RyanR0101

Ok, I've read the entire "new to auto-x/road racing" thread, a couple books, and various other things. What I'm looking for is if anyone has any tips specifically for navigating the C5. Not the same old general stuff/advice, but specific pointers on how the C5 drives and what works/what doesn't that would be of note. Anyone?

GettReal

1) Make sure you have min 50% pad life (what Brakes are you running)
2) for sure change out clutch fluid the night before, and if you can, the same with brake fluid.
3) I drive in Competitive mode.. I wouldnt drive with TC completely off
4) Turn off A/C and open the windows
5) Ratchet the lap belt down by pulling it up once and when it releases, you can then pull it in tighter.
6) Put an extra liter of oil in and bring another one just in case, check level after 2 sessions

TedDBere

1) Brake pads...make sure you have them.
2) Clutch Fluid??? What's that? Start in first, shift to second ASAP, drive really fast. Brake Fluid??? I haven't used the brakes in four years of autox, why would I bleed the brakes?
3) Turn everything off and learn to drive.
4) If it's hot run the A/C. You'll never use all the hp anyway. I get my foot to the floor maybe once or twice a run. In a national event I'll turn the A/C off...I can use the extra 3 inches I can gain in those events.
5) Lap belt ratcheted down is good.
6) 1/2 to 1 quart oil overfill just incase. You need to be on a high speed sweeper for 5-6 seconds to oil starve the engine and that rarely happens on an autox course.

Just go have fun and learn to drive the car. As with anything it takes time to get a feel for it, and in autox you don't get a lot of time....

acrace

Have you autocrossed before? A C5 has pretty amazing capabilities for a production vehicle.

Since you've said that you've done a lot of research, you've read all about rolling into the throttle. For a car with lots of torque such as a C5, that's especially true. Easy to get too aggressive exiting a corner and having the rear end wag.

Depending upon your experience level, it will also be easy to either brake too late and too hard - thus transferring a lot of weight onto the front end and inducing understeer, or braking too early and coasting into a corner.

So, work on rolling into the throttle as opposed to driving "digitally", and concentrate on the car's braking abilities and matching the braking point/firmness of application so that the car easily rolls into the corner.

Can't emphasize enough looking ahead and picking the right visual references. Even for experienced folks, it's always something to review at the beginning of each season. I know that I always have to remember to work on my visuals the first couple of times out every year.

Make sure that you start out in your C5 with all of the good habits (hand position, seat position, smooth inputs, etc.). This way you'll have less bad habits to correct later on!

Most of all, have fun and enjoy the people that you'll meet.


Al Chan

TommyBoy72

I agree with turn off all the assists, they don't prevent you from spinning at autox anyway (things happen too quickly). I suggest 2nd gear only for your first few events but if you live at higher altitude you'll use 1st more than most people here suggest (I'm at 5500ft or higher at most event sites).

Also, the most important thing, ride with fast guys. Note they are not over driving the car, they are just fast in the fast parts...but notice where they are slow. Keep in mind everything feels faster in the passenger seat.

TedDBere

Watch the three videos in my sig to see what Al is talking about. Slow inputs with the hands and easing on the throttle. You can hear the roll on to the throttle as I feed as much gas as the tires will take. My data aquisition shows that spinning the tires can cost you up to 0.7 seconds per run. FWIW.

Everyone is fast in the fast spots, the great drivers know when to go slow and how to stay at the limits without losing traction.

96CollectorSport

Ryan,

The best tips I can give you are wheels/tires, alignment and 2nd gear.
Those are the things that helped me the most when I ran at Miller Park.
The wheels and tires are $$$ but they will make it a lot easier to go fast the stock 245/275 set-up with run-flats makes the car much harder to drive, it's so much harder to feel what the car is doing. A good set of aftermarket wheels in Z06 sizes with some stickier street rubber or some R-compounds will really help. Then get a good street/autoX alignment I would say around -1.5 camber in front and -.75 in the rear set toe to 0 all around so you don't trash you tires on the street.
Once you have a little more rubber and a better alignment it's just a matter of looking ahead and trying to get to 2nd gear as quick as possible then concentrate on driving.
If you want to come up by me some Saturday we can play around with ride height and cross weighting a little before the alignment that should help things out a little as well, but I would wait until you decide on what wheel/tire combo you want to run and if you are concerned with running in a certian class.
Later, Joel

TommyBoy72

I strongly suggest not buying any wheels and tires. Their sizes would effect classing and you just don't want to worry about that for awhile. Just drive the car. I agree an alignment is a good idea (to know where its at and promote good grip and wear). But otherwise try not to spend any money on anything other than seat time. First to see if you like the sport, and then to focus on driving as there's more time there than anywhere else.

