Not good news for GM, GM racing or Corvettes.
03-04-2008, 02:21 PM
#161
Besides.. Where are the military loving Republicans now? A large percentage of our countries homeless are Vietnam Veterans. That's why I fear for the welfare of our soldiers returning from Iraq with severe injuries and PTSD. Will our government follow through and care for them or just discard them once they're used up because it doesn't make sense economically?
Again, against the war and those who took us to war and not the military. There is a difference, but the Republicans don't want you to believe that.
Last edited by xsiveone; 03-04-2008 at 02:23 PM.
03-04-2008, 02:27 PM
#162
Iraq, IMO, is/was a much mroe palatable country to attack. There are issues with Suadi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Iran and several other Middle East and Persian countries. Also in the Philipines and a growing Muslim issue in South America.
Iraq DID sponsor and support terrorist. Our actions following Sept 11 were not exclusively a reaction to those attacks, but a response to decades of terrorism. In Iraq the perpetrator of the Achille Laurel (sp) were found, so the concept of Iraq not being in the terrorism business is inaccurate (I know you didn't say that, but many people do).
I also think that future actions are likely in varying forms against many other countries, and how those countries cooperate or not will determine what we do. This "war" ain't close to over.
You make an interesting point about Bin Ladin wanting us in Iraq. He has stated he wants to wage an economic war on the U.S.; maybe this IS his plan.
Nevertheless terrorism needs to be addressed in some fashion. "Fortress America" will not work. We don't want to be inconvenienced, and the economic costs of a nationwide lock-down would likely be greater than what we are experiencing today (again, just my opinion). Also, if you think the cost of Iraq is great, the economic and personal loss of a small nuke in NYC, Chicago, LA, Dallas of Miami would make it small in comparison.
Iraq DID sponsor and support terrorist. Our actions following Sept 11 were not exclusively a reaction to those attacks, but a response to decades of terrorism. In Iraq the perpetrator of the Achille Laurel (sp) were found, so the concept of Iraq not being in the terrorism business is inaccurate (I know you didn't say that, but many people do).
I also think that future actions are likely in varying forms against many other countries, and how those countries cooperate or not will determine what we do. This "war" ain't close to over.
You make an interesting point about Bin Ladin wanting us in Iraq. He has stated he wants to wage an economic war on the U.S.; maybe this IS his plan.
Nevertheless terrorism needs to be addressed in some fashion. "Fortress America" will not work. We don't want to be inconvenienced, and the economic costs of a nationwide lock-down would likely be greater than what we are experiencing today (again, just my opinion). Also, if you think the cost of Iraq is great, the economic and personal loss of a small nuke in NYC, Chicago, LA, Dallas of Miami would make it small in comparison.
03-04-2008, 02:43 PM
#163
Melting Slicks
We should be going after those in charge of attacking us and not bombing or invading countries. We're not at war with Iraq and that's why I have a problem with being there. It was inviduals that attacked us, not countries. If we continue to bomb countries, we're just going to **** more people off.
And, Germany didn't directly attack us in 1941 either...the Japanese did. So why did we declare war on Germany? BIG PICTURE man...big picture.
And we are going after individuals too. Look how many of the "most wanted terrorists" that we've found, killed, brought to justice. Here are a few quick searches...there are bunches!!!!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/31/alqaeda.death/
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2...14/324765.html
03-04-2008, 02:48 PM
#164
Racer
Member Since: Jan 2004
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We're playing right into the hands of Bin Laden. We had him on the ropes in Afghanistan and then we went into Iraq. His goal was to drag us into a war in the Middle East and bleed our economy dry. They are used to long, drawn out wars so it's nothing new for them. As long as the US is in Iraq, Bin Laden will never be short on recruits for his cause.[/QUOTE]
1. Since 9-11 we have had military actions in Afghanistan. As of today we still have military operations in Afghanistan. That did not change because of the liberation of Iraq.
