GM's racing will hit a wall hard soon.
07-03-2008, 06:14 AM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
GM's racing will hit a wall hard soon.
Thursday, July 3, 2008
GM stock falls below $10
Company leads Dow Index into bear market;' Bankruptcy is not impossible,' analyst says
Christine Tierney and Brian J. O'Connor / The Detroit News
General Motors Corp. shares sank Wednesday to their lowest level in more than 50 years after brokerage firm Merrill Lynch raised the specter of bankruptcy for the biggest U.S. automaker.
Other Wall Street analysts also issued gloomy reports, stoking concerns that GM might run short of cash, given the swift and unexpected deterioration in the U.S. auto market.
GM shares closed down $1.77, or 15.06 percent, at $9.98, leading a broad decline in the Dow industrials in what is now officially a bear market.
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GM's stock had rallied Tuesday, briefly rising as much as 12 percent in a volatile session after the struggling company reported lower, but better than expected, sales results for June. The stock finished up 2 percent for the day, but erased those gains and more on Wednesday after Wall Street analysts spooked already nervous investors.
"The Merrill Lynch analyst was one of the last tepid bulls on GM," said David Sowerby, senior portfolio manger at Loomis, Sayles & Co. LP investment management in Bloomfield Hills. "He was the last guy defending the bunker."
In a note to investors, Merrill analyst John Murphy said he expected GM's stock to fall to $7 and forecast "significant losses" for GM this year and next. He said the automaker was going through cash at a rapid rate because of the deterioration in the auto market and would need to raise around $15 billion to keep the business going.
"We believe there is potential downside in the stock below $7 and that bankruptcy is not impossible if the market continues to deteriorate and significant incremental capital is not raised."
GM said in May that it had $24 billion in cash and access to another $7 billion of undrawn credit.
"As we've said repeatedly over the past several weeks, we have adequate liquidity through 2008, and we have other levers to pull, should we need them, in the future," GM spokesman Tony Cervone said Wednesday.
But concerns persist because of the auto market's sudden weakness. Car and truck sales are expected to fall this year to their lowest level in more than a decade, as a shaky economy and $4 gas have left consumers rattled. Adding to the stock market's worries about the U.S. economy, crude oil prices hit a record of $144.32 a barrel during the day in New York.
GM has made big strides, restructuring its North American operations and developing attractive vehicles, Murphy said.
The automaker has announced big cuts in production of large trucks and SUVs, vehicles that had been its biggest source of earnings, and it is ramping up output of cars.
But Murphy said the market's steep fall is undercutting those recovery efforts.
During the past year, the stock has fallen more than 70 percent, Sowerby said. "Stocks that drop that much mean that either a bubble burst on the stock or there is a serious question on its long-term survivability. And in the case of GM, we know there wasn't a bubble."
Citi Investment Research analyst Itay Michaeli said he did not believe that GM is facing "an immediate cash crunch" but slashed his price target on GM shares to $14 from $21, citing its likely need to bolster its liquidity later this year and next.
Bear market is official
Industrial companies are among the hardest hit in the current downturn, with 24 of the 30 Dow stocks losing value Wednesday.
The index officially moved into bear territory, closing at 11,215.51, down 1.46 percent for the day and more than 20 percent off its October high of 14,164.53. A bear market is characterized by generally pessimistic sentiment and falling prices in a declining economy.
On Tuesday, investors were briefly heartened when GM reported an 18.2 percent sales drop -- a decline that was smaller than feared. GM also performed better last month than its chief rivals after offering generous zero-percent financing and other incentives.
But Deutsche Bank analyst Rod Lache reminded investors in a note Wednesday that incentive-fueled gains tend to be followed by lulls in demand. He said he expected GM's market share to drop to the 19-20 percent range from 22.1 percent in June.
"We continue to question whether GM will be able to sustain eight different brands and over 13,000 franchises with less than 20 percent market share," he wrote.