96CollectorSport

I haven't autocrossed for a while but I do a bunch of HPDE and TT set-up, what can Ryan all do to his 98 to help it keep up with the Z06's in SS.
Can he update his whole suspension to Z06? What about wheels and tires? Does SCCA really lump all C5's into the same class?
Or put another way what can you all do to a 98 and still stay in SS?
Thanks, Joel

TommyBoy72

For SCCA it cannot be SS legal as the Z06 was not offered in 98 and doing the swap would not be a full package change. All he could do are the legal stock class mods: shocks, brake pads, FSB, air filter, tires, and stock sized (but lighter) wheels. SS is not regular C5 friendly though in many regions a C5 can beat a Z06 due to driver differences. If he's a novice, it won't really matter anyway for awhile.

96CollectorSport

Personally I would say screw it!!
Ryan lives about an hour away and I will help him install and tweak his car as he needs it. I have 2 sets of stock Z06 suspension (springs shocks and sways) that I would gladly put on his car for no charge. (Ryan, one set if Greg's and I would be he'd sell you everything for like $200). We could put that suspension on then find a cheap/used set of Z06 sized rubber and you will have a car that will feel much better at the track. So friggin what if you are no longer SS legal!
I would say between the suspension wheels and tires it would make a huge improvement over the stock 98 suspension. Then you can concentrate on seat time.

TommyBoy72

Thats certainly an option. Knowing what I know now, all I can say is I wouldn't. A fast driver is fast in a bone stock Mini and can upset those in significantly prep'd but under-driven cars. A stock C5 is certainly a lot more capable than that in the right hands, but until you have those hands, you are trying to adjust the wrong component. I can say this because I did exactly that when I started in 2000 - modified the car, not the driver. I finally saw the light three years later. I wish I had spent those three years learning to drive better as my primary focus. Once you get the basics down well enough, then opt to mod the car the way you want, or to be competitive in a certain class - to each his own at that point.

Solo2GS

As many have already said...

Shift to 2nd ASAP...

Turn traction control off!

Proper alignment with lots of negative camber (likely as much as you can get with stock settings).

Get a harness bar and harness... Nothing like spending 50% of your effort trying to stay in the seat and only 50% used to drive!

You did not say if you are running Race rubber or street tires, but some chalk and playing with tire pressures will help a lot.

Read the rule book for the classes you are in. You don't want to jump to ASP or SM2 where the amount of mods you will need to do to be competative (assuming your already one hell of a driver) will be much more then you may plan to do...

Look ahead! In your mind you should be 1-2 turns ahead and you will find that you just do it!

Seat time and have fun!!!

rfn026

Stay in the stock class and buy very few parts. Take the money you might spend on parts and spend it on motels, food bills and entry fees. You need seat time and then more seat time. Right now a stock C5 is faster than you are.

Go to every Test and Tune day within a day's driving distance.

I usually go to the SCCA Nationals in Topeka. You can't believe how fast - and aggressive - these folks get with a Stock C5.

Drive the car and then drive the car some more. Have people make vids of your driving and then critique them. In autocross it's really all about the driver. Don't fall into parts trap and end up in a class where you can't possibly win.

Richard Newton

Autocross Performance Handbook

Wheel and Tire Performance Handbook

Corvette C5 Performance Projects: 1997-2004

Solo2GS

Changing those would bump him to ASP where updating/back dating components is allowed. But at that point no reason to stay with stock springs...

STREET PREPARED
15.1 AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS

C. Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between
different years and models of a vehicle if (a) the item is standard
on the year/model from which it was taken, and (b) the years/
models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared
Classes). The updated/backdated part or the part to which
it is to be attached may not be altered, modified, machined or
otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance.
Standard factory installation methods, locations, and configurations
are allowed. The updating and/or backdating of
engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit;
component parts of these units may not be interchanged. Cars
not listed in the Street Prepared sections of Appendix A may not
be updated/backdated until approved by the SEB and published in
the official SCCA publication.

APPENDIX A - AUTOMOBILE CLASSES
Street Prepared Class A
Chevrolet
Corvette (‘97-’04) (C5)
Corvette (‘05+) (C6)

tjZ06

Somebody already mentioned alignment, but they didn't get too specific. Depending on how many street miles you put on the car, and how you feel about replacing a lot of front tires you want to shoot for a LOT of negative camber, with about a degree more front than rear (I run -2.8 front and -1.7 rear). Also, you want about .25" total rear toe-in. That will settle the rear a LOT and let you get back into the power earlier. It also lets you trail-brake a bit and gets rid of 'most' of the C5's lift-throttle over-steer. A lot of folks also like significantly less rear bar than front. If you're staying in SS you can't do any rear bar change, and since you have a non-Z06 you have a small-ish back bar anyway so that's cool. But if you're moving up classes and considering change the back bar save your $. A lot of folks like a 35mm front bar and a base or max a Z51 rear bar. I have a T1 front bar (38mm I believe) and have messed with a few back bars. Depending on the venue and course I think a Z06 bar in back works well with it. But I also used to run on 18x11 & 18x12 with 315 & 335 Hoosier A6s. With just '04 Sachs shocks, my stock '02 Z06 springs, the T1 front bar, poly bushings and of course the alignment I've acheived 1.39Gs.

