the blur

what's involved in getting an SCCA license?
I have ~100 track days, feeling pretty comfortable out there.
I may have access to a fully prepped T2 for the license school.

what else???
I'm sure I won't be competitive, cause I prolly s^ch compared to experienced racers, but it might be fun anyway... just the local level stuff....

or is NASA a better idea??

Tintin

Nasa or SCCA? Depends...
If you want to continue beyond amateur racing then sooner or later you need an FIA affiliated license which NASA does not have the authority to grant. The SCCA has way more rules than NASA (like a stupendous number) but that can be a good thing as it prevents the blatant cheating that happens in NASA, particularily in the NorCal region. On the other hand SCCA restricts the car make and model that you can run in their races as well as the prep levels. They really should classify every car sold in the USA that has a manual transmission but they don't , so if you want to run a showroom stock car like a Mustang GT, you have to go to NASA. TI and T2 are not even close to showroom stock for the naysayers, there are lots of parts that are substituted.

You need to take a pro school (maybe 2 , it used to be 2...) and you need to run some regionals without wrecking too badly and the SCCA will give you a license. NASA will grant licenses to people who have little or no time with an instructor , you just have to go through the groups 1-4 and get licensed. It is cheaper to race with NASA because of this and they have no age limit on Showroom Stock cars...

Personally, I have raced with both and SCCA is great but they are a bunch of lawyers with unlimited time to protest. NASA is closer to European racing in that if you run with them and you are slow to yield to faster cars, your car will get marked up a bit. Which is as it should be, you are racing after all, not knitting or cutting ladies' hair.

You will find that if you have 100 days on track that you will have more experience than about 99% of the regional racers in either group so you will probably be shocked at how bad everyone is..

You will find that running amateur races with the SCCA at the National level costs about the same as running a pro series, especially if you are running T1 or T2. The cars are more sophisticated in WC but you will be able to find sponsors with cunning and luck. I took two years of marketing at a local college in the evenings when I decided to go racing and every race I ever did was sponsored including my first regional.

With 100 days behind you , you will also be shocked at how bad the pros are as well. My first pro race, which was only my 3rd race ever was a Firehawk Endurance 3 hour race almost 20 years ago and when I turned the car over to my co-driver after 2 hours it was in 3rd place. The only guys ahead of me were Rick Bye and a guy who went on to great success - Ron Fellows... I never beat him in 5 years of trying. Good guy though, I always liked him just the same.

racerjon1

The track days will be great because when you do a driver's school you will get to learn to race and not to drive. (Usually, I spend SCCA schools teaching students about apexes, lines and braking points along with traffic managment. Though it's getting better as the popularity and availability of track days goes up.

To get the SCCA license here is the deal.

1) Go to a "pro" school with SCCA licensing ability - Skip Barber or the like. Do a three day school and voila' SCCA license.

2) Take that T2 car to two, or one "double" SCCA drivers school. Entry will be cheaper than the "pro" school but you have to provide car, suit, gear etc. When you boil it down it's probably close to the same price.

Of the two I think going to an SCCA drivers school is still a smart idea - even if you do a pro school because you will get to see firsthand the SCCA procedures and I think it makes it easier once you start SCCA racing.

To pass the SCCA school - be steady, don't make mistakes, get all your time in. Instructors are National-level SCCA drivers and the criteria for passing is "If you would feel safe racing with them then sign them off" I have heard the key to SCCA school - and kind of agree - is "don't get noticed."

As far as which is better, SCCA or NASA, that's a little tougher. I believe that SCCA is for drivers, and NASA is for cars. (Allow me to explain before clicking the "reply" button please) SCCA sets up classes, restricts the prep, and essentially says, if you want to race here it is. Because the rulesets are restricted, you get the car that fits and go race it. NASA in their quest to class everything ends up with so many choices of what works or might work or could work.. And I think the cars are more of a criteria than the drivers.

***this isn't to say that NASA drivers are bad*** I have a national championship trophy on mty shelf, you will never hear me put down Popp, etc.. But I do think that NASA is more about giving you a place to race with your car, and trying to make it competitive than SCCA is.

I think that SCCA and NASA both have their good and bad parts. SCCA Buracacy is nutty, but some of NASA's dictatorship-like hierarchy is worse. SCCA is restrictive, but at the same time NASA has tried to so much NOT like the SCCA they have thrown out stuff that works very well - learned over 60 years of sanctioning motorsports. At NASA nationals last year I said "They have thrown the baby out with the bathwater."

Go to events, talk to the people that organize it, the competitors, see which one you feel more at home in, then choose.