"We believe Ford is best positioned among the Big Three," he added. "Its liquidity position should allow Ford to sustain a protracted downturn. In addition, we continue to believe that Ford is the most 'fixable' of the three U.S. automakers."
Ford shares fall
Ford had access to $40.6 billion at the end of the first quarter -- $28.7 billion in cash and securities and $11.9 billion in committed credit facilities.
But Ford's cash burn rate also is accelerating. In May, Ford upped its estimate from between $10 billion and $12 billion annually through 2009 to $12 billion to $14 billion. That has many on Wall Street guessing the company will need to tap additional liquidity to complete its global restructuring.
Ford's shares also fell sharply Wednesday, closing down 7.43 percent at $4.36.
The Associated Press and Bryce G. Hoffman contributed to this story. You can reach Christine Tierney at (313) 222-1463.
Doubt you will see any new Corvette Race cars after contract expires with P&M
GM stock falls below $10
Company leads Dow Index into bear market;' Bankruptcy is not impossible,' analyst says
Christine Tierney and Brian J. O'Connor / The Detroit News
General Motors Corp. shares sank Wednesday to their lowest level in more than 50 years after brokerage firm Merrill Lynch raised the specter of bankruptcy for the biggest U.S. automaker.
Other Wall Street analysts also issued gloomy reports, stoking concerns that GM might run short of cash, given the swift and unexpected deterioration in the U.S. auto market.
GM shares closed down $1.77, or 15.06 percent, at $9.98, leading a broad decline in the Dow industrials in what is now officially a bear market.
Advertisement
GM's stock had rallied Tuesday, briefly rising as much as 12 percent in a volatile session after the struggling company reported lower, but better than expected, sales results for June. The stock finished up 2 percent for the day, but erased those gains and more on Wednesday after Wall Street analysts spooked already nervous investors.
"The Merrill Lynch analyst was one of the last tepid bulls on GM," said David Sowerby, senior portfolio manger at Loomis, Sayles & Co. LP investment management in Bloomfield Hills. "He was the last guy defending the bunker."
In a note to investors, Merrill analyst John Murphy said he expected GM's stock to fall to $7 and forecast "significant losses" for GM this year and next. He said the automaker was going through cash at a rapid rate because of the deterioration in the auto market and would need to raise around $15 billion to keep the business going.
"We believe there is potential downside in the stock below $7 and that bankruptcy is not impossible if the market continues to deteriorate and significant incremental capital is not raised."
GM said in May that it had $24 billion in cash and access to another $7 billion of undrawn credit.
"As we've said repeatedly over the past several weeks, we have adequate liquidity through 2008, and we have other levers to pull, should we need them, in the future," GM spokesman Tony Cervone said Wednesday.
But concerns persist because of the auto market's sudden weakness. Car and truck sales are expected to fall this year to their lowest level in more than a decade, as a shaky economy and $4 gas have left consumers rattled. Adding to the stock market's worries about the U.S. economy, crude oil prices hit a record of $144.32 a barrel during the day in New York.
GM has made big strides, restructuring its North American operations and developing attractive vehicles, Murphy said.
The automaker has announced big cuts in production of large trucks and SUVs, vehicles that had been its biggest source of earnings, and it is ramping up output of cars.
But Murphy said the market's steep fall is undercutting those recovery efforts.
During the past year, the stock has fallen more than 70 percent, Sowerby said. "Stocks that drop that much mean that either a bubble burst on the stock or there is a serious question on its long-term survivability. And in the case of GM, we know there wasn't a bubble."
Citi Investment Research analyst Itay Michaeli said he did not believe that GM is facing "an immediate cash crunch" but slashed his price target on GM shares to $14 from $21, citing its likely need to bolster its liquidity later this year and next.
Bear market is official
Industrial companies are among the hardest hit in the current downturn, with 24 of the 30 Dow stocks losing value Wednesday.
