuff! Tickets were fairly inexpensive, the weather was beautiful all three days, the drivers were signing autographs when they were not driving, garage passes allowed the public to see all the cars "close-up", vendors were selling everything from IRL tee-shirts to motor homes; but where were the fans? Well, several thousand of us were there - grandstands one-half full.
Where were the rest? Waiting for the NASCAR race!
Ed
09-01-2007, 10:22 AM
#9
Pro
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember the big crowds at the Glen for the F1 races in the 70's. Those were fantastic events. I still have the dash plaques up on the wall in my bar.
Where ar the rest? They're waiting for Nascar or WWF to come on tv, doesn't matter which, they're interchangable.
Where ar the rest? They're waiting for Nascar or WWF to come on tv, doesn't matter which, they're interchangable.
09-02-2007, 07:56 PM
#10
Pro
Member Since: Jul 2001
Location: Bradenton FL FL
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a shame as I can't stand Tony George, but it looks like the IRL may end up as the survivor, unless Champ Car does something impressive.
Indy (type) cars are dead. Spec cars, spec engines, spec tires, spec brakes, spec shocks, zero innovation. Who cares anymore?
09-02-2007, 08:33 PM
#12
Instructor
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Acworth Georgia
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or maybe the Wrestling style plot lines and characters?
09-02-2007, 08:51 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Bedford NH
Posts: 5,708
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Cruise-In II Veteran
Agreed, both are sad, but there are different engines at least in NASCAR. What is Champ car versus IRL these days? Tony George has killed "Indy cars" with the stupid IRL versus CART now "Champ Car" pissing contest. What happened to the Penske's with pushrod engines, or the Lotus with Pratt and Whitney turbines? What has happened is boring "made for TV" crap.
09-02-2007, 09:00 PM
#14
Instructor
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Acworth Georgia
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is Champ car versus IRL these days? Tony George has killed "Indy cars" with the stupid IRL versus CART now "Champ Car" pissing contest. What happened to the Penske's with pushrod engines, or the Lotus with Pratt and Whitney turbines? What has happened is boring "made for TV" crap.
09-02-2007, 09:46 PM
#15
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Posts: 30,596
Received 238 Likes
on
166 Posts
Tony's 'Vision'
http://www.indycar.com/news/story.php?story_id=9686
In Racecar Engineering he said they may not be opened wheeled cars at all.
there's forum feedback so you can tell them what you think
http://www.indycar.com/news/talkback...&story_id=9686
http://www.indycar.com/news/story.php?story_id=9686
Change text size:Saturday, August 11, 2007
Art Center College students present far-reaching concepts
By Dave Lewandowski
indycar.com
PASADENA, Calif. – Shea Shatz paced behind a projection screen, animatedly reviewing notecards for his "Heroes of Indy" presentation while the assembly focused on the entertaining "Indy Addiction" program.
It was Super Thursday at the Art Center College of Design – an aptly-named day when Indy Racing League and Honda Performance Development officials, faculty and fellow students reviewed and discussed in an open forum the term projects of four trans-disciplinary teams that three months ago were challenged to imagine the future of the IndyCar Series.
Dubbed Indy 2011, the Funded Educational Project gave students representing the Transportation, Product, Entertainment and Environmental Design departments the challenge to design a hallmark IndyCar Series car and the opportunity to develop entertainment facets relating to motorsports (from crew gear to transporters and stages).
To immerse themselves in IndyCar Series culture, entertainment and technology, the students attended the 91st Indianapolis 500 in May.
Click it: Video highlights of the Art Center College of Design students' presentations http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/vi...ayer.php?v=746
"It was just an intense experience, and so many of them came back and said, 'I had no idea how intense that was. I'm a fan from here on out,' '' said Stewart Reed, chair of the Transportation Design department. "That propelled them with the notion that they could help people experience this that didn't gravitate toward motorsports.
"The automobile is mystical, and race cars are the most pure of the form. Single-seater, open-wheel, minimalistic. It's the fighter plane on wheels. For them, it was the challenge of taking this and going beyond what's sitting in the studio (IndyCar Series show car) and make something that is the extension of the entertainment process but something truly advanced."
Each of the four team projects accomplished the goal. Shatz's five-member team drew a parallel between artist-created superheroes and IndyCar Series drivers, transferring the theme across entertainment experiences at racetracks to car concepts that blend the history of the Indianapolis 500 with futuristic body and wing designs to a driver safety suit that is an extension of the chassis.
The project was designed without boundaries, and every multimedia presentation stretched the limit of current engineering and design standards.
The team termed "Athlete and Machine" envisioned blimps with video screens on the sides floating above venues and delivering drivers to their cars on a frontstretch stage. Among the "Dynamic Era of Motorsports" team's concepts was a clear-sided transporter displaying the car that transforms into a stage. The "Indy Addiction" group featured a video game in which contestants could be a virtual participant in an actual race.