2. Punishing the successful in America with redistribution of wealth (higher disproportionate taxes on the wealthy), Anti business legislation, high energy costs (due to lack of exploration, no refineries, no nuclear power, Carbon tax etc), Socialized medicine, Multi trillion dollar war on poverty, Illegal immigration out of control will bleed our economy dry, not military action to keep us and our allies free.
3. Compassion for our fellow americans should not be defined by how many entitlement programs we can create to keep them trapped in poverty and illegitimacy but by how many opportunities we can create to lift them permanently from government dependancy. Freedom is the cornerstone of compassion.
We're playing right into the hands of Bin Laden. We had him on the ropes in Afghanistan and then we went into Iraq. His goal was to drag us into a war in the Middle East and bleed our economy dry. They are used to long, drawn out wars so it's nothing new for them. As long as the US is in Iraq, Bin Laden will never be short on recruits for his cause.[/QUOTE]
1. Since 9-11 we have had military actions in Afghanistan. As of today we still have military operations in Afghanistan. That did not change because of the liberation of Iraq.
2. Punishing the successful in America with redistribution of wealth (higher disproportionate taxes on the wealthy), Anti business legislation, high energy costs (due to lack of exploration, no refineries, no nuclear power, Carbon tax etc), Socialized medicine, Multi trillion dollar war on poverty, Illegal immigration out of control will bleed our economy dry, not military action to keep us and our allies free.
3. Compassion for our fellow americans should not be defined by how many entitlement programs we can create to keep them trapped in poverty and illegitimacy but by how many opportunities we can create to lift them permanently from government dependancy. Freedom is the cornerstone of compassion.
03-04-2008, 03:04 PM
#165
1. Im retired military with 25.5 years service and in 25.5 years only met one person who claimed to be a democrat.
2. Having been involved with the war in Iraq I never met anyone who didnt feel the need to be there and finish the job. I never heard of anyone wanting to come home. I never heard anyone question why we were there. I heard the contrary. Maybe seeing the empty chemical warfare cannisters or the torture chambers or the prison where over 5000 children were incarcerated had an impact on that.
3. Bin Laden et. al. attacked us because we are the infidels, the sooner all the libs realize this the better we will all be realizing the threat to our freedom. Read the Quran.
4. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were empowered by Bill Clinton's lack of response to numerous attacks on US entities. Lobbing an occasional Cruise Missile was not a serious response.
2. Having been involved with the war in Iraq I never met anyone who didnt feel the need to be there and finish the job. I never heard of anyone wanting to come home. I never heard anyone question why we were there. I heard the contrary. Maybe seeing the empty chemical warfare cannisters or the torture chambers or the prison where over 5000 children were incarcerated had an impact on that.
3. Bin Laden et. al. attacked us because we are the infidels, the sooner all the libs realize this the better we will all be realizing the threat to our freedom. Read the Quran.
4. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were empowered by Bill Clinton's lack of response to numerous attacks on US entities. Lobbing an occasional Cruise Missile was not a serious response.
The thing that sucks about this "machoism" in the military, by not being able to show any weakness, is that these are the very same people that keep everything bottled up and then go home and kill their wives and/or commit suicide.
Yes. We are the Infidels in their land and that's why they want to kill us.
Here's Clinton's response about the attacks and Bin Laden in case you haven't seen it.
Last edited by xsiveone; 03-04-2008 at 03:13 PM.
03-04-2008, 03:21 PM
#167
Team Owner
Thread Starter
03-04-2008, 03:24 PM
#168
Team Owner
Thread Starter
This is still in Autocrossing & Roadracing right?
may be biggest thread ever here.
so getting back to GM will the be making any military equipment soon. Would pull them right out of a hole possibly.
Last edited by John Shiels; 03-04-2008 at 03:27 PM.
03-04-2008, 03:47 PM
#170
Le Mans Master
03-04-2008, 03:51 PM
#171
Melting Slicks
ok - we're WAY off the topic here, guys - this one's done