The index officially moved into bear territory, closing at 11,215.51, down 1.46 percent for the day and more than 20 percent off its October high of 14,164.53. A bear market is characterized by generally pessimistic sentiment and falling prices in a declining economy.
On Tuesday, investors were briefly heartened when GM reported an 18.2 percent sales drop -- a decline that was smaller than feared. GM also performed better last month than its chief rivals after offering generous zero-percent financing and other incentives.
But Deutsche Bank analyst Rod Lache reminded investors in a note Wednesday that incentive-fueled gains tend to be followed by lulls in demand. He said he expected GM's market share to drop to the 19-20 percent range from 22.1 percent in June.
"We continue to question whether GM will be able to sustain eight different brands and over 13,000 franchises with less than 20 percent market share," he wrote.
"We believe Ford is best positioned among the Big Three," he added. "Its liquidity position should allow Ford to sustain a protracted downturn. In addition, we continue to believe that Ford is the most 'fixable' of the three U.S. automakers."
Ford shares fall
Ford had access to $40.6 billion at the end of the first quarter -- $28.7 billion in cash and securities and $11.9 billion in committed credit facilities.
But Ford's cash burn rate also is accelerating. In May, Ford upped its estimate from between $10 billion and $12 billion annually through 2009 to $12 billion to $14 billion. That has many on Wall Street guessing the company will need to tap additional liquidity to complete its global restructuring.
Ford's shares also fell sharply Wednesday, closing down 7.43 percent at $4.36.
The Associated Press and Bryce G. Hoffman contributed to this story. You can reach Christine Tierney at (313) 222-1463.
Doubt you will see any new Corvette Race cars after contract expires with P&M
07-03-2008, 09:05 AM
#2
Drifting
If the company survives, it'll race. Change is life, you know. It's a very old company that has survived quite a bit. Perhaps with whomever is elected, and the end of a protracted combat engagement abroad, fuel prices will fall.
07-03-2008, 06:04 PM
#3
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I think one or more of the three domestics drop from NASCAR when their contract ends. They were already threating to drop the look alike series. Hard to go to your board to get money to race when your are bleeding red and need money to develop new cars. If they did get to bankruptcy it would probably complicate it more.
Time to buy is now if you need a larger vehicle or a truck.
Big 3 dangle deals to fight sagging vehicle sales
Consumer incentives on SUVs and pickups are expected to stay high throughout the summer.
Eric Morath / The Detroit News
Detroit's Big Three are battling sagging vehicle sales by extending and ramping up consumer incentives, deals some analysts predict will get sweeter this summer as automakers look to move more trucks.
Chrysler LLC this week extended its $2.99 gas guarantee on most of its 2008 lineup through the end of July and added $1,000 rebates on four SUVs -- Chrysler Aspen, Dodge Durango, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Jeep Commander.
Ford Motor Co. is extending its employee pricing on F-series pickup trucks until July 7.
Advertisement
And General Motors Corp. will continue its zero percent financing for 72-month offers through the holiday weekend.
The GM incentive, introduced at the end of June, is credited with staving off an even deeper decline in June sales for the Detroit automaker and the industry as whole. GM's sales were down 18.2 percent in June. Industry-wide sales slid 18.3 percent.
"Incentives will continue on an upward trend compared to the last couple years," said Bob Schnorbus, chief economist for J.D. Power & Associates. Car companies, he added, "must do everything they can to stimulate sales, and it won't be an easy sell because consumers' ability to buy has really been hammered."
Rebates, financing deals and special offers such as Chrysler's gas guarantee -- which locks in gas prices at $2.99 a gallon for three years -- will pull some buyers off the fence, Schnorbus said.
But it will be tempered, some analysts said, and not likely to reach the record high levels of a few years ago, because there are fewer new vehicle buyers in the floundering economy, which also challenges automakers.
The best deals will come on slow-selling SUVs and pickup trucks. Rebates on cars, especially hot-selling compact and hybrid models, are expected to remain small, which has helped curtail overall incentive spending.