Jon K

davidfarmer

One important note to remember. Unless you are planning on actually racing regularly, the license will expire every year. In other words, even though I've had SCCA and SCCA Pro credentials, since I don't do 3 races a year with them these days, I technically have to "start over" every year. In other words, go back to their schools again OR beg your divisional licensing chair for a waiver.

NASA , on the other hand, honors your license for as long as you keep paying your dues. For getting started, or just casual racing, this makes more sense for many.

There is really no reason you would ever need an FIA license. SCCA Pro has their own licenes, as does Rolex etc. If you ultimately need FIA credentials, you can get them when the time comes.

wtknght1

Also, if you have done plenty of DE stuff (like I had), then you could just take 1 SCCA school and request a waiver of the 2d and go at it.

To give you a full idea of the timelines involved...
I bought my Z06 in Sep 2000.
Did the min safety preps for T1 and took the school in October I think.
Got thru the school with no problems and was issued a "Novice Permit."
Did a few regional races between Nov and January with no problems and got the regional license.
Did 4 regional races and applied for my National license around March 01.
Did my first National race in April 01...and 3 more during the year and went to the runoffs in 2001.

It's a fairly quick process, but it's made easier if you have lots of track experience.

And if you're interested, I am selling my T1 Z06!!

Tintin

My meaning is a license from a group that is sanctioned by the FIA as opposed to a license from a group of open trackers...
Your NASA license is useless as experience for things like vintage racing with any of the major groups or running races in Canada for example...
Only licenses issued through the national ASN are good for events sanctioned by ACCUS members in the US or FIA members in other countries. If you want to pay for your racing, NASA is a good deal. If you want others to pay for it, stick to a ASN member organization...

I believe that SCCA is for drivers, and NASA is for cars.

There is an interesting comment.. the SCCA so restricts the models it sanctions that the races become single marque series which although they do reward the drivers, it becomes very tedious to watch and participate . If you are not a brilliant qualifier, there is no reason to run the race from 10th spot - you cannot win without a major catastrophe in front of you. If you race to lose , that is ok..

Run what you can afford to run. SCCA T1 will cost a fair amount of money I would think. If you use a C6 I would guess that 8 races would be at least $100K with the cost of the equipment. To keep winning you would need a new car every year (check the HP increase for 08). In NASA you can run AS for probably $20K including the car..

Mark_Milner

I have to disagree a bit. You should run the very best car for whatever class you can afford to run.

For example, if you can afford a really big budget, run a great Corvette in T1.

If you can only afford to run half that, run the very best Spec Racer or whatever.

If you can only afford about half that, run the very best F500 you can get.

Run the very best for the class you can get into, never a midrange car in a faster class.

the blur

so basically I can get my license... I have 100 HPDE days, and a Spring Mountain 3 day school paper hanging in my garage from years ago.

Then I guess I have to decide what to run?
chop up my C4, or buy a T2.
NASA sounds easier, and cheaper..

I did a NASA time trial this season, and the instructor told me I was very smooth.... and he signed me off after 1 session.

I guess the decission is what class and $$$$$$$

rgs

Back to your original question. I'm an SCCA corner worker and have worked every kind of event from CART, NASCAR, SCCA, IMSA, GRAN AM, AMA, CRA, SVRA, etc for the past 25 years. (I haven't worked a NASA event, but have attended one as as a crew chief)

SCCA has a layered racing license system, like the race worker system. You start out with a novice permit to attend drivers schools (2 required) and after signing off, regional races. Assuming you don't screw up, with the sign off of the chief steward and chief instructor, your novice permit is upgraded to a regional license. With the regional license, you are permitted to participate in SCCA regional races and events. After competing in a minimum of 4 regional races, you can request an upgrade to a national license. This is not automatic.

As others have explained, an SCCA driver's school is intended to teach a driver the rules of the road, race procedures, and how to handle your car on track and in traffic. My understanding of NASA from a friend who runs a Mustang with them, (and those who participate in NASA please chime in to correct me), they don't start out "racing" like SCCA does. You actually start out with track time. Multiple cars on track but no actual racing, no passing in turns, point by's only, etc.

If you want to drive your car fast on a race track, NASA is easier to start with. If you want to race door to door, go the route of SCCA.