The IndyCar Series delegation left Southern California with a treasure-trove of "gems" to digest and present to constituents.
"We will kick off at the Indy 500 this coming year the centennial era celebration, which is 2009, '10 and '11," said Terry Angstadt, president of the commercial division of the Indy Racing League. "The timing of this is just ideal to use as the background and some of the content ideas for that future."
Angstadt was joined by Indy Racing League founder and CEO Tony George, Honda Performance Development president Robert Clarke, and Dave Marek, chief designer of Honda R&D America, in extolling the passion and depth of the projects. They also were unified in seeing the potential of a conglomeration of car concepts that could evolve into the IndyCar of 2011.
"There could be the revolution, and I think some of these (designs) represent that," Angstadt said. "We strongly feel we have a great racing product right now, and until we get to 2011 we want to continue. But it's a very exciting time for us."
Said Clarke, an engineer whose company supplies the Honda Indy V-8 engines fueled by 100 percent fuel-grade ethanol to the IndyCar Series: "There were no pre-conceived solutions. I think we got a lot of interesting, thought-provoking ideas, and that's exactly what we wanted. To see people looking at these pieces of artwork and talking about the possibilities, to me the project accomplished what it was designed to do.
"If you look at it as a whole, you can pick bits and pieces from things and you actually can build a complete image. These designers are more stylists than engineers, so that's an element that probably is the next step. We need to take it and evolve it into something we can actually build, is safe and practical. Style is the first thing you see; it's you're first emotion. Those first impressions are critical in life; we deal with them every day. Seeing a car that evokes some passion and excitement is paramount. You could have the coolest piece of engineering, but unless it gives you some sense of excitement and something that you really want to watch this thing compete you totally lost it.
"All racing cars have evolved over time. They've become more pieces of engineering than design. That's why I think it's critical to bring back the design element. Without the design you can't win, but you can't have one (design and engineering) without the other."
Visuals of the Indy 2011 project will be made available at a future date.
More thoughts to digest over the next few months.
Art Center College students present far-reaching concepts
By Dave Lewandowski
indycar.com
PASADENA, Calif. – Shea Shatz paced behind a projection screen, animatedly reviewing notecards for his "Heroes of Indy" presentation while the assembly focused on the entertaining "Indy Addiction" program.
It was Super Thursday at the Art Center College of Design – an aptly-named day when Indy Racing League and Honda Performance Development officials, faculty and fellow students reviewed and discussed in an open forum the term projects of four trans-disciplinary teams that three months ago were challenged to imagine the future of the IndyCar Series.
Dubbed Indy 2011, the Funded Educational Project gave students representing the Transportation, Product, Entertainment and Environmental Design departments the challenge to design a hallmark IndyCar Series car and the opportunity to develop entertainment facets relating to motorsports (from crew gear to transporters and stages).
To immerse themselves in IndyCar Series culture, entertainment and technology, the students attended the 91st Indianapolis 500 in May.
Click it: Video highlights of the Art Center College of Design students' presentations http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/vi...ayer.php?v=746
"It was just an intense experience, and so many of them came back and said, 'I had no idea how intense that was. I'm a fan from here on out,' '' said Stewart Reed, chair of the Transportation Design department. "That propelled them with the notion that they could help people experience this that didn't gravitate toward motorsports.
"The automobile is mystical, and race cars are the most pure of the form. Single-seater, open-wheel, minimalistic. It's the fighter plane on wheels. For them, it was the challenge of taking this and going beyond what's sitting in the studio (IndyCar Series show car) and make something that is the extension of the entertainment process but something truly advanced."
Each of the four team projects accomplished the goal. Shatz's five-member team drew a parallel between artist-created superheroes and IndyCar Series drivers, transferring the theme across entertainment experiences at racetracks to car concepts that blend the history of the Indianapolis 500 with futuristic body and wing designs to a driver safety suit that is an extension of the chassis.
The project was designed without boundaries, and every multimedia presentation stretched the limit of current engineering and design standards.
The team termed "Athlete and Machine" envisioned blimps with video screens on the sides floating above venues and delivering drivers to their cars on a frontstretch stage. Among the "Dynamic Era of Motorsports" team's concepts was a clear-sided transporter displaying the car that transforms into a stage. The "Indy Addiction" group featured a video game in which contestants could be a virtual participant in an actual race.
The IndyCar Series delegation left Southern California with a treasure-trove of "gems" to digest and present to constituents.
"We will kick off at the Indy 500 this coming year the centennial era celebration, which is 2009, '10 and '11," said Terry Angstadt, president of the commercial division of the Indy Racing League. "The timing of this is just ideal to use as the background and some of the content ideas for that future."