Last month, carmakers spent an average of $2,812 per vehicle on incentives -- a 4.4 percent hike from a year ago, said Autodata Corp. Manufacturers spent big on trucks, up 14.8 percent from a year ago, and cut spending on cars, down 2.1 percent.
"The companies are getting much more disciplined in spending money where they need to ... and not on small cars," said Jesse Toprak, chief analyst at Edmunds.com. "On a struggling large SUV, you might see incentives hit $6,000 or $7,000."
That compares to a few years ago when automakers blanketed incentives across their lineups.
" You won't see fire sales on small cars because consumers have an appetite for those," Ford sales analyst George Pipas said. "Across the industry, larger models that are not selling will continue to see mega rebates and mega low interest rates."
GM and Chrysler executives said their June incentives were successful and prevented a bad June from being even worse.
Despite auto sales hitting their lowest levels in more than a decade in June, incentive spending is not expected to match the peak levels seen in 2004 and 2005.
In June 2005, when GM first introduced "employee pricing for everyone," automakers spent an average of $3,269 per vehicle on incentives; $459 more than last month.
The lack of buyers is helping hold back incentive growth today.
"At this point for car buyers, you're in the market or your not," said Todd Turner, president of California-based Car Concepts Inc. "Automakers are wise to show some restraint because they won't attract many new buyers so they'll just be giving away $1,000 to someone who would have bought the car anyway."
Martin "Hoot" McInerney, who operates several dealerships including Star Lincoln-Mercury in Southfield, said as money gets tight for financially struggling automakers, they are less willing to spend on incentives.
"They'd like to give more, but they can't -- there is already $6,000 on the hood of an F-150," he said. "I've put my own money and gas cards into deals. The dealers got to because the factory can't anymore."
You can reach Eric Morath at (313) 222-2504.
Time to buy is now if you need a larger vehicle or a truck.
Big 3 dangle deals to fight sagging vehicle sales
Consumer incentives on SUVs and pickups are expected to stay high throughout the summer.
Eric Morath / The Detroit News
Detroit's Big Three are battling sagging vehicle sales by extending and ramping up consumer incentives, deals some analysts predict will get sweeter this summer as automakers look to move more trucks.
Chrysler LLC this week extended its $2.99 gas guarantee on most of its 2008 lineup through the end of July and added $1,000 rebates on four SUVs -- Chrysler Aspen, Dodge Durango, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Jeep Commander.
Ford Motor Co. is extending its employee pricing on F-series pickup trucks until July 7.
Advertisement
And General Motors Corp. will continue its zero percent financing for 72-month offers through the holiday weekend.
The GM incentive, introduced at the end of June, is credited with staving off an even deeper decline in June sales for the Detroit automaker and the industry as whole. GM's sales were down 18.2 percent in June. Industry-wide sales slid 18.3 percent.
"Incentives will continue on an upward trend compared to the last couple years," said Bob Schnorbus, chief economist for J.D. Power & Associates. Car companies, he added, "must do everything they can to stimulate sales, and it won't be an easy sell because consumers' ability to buy has really been hammered."
Rebates, financing deals and special offers such as Chrysler's gas guarantee -- which locks in gas prices at $2.99 a gallon for three years -- will pull some buyers off the fence, Schnorbus said.
But it will be tempered, some analysts said, and not likely to reach the record high levels of a few years ago, because there are fewer new vehicle buyers in the floundering economy, which also challenges automakers.
The best deals will come on slow-selling SUVs and pickup trucks. Rebates on cars, especially hot-selling compact and hybrid models, are expected to remain small, which has helped curtail overall incentive spending.
Last month, carmakers spent an average of $2,812 per vehicle on incentives -- a 4.4 percent hike from a year ago, said Autodata Corp. Manufacturers spent big on trucks, up 14.8 percent from a year ago, and cut spending on cars, down 2.1 percent.
