New C4 track alignment
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: Syracuse Indiana
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New C4 track alignment
Picked up the car this evening. New alignment to the specs that Danny Popp recommended to me. Will be trying it out at the Michigan High Speed at Waterford Hills on July 5.
new tie rod ends and alignment. hope it helps.
new tie rod ends and alignment. hope it helps.
#2
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Littleton CO
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
With a C4, I think you are going to find the need for more negative camber on the track. I run 315's on all 4 corners and Guldstrand set me up with -2.2 front and -1.5 rear. Prior to that I was running about -1.5 up front and a good portion of the inside of the front tires were not wearing. If you don't have a camber bar you are going to want to add that to your list shortly for the front. It will help a lot.
Have fun!
Have fun!
#3
Melting Slicks
Was your front camber was maximized at 1.2 Neg. You are running more toe in at the rear than I am; be sure to report back on how you liked it. If Danny Popp recommends that rear toe in setting, I will probably change mine to that spec next time I have mine aligned.
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: Syracuse Indiana
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, all of you have good points. This is an all around alignment for a car that is used for street, autocross, trackdays and high speed TT. Tires are 275/40-17 street on all corners. Danny said he would have used more negative on a track only car. All the shims are out on the left front and the right front was set to match the left. The Tech who did the setup runs SCCA so he understands the rules and use it is getting. On a car that gets some street use we didn't want to go too far negative. Rules do limit what we can do to a 1SG, AS car. I am interested is seeing Danny's opinion of the setup now.
#6
Melting Slicks
With a C4, I think you are going to find the need for more negative camber on the track. I run 315's on all 4 corners and Guldstrand set me up with -2.2 front and -1.5 rear. Prior to that I was running about -1.5 up front and a good portion of the inside of the front tires were not wearing. If you don't have a camber bar you are going to want to add that to your list shortly for the front. It will help a lot.
Have fun!
Have fun!
Thank you!
Steven
#7
Race Director
Interesting initial settings. Looks good now!
Did the camber bar improve your lap times at all? I won't add that much weight without seeing some gains.
Did the camber bar improve your lap times at all? I won't add that much weight without seeing some gains.
#8
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Littleton CO
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
The Camber Brace ties the two shock towers together. On the C4 there is a lot of flex and this flex will cause the static camber to change. "The CAMBER-BRACE was designed to solve the problem of the frame flexing when going into a turn"
Yes, simular to most strut tower bars, it does help significantly. I don't know if there is a particular class you are running... But becareful not to bump yourself into another class...
My only other suggestion if you track it; brake air ducting for the front brakes!
Yes, simular to most strut tower bars, it does help significantly. I don't know if there is a particular class you are running... But becareful not to bump yourself into another class...
My only other suggestion if you track it; brake air ducting for the front brakes!
Last edited by Solo2GS; 06-27-2008 at 10:04 AM.
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: Syracuse Indiana
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Camber Brace ties the two shock towers together. On the C4 there is a lot of flex and this flex will cause the static camber to change. "The CAMBER-BRACE was designed to solve the problem of the frame flexing when going into a turn"
Yes, simular to most strut tower bars, it does help significantly. I don't know if there is a particular class you are running... But becareful not to bump yourself into another class...
Yes, simular to most strut tower bars, it does help significantly. I don't know if there is a particular class you are running... But becareful not to bump yourself into another class...
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: Syracuse Indiana
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bought the car last fall and never had it aligned since I had it. With over 162000 miles I wasn't surprised the alignment was off. Not even what I would want for all street use. from the little driving I did since picking it up I think that the new bushings, tie rod ends and alignment are going to be a big help.
#11
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Littleton CO
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
I ran AS for a while in the GS, then went up to BSP. Was fun for a while, but starting doing a lot more track days then decided to add a C5 to beat up on the track. Its in ASP and NCCC 2J and am having loads of fun! NCCC events are fun, but not a lot of competition there for me, but its great to hang out with my club members. I do my best to make it to every NCCC auto-x event that doesn't coincide with my SCCA season.
If your mostly competing NCCC the street tires won't bite you in the hind end. In SCCA AS race rubber is allowed. If you have a local regional "AT" or "street tire" indexed class then it might not be so bad.
Enjoy the new toy! Glad to see you out using it. Not enough NCCC members make auto-x their priority
If your mostly competing NCCC the street tires won't bite you in the hind end. In SCCA AS race rubber is allowed. If you have a local regional "AT" or "street tire" indexed class then it might not be so bad.
Enjoy the new toy! Glad to see you out using it. Not enough NCCC members make auto-x their priority
#12
Race Director
The camber brace has been around a long time and I still have not ever read about it decreasing lap times. If you get a chance, try testing it.
#14
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Littleton CO
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
If I am not mistaken they do make another magical device called the "Offset Poly A-Arm Bushing" that allows for more negative camber in the front!
Or for the rear a Camber Rod Kit, HD Heim Jointed Rear Toe Rod Kit, and Heim Jointed Trailing Links like I have. No more slop! No more self adjusting rear camber from worn out parts like the C4 is famous for!
Or for the rear a Camber Rod Kit, HD Heim Jointed Rear Toe Rod Kit, and Heim Jointed Trailing Links like I have. No more slop! No more self adjusting rear camber from worn out parts like the C4 is famous for!
Last edited by Solo2GS; 06-27-2008 at 04:01 PM.
#15
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Apr 2004
Location: Stanfield NC
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I am not mistaken they do make another magical device called the "Offset Poly A-Arm Bushing" that allows for more negative camber in the front!
Or for the rear a Camber Rod Kit, HD Heim Jointed Rear Toe Rod Kit, and Heim Jointed Trailing Links like I have. No more slop! No more self adjusting rear camber from worn out parts like the C4 is famous for!
Or for the rear a Camber Rod Kit, HD Heim Jointed Rear Toe Rod Kit, and Heim Jointed Trailing Links like I have. No more slop! No more self adjusting rear camber from worn out parts like the C4 is famous for!
#16
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Littleton CO
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
Poly bushings can't replace the factory camber adjuster in the rear that wears out with age and even when torqued to god know what still loosens up while you are on the track and end up with a floating rear camber! Or worse causes you to go off the track!
But yes, the ease of adjustment and the overall "more" adjustability is the main purpose. I don't recall how much the factory rear allows for adjustment, but I know it isn't much and the C4 loves negative camber. Poly or not they do wear and move slightly compared to a sperical bearing. How much I don't know...
But yes, the ease of adjustment and the overall "more" adjustability is the main purpose. I don't recall how much the factory rear allows for adjustment, but I know it isn't much and the C4 loves negative camber. Poly or not they do wear and move slightly compared to a sperical bearing. How much I don't know...
#18
Melting Slicks
If I am not mistaken they do make another magical device called the "Offset Poly A-Arm Bushing" that allows for more negative camber in the front!
Or for the rear a Camber Rod Kit, HD Heim Jointed Rear Toe Rod Kit, and Heim Jointed Trailing Links like I have. No more slop! No more self adjusting rear camber from worn out parts like the C4 is famous for!
Or for the rear a Camber Rod Kit, HD Heim Jointed Rear Toe Rod Kit, and Heim Jointed Trailing Links like I have. No more slop! No more self adjusting rear camber from worn out parts like the C4 is famous for!
Steven
#19
Race Director
that's nearly identical to the settings i use on my own car. bringiing the ride height down allowed more negative camber in my car. with no shims in front it was nearly -3.0. i have -1.2 in front and -1.5 in back. on a 770lb front spring and 490lb rear.
#20
Le Mans Master