NJCRUISER

Blur,
I see you are from NY. SCCA club racing has great participation in the Northeast division. You are pretty much guaranteed large competitive fields in Touring 1 or 2. I would seriously look around to see what's available in NASA in your area. Something tells me you won't find the number of cars in class with NASA that you will with SCCA. (not in door to door anyway)

Beyond this, they both have their problems. Just race. BTW, a T2 F-body(SCCA) can become an american Iron(NASA) car quite easily!

the blur

So how does NASA class the C4 and C5?
I can't find reference to that on the NASA pro site.

It seems many of us here can get a license. I guess it's just when you want to go door to door... and stop sticking the finger out the window.


(The SCCA T1 class are no longer amatures, and that's why I would consider NASA over SCCA)

rgs

To clarify this statement for those not in the know, I assume you mean that the amateur club racing T1 class is dominated by drivers from the Pro Racing World Challenge T1 class. Where better to learn how to drive than with some professional racers?

ryan0

what?

BuckeyeZ06

Huh?

Let's look at the 2007 Run Offs entry list:

Lance Knupp (little pro experience, 99% amatuer racing)
Chris Ingle (ditto)
Andrew Aquilante (2-3 Grand Am races, 99% amatuer racing)
David Pintaric (not good enough for pro)
Jim Lynch (no pro racing)
Phil Croyle (same as Lance)
Jerry Onks (auto cross only previous experience)
Mike McKinley (same as Lance)
Mike Solley (some pro experience)
Al Longtin (some Pro Mazda experience)

Now IN THE PAST John Heinricy and Scotty White dominated the class, and both of them (along with Cindi Lux) have substantial pro experience, but neither are in T1 at this time.

T1, along with most other SCCA national classes, are great "drivers" classes.

Gatorac

I just got my SCCA license last November. It's not that difficult.

Here's some information on the steps required. http://scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=38

I went to an SCCA school at Sebring. I've had lots of track time there so it made sense for me. My instructor told me at the end of the 2nd day that I did not need a second school and he would sign me off if I felt comfortable. This may be the case with you as well with your track experience. Once you finish 2 regional races, you send in for your Regional license.

They focus on the flags. During the on track time they will throw all sorts of scenarios at you.

You will need to bring a race prepped car or rent one. I was going to rent an SRF ($2400) but I ended up buying one before the school. I did have a CSR pit for me so I would not have to worry about the car. You don't have much time in between track and class time to fiddle with a car.

Now that I have my license, I'm not that interested in going racing. The track time at a typical SCCA weekend is far less then a OT event like Chin. Most of your time is spent waiting. I have more fun meeting up with my friends at an OT event.

wtknght1

Nope. My car is an 01 (although with some upgraded parts) and still one of the fastest rides in the country. I had 6 National wins this year with it...the most I've ever had. T1 is, and will remain, very competitive with whatever legal car you have.

rasrboy

I have to agree with Chris. He has a great ride that has treated him well and has had alot of wins. I have an 03 Legal Z06 with a 2 1/2 year old TIRED motor and I am still competitive with it. I change the oil every race and trans and diff every 3 races. Rotors and pads I can get 2-3 races out of pending on the tracks.

I am no pro by any means either, I grew up autocrossing my dads old 66 Corvette and playing in Karts when I was little. This is my first year in SCCA running wheel to wheel and had 7 starts,7 poles,7 wins and 1 track record.

Come on down and join us in T1.

Aaron Quine
Kumho Tire (Motorsports)
#21 2003 Z06 Corvette
RSIG,RAPID,FALLSWAY,KUMHO TIRE

P.S. I am however having a blast and making alot of new friends and that is what it is mostly all about.

rgs

I shouldn't have tried to expound or explain someone else's post. My mistake. I was trying to point out to those who might not be familiar with SCCA Pro racing versus SCCA Club racing that there is a difference and not to infer by 'the blur's' post that there isn't an amateur class anymore.

AU N EGL

NASA uses a HP/Wt calculation for class determination.
ST1 => 5.5:1
ST2 => 8.7:1

Plus some additional modifiers for equipment. NASA ST/SU forum & Rules

NASA for the most part C4s and C5s are in ST2 ( Super Touring 2) Some C4s in very very stock condition might race in PTA ( Performance Touring A) .

Super Unlimited is 5.49:1 and less

A SCCA T1 prepped Corvette would be in NASA ST2.


Dont be fooled, racing is not inexpensive at any level. The NASA ST classes are just as expensive as SCCA T1. Top 10% Spec Miata in SCCA or NASA is still a lot of money.

the blur

Heinracy and white are not amatures by any means. especially with the unlimited budget, and new tires every event. that was when I was following T1. But were regressing from the original point.

It looks like $$$$$ and a prepped car are all that's needed,... and time...

maybe one day...