"The companies are getting much more disciplined in spending money where they need to ... and not on small cars," said Jesse Toprak, chief analyst at Edmunds.com. "On a struggling large SUV, you might see incentives hit $6,000 or $7,000."
That compares to a few years ago when automakers blanketed incentives across their lineups.
" You won't see fire sales on small cars because consumers have an appetite for those," Ford sales analyst George Pipas said. "Across the industry, larger models that are not selling will continue to see mega rebates and mega low interest rates."
GM and Chrysler executives said their June incentives were successful and prevented a bad June from being even worse.
Despite auto sales hitting their lowest levels in more than a decade in June, incentive spending is not expected to match the peak levels seen in 2004 and 2005.
In June 2005, when GM first introduced "employee pricing for everyone," automakers spent an average of $3,269 per vehicle on incentives; $459 more than last month.
The lack of buyers is helping hold back incentive growth today.
"At this point for car buyers, you're in the market or your not," said Todd Turner, president of California-based Car Concepts Inc. "Automakers are wise to show some restraint because they won't attract many new buyers so they'll just be giving away $1,000 to someone who would have bought the car anyway."
Martin "Hoot" McInerney, who operates several dealerships including Star Lincoln-Mercury in Southfield, said as money gets tight for financially struggling automakers, they are less willing to spend on incentives.
"They'd like to give more, but they can't -- there is already $6,000 on the hood of an F-150," he said. "I've put my own money and gas cards into deals. The dealers got to because the factory can't anymore."
You can reach Eric Morath at (313) 222-2504.
Last edited by John Shiels; 07-03-2008 at 06:08 PM.
07-04-2008, 05:05 AM
#4
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus Ohio
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St. Jude Donor '08
plus.....chevy.com has been broke for a week and who cares?
now the important thing here is this: the oldsmobile site runs fine.
wow!
now the important thing here is this: the oldsmobile site runs fine.
wow!
Last edited by wurk_truk; 07-04-2008 at 05:07 AM.
07-04-2008, 09:34 AM
#5
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So in a world now looking to small and hybred vehicles and gas prices continuing to rise,it looks like bad timing to bing out the long awaited Camaro next near,doesn't it??I'm sure they(GM) cannot afford another blunder like the SSR.
07-04-2008, 09:58 AM
#6
Safety Car
This piece might appear in Corvette Fever. They asked me to do something on LeMans. Here it is.
"I just finished watching the LeMans race and I can’t help but feel a little disappointed. Losing is not fun. Losing twice in two years has to be tough. Over the years I’ve worked on about a half dozen twenty-four-hour races. I worked on one winning team.
It’s hard to describe what happens in a sleep-deprived state. Everything is magnified. The defeats are more difficult and a victory puts you in a new state of ecstasy. Everything is exaggerated from twenty-four hours of adrenalin.
The GM effort over the past few years has spoiled us. We’ve come to expect wins. Podium finishes just don’t count. Winning is the only thing that matters. Actually for the Corvette team only LeMans matters.
The American LeMans Series is a sideshow and it’s really not all that important. Corvette only races in the ALMS series as a way of entertaining the Corvette community; the twenty-four hours GM spends in France is the real show. The PR mavens will deny it but a failure in France means the year has been a failure.
The meetings in Detroit this month will be even more difficult. The entire effort will be questioned. The NASCAR people will be going after the road racing budget. The NASCAR crowd wants more money to take on the Toyota effort and now the LeMans effort has opened a door to the bank. This is when Doug Fehan and Gary Pratt earn their money.
I can’t help to reflect back on the early days of this effort. The days when the Corvette team showed up in Daytona and had massive engine failures due to an air intake problem. I can remember them walking up and down pit lane trying to get some extra quarts of Mobil 1 since they had run out.