I bought my car with a built motor and many other mods that instantly put it up to SM2 or OSP. I've had a lot of fun playing in OSP (I usually skip SM2 because I'd have to gut the heck out of my car to even dream of being light enough to be competative in SM2) but sometimes I wish I had just went w/ a stock car and ran in SS. But as a street car and on the road course the other mods in my car make me way too happy so it's a trade off I can live with. And I got a great deal on it, lol.

-TJ

RyanR0101

Thanks for the advice thus far. This is my first year of doing autocross. I have been to one “school” and so far two actual events, with the third coming up this weekend. The car is totally stock, including the runflats that were on it when I bought it last year. They are going bye bye next time I need tires, but that’s likely in a couple years at least. I use it for my regular car in the good weather months, so I’m not too inclined to modify much or fool with the alignment beyond stock. I can’t really say I’m serious enough to buy tires/wheels just for the event either. I’m just looking to have some fun for a few hundred bucks a year without giving said few hundred bucks to various municipalities and insurance companies. I’m looking to improve my driving ability first. Talking to folks at the event is nice, but when the MR2 driving instructor takes you around the course and says he’s flat out here, here, and here, that’s not exactly advice I can use, hence my question here. I don’t have active handling, so the TCS is either on or off. I spun a few times, then turned it on, but then I realized that it was really hampering me (you get a little tire squeal and it totally cuts the throttle for a couple seconds), so it’s back off and there it will stay. I’ve tried a few tire pressures, and the runflats don’t seem to want to roll over at all. It doesn’t seem to make much difference what pressures I use, but maybe once I get some skill it will.

TommyBoy72

Based on what you wrote above:

1. Turn off TC - Just get used to it being off and learn to drive.

2. If you want to mod the car there are four real things you can do.
a. Tires - those runflats are terrible. They don't grip all that great and they don't provide very good feedback. There are lots of true street tires that will provide a more consistent, higher level of grip such as the Kumho MX.

b. New shocks - the old ones could be very old and if they are OEM, are not very good for autox. Lots of choices out there, if you are new sometimes not having a **** to turn is a good thing and the OEM 2004 Z06 shocks might be a good choice. If you want a **** to turn for down the road, I'm using the Koni 3013s. The Penkse are a higher end option from there as are others, I've never run them on a corvette to comment directly.

c. Brake pads - Depending the type and condition of your current pads, they might use a nice upgrade. For simplicity and good daily driver duty, OEM Z06 pads might do nicely though there are lots of options. I happen to use Ferodo DS2500s for street, autox, track - but my local tracks don't have seriously hard braking zones like other places.

d. alignment - in truth the proper alignment, though perhaps out of OEM specs, might give you better wear than a factory spec one. Because of the aggressive driving in autox you'll really punish the outer edge of the tires prematurely versus the rest. An alignment can help you get more grip and longevity by using more of the tire properly.

I'm sure you'll get lots of responses but thats my advice with what I know now. As for the MR2 instructor, the thing to pay attention to isn't so much his throttle position statement, but just notice where he's going fast and where he really slows down the car - novices tend to go too slow in the fast sections and too fast in slow sections. If you can, have a fast driver take a run driving your car and you ride as a passenger - that experience is usually very eye opening.

VetteDrmr

Your priorities are essentially the same as mine: have as much fun with your car and drive it a lot on the road, cruises, etc.

I'm running 275/305 Toyo RA-1s on stock wagon wheels. I've put '04 Z06 shocks and the front sway bar has been changed to a Z06, and that's it mod wise. I'm running one step up from OE brake pads (PFC Z-rated pads, but they're getting hard to find); there are many good choices pad-wise for autox.

My alignment is -0.8 degrees camber in the front, -0.5 in the rear. Up until this year I've run essentially 0 degrees toe both front and rear, and I don't really care about caster as long as it's balanced.

When you kill the RFs, ditch them and get a nice set of normal street tires. Get a WalMart cheapo tire inflator and a SafetySeal plug kit, and you're set for just about everything a RF tire would handle. By the time the RFs are dead you'll be getting a feel for car control and you'll also have time to find a second set of stock wheels for some intermediate tires that you can drive to/from the events on.

HTH, and have fun!
Mike

GettReal

I guess I'll go against the grain here and say that for a newbie that ONLY wants to do a few events a year, "learning" with active handling ON (comp mode) can be helpful. Consider it a learning tool. It will only come on if youre doing something that the car feels isnt right. If the back end is swinging out or youre spinning alot, you havent balanced your car enough and thats what its telling you. Once you feel more comfortable and you are driving without AH kicking in, you'll be in sync with the car and able to push a bit more with no TC at all. It helped me when I used to autocross. My 2 cents.