Angstadt was joined by Indy Racing League founder and CEO Tony George, Honda Performance Development president Robert Clarke, and Dave Marek, chief designer of Honda R&D America, in extolling the passion and depth of the projects. They also were unified in seeing the potential of a conglomeration of car concepts that could evolve into the IndyCar of 2011.
"There could be the revolution, and I think some of these (designs) represent that," Angstadt said. "We strongly feel we have a great racing product right now, and until we get to 2011 we want to continue. But it's a very exciting time for us."
Said Clarke, an engineer whose company supplies the Honda Indy V-8 engines fueled by 100 percent fuel-grade ethanol to the IndyCar Series: "There were no pre-conceived solutions. I think we got a lot of interesting, thought-provoking ideas, and that's exactly what we wanted. To see people looking at these pieces of artwork and talking about the possibilities, to me the project accomplished what it was designed to do.
"If you look at it as a whole, you can pick bits and pieces from things and you actually can build a complete image. These designers are more stylists than engineers, so that's an element that probably is the next step. We need to take it and evolve it into something we can actually build, is safe and practical. Style is the first thing you see; it's you're first emotion. Those first impressions are critical in life; we deal with them every day. Seeing a car that evokes some passion and excitement is paramount. You could have the coolest piece of engineering, but unless it gives you some sense of excitement and something that you really want to watch this thing compete you totally lost it.
"All racing cars have evolved over time. They've become more pieces of engineering than design. That's why I think it's critical to bring back the design element. Without the design you can't win, but you can't have one (design and engineering) without the other."
Visuals of the Indy 2011 project will be made available at a future date.
More thoughts to digest over the next few months.
there's forum feedback so you can tell them what you think
http://www.indycar.com/news/talkback...&story_id=9686
09-03-2007, 12:30 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
We have always been able to kill off good series in this country. The Trans-Am, Can-Am, F5000 and the original IMSA series. What is really amazing is to look at pictures of the crowds at road races back in the 60's and 70's, even SCCA National events pulled in good crowds.
Promotion is everything, and it's just too bad the NASCAR has done a better job of it. When I was racing with the SCCA in the 80's, I was also writting a weekly racing column for a Bay Area newspaper. It was amazing how much material NASCAR would send me. On the opposite side, CART and the SCCA would only send me something when a race was coming up.
If look back at some of the old stories you will find that at some Grand Prix events the teams would have an extra car for a guest driver. Imagine the response they would have had at a F1 race at Indy if they would have stuck Stewart or Gordan into a car for the weekend.
You can sell "names" to the public. Even the NBA now using the star players to promote games rather than the teams. Most of our road racing series seem to think that they can just stick some cars out on the track and people will show up, it just doesn't work that way any more.
Larry
Promotion is everything, and it's just too bad the NASCAR has done a better job of it. When I was racing with the SCCA in the 80's, I was also writting a weekly racing column for a Bay Area newspaper. It was amazing how much material NASCAR would send me. On the opposite side, CART and the SCCA would only send me something when a race was coming up.
If look back at some of the old stories you will find that at some Grand Prix events the teams would have an extra car for a guest driver. Imagine the response they would have had at a F1 race at Indy if they would have stuck Stewart or Gordan into a car for the weekend.
You can sell "names" to the public. Even the NBA now using the star players to promote games rather than the teams. Most of our road racing series seem to think that they can just stick some cars out on the track and people will show up, it just doesn't work that way any more.
Larry
09-03-2007, 02:45 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
CART, USAC, etc. have *never* promoted their products enough, other than the Indy 500. The cachet of Indy just carried them through the rest of the season, and once that flower faded they (CART, IRL, CCWS, whichever) just fell on their face. The fact that NASCAR promoted their product successfully is not "just too bad."
Have a good one,
Mike
09-03-2007, 03:43 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
I don't think that statement is quite fair. It implies that if NASCAR hadn't gotten there first that other forms of racing would be much better off.
CART, USAC, etc. have *never* promoted their products enough, other than the Indy 500. The cachet of Indy just carried them through the rest of the season, and once that flower faded they (CART, IRL, CCWS, whichever) just fell on their face. The fact that NASCAR promoted their product successfully is not "just too bad."
Have a good one,
Mike
CART, USAC, etc. have *never* promoted their products enough, other than the Indy 500. The cachet of Indy just carried them through the rest of the season, and once that flower faded they (CART, IRL, CCWS, whichever) just fell on their face. The fact that NASCAR promoted their product successfully is not "just too bad."
Have a good one,
Mike
Bad choice of words on my part. Growing up a road racing fan I just wish that one of the road racing based series would have promoted itself as well as NASCAR has done.
Larry
I second that!