Then came the victories. Pratt and Miller took the Corvette to places no one had ever been before. Corvette became the juggernaut of the endurance racing world. They scored win after win at LeMans. They humiliated the competition in the ALMS series. H*ll – they drove the competition right out of the series.
Then it came down to this – two straight losses at LeMans. Next year won’t be quite the same. Where the Corvette goes is going to be decided at some lovely wooden tables in the Ren Cen. All of the usual suits will be asking all the same questions that Fehan and Pratt answered last year. Everyone is going to put a happy face of the LeMans effort but there’s now blood in the water and the sharks are circling.
There won’t be any easy decisions here. There doesn’t appear to be enough corporate support to launch an LMP1 effort. When the LeMans classes are reorganized the Corvette will get right up against Ferrari and Porsche. If the Corvette team goes into the new GT class we’ll see some of the best sports car racing we’ve ever seen. It will also be some of the toughest. At any rate we’ve reached the turning point.
What happens in the future is up to the people in the suits. We could easily see the Corvette go on to defeat both Ferrari and Porsche in their own back yard. We could also see massive budget cuts in the GM racing effort. We won’t know which direction for many months. It’s sure going to be interesting though."
Richard Newton
How to Restore and Modify Your Corvette, 1968-1982
"I just finished watching the LeMans race and I can’t help but feel a little disappointed. Losing is not fun. Losing twice in two years has to be tough. Over the years I’ve worked on about a half dozen twenty-four-hour races. I worked on one winning team.
It’s hard to describe what happens in a sleep-deprived state. Everything is magnified. The defeats are more difficult and a victory puts you in a new state of ecstasy. Everything is exaggerated from twenty-four hours of adrenalin.
The GM effort over the past few years has spoiled us. We’ve come to expect wins. Podium finishes just don’t count. Winning is the only thing that matters. Actually for the Corvette team only LeMans matters.
The American LeMans Series is a sideshow and it’s really not all that important. Corvette only races in the ALMS series as a way of entertaining the Corvette community; the twenty-four hours GM spends in France is the real show. The PR mavens will deny it but a failure in France means the year has been a failure.
The meetings in Detroit this month will be even more difficult. The entire effort will be questioned. The NASCAR people will be going after the road racing budget. The NASCAR crowd wants more money to take on the Toyota effort and now the LeMans effort has opened a door to the bank. This is when Doug Fehan and Gary Pratt earn their money.
I can’t help to reflect back on the early days of this effort. The days when the Corvette team showed up in Daytona and had massive engine failures due to an air intake problem. I can remember them walking up and down pit lane trying to get some extra quarts of Mobil 1 since they had run out.
Then came the victories. Pratt and Miller took the Corvette to places no one had ever been before. Corvette became the juggernaut of the endurance racing world. They scored win after win at LeMans. They humiliated the competition in the ALMS series. H*ll – they drove the competition right out of the series.
Then it came down to this – two straight losses at LeMans. Next year won’t be quite the same. Where the Corvette goes is going to be decided at some lovely wooden tables in the Ren Cen. All of the usual suits will be asking all the same questions that Fehan and Pratt answered last year. Everyone is going to put a happy face of the LeMans effort but there’s now blood in the water and the sharks are circling.
There won’t be any easy decisions here. There doesn’t appear to be enough corporate support to launch an LMP1 effort. When the LeMans classes are reorganized the Corvette will get right up against Ferrari and Porsche. If the Corvette team goes into the new GT class we’ll see some of the best sports car racing we’ve ever seen. It will also be some of the toughest. At any rate we’ve reached the turning point.
What happens in the future is up to the people in the suits. We could easily see the Corvette go on to defeat both Ferrari and Porsche in their own back yard. We could also see massive budget cuts in the GM racing effort. We won’t know which direction for many months. It’s sure going to be interesting though."
Richard Newton
How to Restore and Modify Your Corvette, 1968-1982
07-04-2008, 11:16 AM
#7
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus Ohio
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St. Jude Donor '08
just read this morning that since chrysler went private...nobody really knows what goin on over there. but...maybe they will have to sell a car line or file for bankruptcy protection.
with new epa rules coming and car companies ailing... looks like the 70's again. god! i hope not!
i wish bush would release a part of the strategic oil reserves to PUNISH the oil speculators.
with new epa rules coming and car companies ailing... looks like the 70's again. god! i hope not!
i wish bush would release a part of the strategic oil reserves to PUNISH the oil speculators.
Last edited by wurk_truk; 07-04-2008 at 11:18 AM.
07-04-2008, 11:23 AM
#8
Safety Car
I think the dollars NASCAR wants will be the downfall of the program since the Car of Tomorrow (Today?) looks nothing like the car being sold today. Truck racing isn't going to sell one additional unit in todays economy. Save 140M and pull the plug. The big three need to talk to SCCA about Trans-Am to showcase the Mustang, Challenger and Camaro (might cost 5M each. They should also be gearing up to sell alot of 4-6 cyl/6 speeds for hi mileage, not just hi-po models). The cheap way out for the short term would be to write LG a check for 500k and let him develope his GT2 car this year for an all out assault in the class next year as GT1 is irelevent. Give the LMP1 car the Cadillac Crest to showcase technology, let Jim Hall manage it and call 'em Chapparals.
We are dealing with a company that discontinued the Cutless (best seller) only to drop the whole BRAND a few years later for lack of sales! The also HAVEN'T dropped Buick who's sales are WORSE NOW then Oldsmobile's when they pulled the plug so whatever is decided, don't expect it to make any sense (have no fear, if their stock drops much further, I will take the few thousand I have in savings buy GM and fix it. Starting with firing 90% of the legal, accounting, and middle/upper mangerial types with NO severance).
We are dealing with a company that discontinued the Cutless (best seller) only to drop the whole BRAND a few years later for lack of sales! The also HAVEN'T dropped Buick who's sales are WORSE NOW then Oldsmobile's when they pulled the plug so whatever is decided, don't expect it to make any sense (have no fear, if their stock drops much further, I will take the few thousand I have in savings buy GM and fix it. Starting with firing 90% of the legal, accounting, and middle/upper mangerial types with NO severance).
07-04-2008, 11:31 AM
#9
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Challenger and (Camaro?) will have basic models with 6 cylinders and Challenger starting in low 20's so it may fair well I hope.
07-04-2008, 01:31 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
or economy. My vote is that downsizing to 6 or fewer cylinders may
not prove satisfactory for buyers or sellers.
I have not come across Camaro curb weights from GM but media
speculation is that the V8 car will slot in a little below the Monaro/G8
with which it shares some heritage. The mfr's stated curb weight for
the G8 is 3,995 lbs, however 'as tested' weights have been reported
at 4,100(+) lbs.
Some comparative weights for the V8-powered versions of the new
pony cars.
4,140 lbs: Challenger SRT8
3,800 lbs: Camaro (from media estimates of 3600-3800)
3,540 lbs: Mustang GT
The V6 Mustang weighs in at about 3,400 lbs. In a track test simulation3,800 lbs: Camaro (from media estimates of 3600-3800)
3,540 lbs: Mustang GT
by Motortrend, a 2009 V6 Camaro was pitted against a current V6
Mustang - MT chose to estimate the V6 Camaro curb weight as 3,400 lbs
for the purposes of their simulation.
As a final thought, the Camaro may share the G8's 3.6L V6 with double
overhead cams and variable valve timing (256hp@6,300/248lbs-ft@2,100).
Consider the fuel economy of the V6 relative to the V8
Courtesy www.fueleconomy.gov
My vote is that there will be a niche market for vehicles like the pony
cars, the G8, the CTS-V and others along the same lines. If this view,
is accurate, then taking out content and downsizing the engines will
just make the vehicles less attractive to the niche buyers while not
going far enough to make the cars suitable for mass market buyers.
Build a few of these cars, make them with outstanding features and
quality, then price them accordingly.
As for the news about GM's financial prospects - consider the source.
While I am not dismissing the difficulties, there are pundits with a
vested interest in seeing GM go down. The danger is that they manage
to turn this into a self-fulfilling prophecy by scaring away investors
and customers.
.
07-04-2008, 02:49 PM
#11
Team Owner
Thread Starter
The stock price is the stock price no matter who tells it. The cash on hand and P&L is GM's accounting.
07-04-2008, 03:04 PM
#12
Team Owner
Thread Starter
NASCAR is about to feel Detroit's chill.
From the Autoextremist By Peter M. De Lorenzo
Detroit. It's no secret that the worst automobile market in 20 years has the Detroit auto companies reeling. It's in the national news and in newspapers across the country, and it's often the lead story on network newscasts and prime time business programming. And, of course, it's prominent on the Internet too. This isn't just a mild "adjustment" to Detroit's fortunes, either; rather, it's a dramatic, fundamental shift in how the business will be played out from here on in. And Detroit finds itself under the gun like never before.
At this very moment key players of the "Detroit Three" are evaluating every facet of their businesses, right down to the last dollar. That means every product program and every promotional/marketing/advertising program - and everything and anything between - is being placed under the microscope and being scrutinized for ways to shrink expenditures. And for the first time in a long time, Detroit's substantial NASCAR budgets are being included in the process.
In the past, Detroit's NASCAR programs usually escaped scrutiny at cost-cutting time, simply because the sport was on an upward trajectory and participation was not only a given, it was never even questioned. Well, the climate has changed dramatically, and all of NASCAR's negatives - declining attendance, declining TV ratings, the dreaded "Car of Tomorrow," which has destroyed brand recognition and differentiation, the never-ending schedule, and the spike in costs due to the influx of Toyota spending - have the powers that be at the Detroit automakers seriously questioning their NASCAR programs.
How will it shake out? The peripheral programs that NASCAR fans never think about - the track sponsorships, the promotional support programs and other components that go into the Detroit car companies' NASCAR programs - will be the first to go. Programs that are coming up for renewal now - mid- to late summer being prime sponsorship program renewal/extension/evaluation season - will be the first to be cut.
Then, the national advertising and high-visibility NASCAR-based promotions that have become so ubiquitous on networks such as SPEED will be cut back.
And finally, the actual contacts with the teams will be closely analyzed for value, and this is where it will get very interesting, because these manufacturers could easily just "cherry pick" one of the three NASCAR series (Sprint Cup, Nationwide & Craftsman) to compete in, rather than continue blanket participation, or, there is a very real possibility that at least one of the Detroit manufacturers will pull out altogether - which I've been predicting for two years now - even if it means NASCAR becoming a one-make series (Toyota).
At the very least, I can assure you that some of NASCAR's sacred cow teams - the ones that heretofore would never be considered to be on the block - will be left by the side of the road by the Detroit manufacturers in the interest of saving money.
Suffice to say that the marketing mavens in Daytona Beach will be in for a shock when these Detroit car companies begin to pull back on their NASCAR spending, because they will be ill-prepared for the depth and breadth of the reductions that are coming.
The days of Detroit's "automatic" involvement in NASCAR are coming swiftly to a close.
And NASCAR is about to feel Detroit's chill.
From the Autoextremist By Peter M. De Lorenzo
Detroit. It's no secret that the worst automobile market in 20 years has the Detroit auto companies reeling. It's in the national news and in newspapers across the country, and it's often the lead story on network newscasts and prime time business programming. And, of course, it's prominent on the Internet too. This isn't just a mild "adjustment" to Detroit's fortunes, either; rather, it's a dramatic, fundamental shift in how the business will be played out from here on in. And Detroit finds itself under the gun like never before.
At this very moment key players of the "Detroit Three" are evaluating every facet of their businesses, right down to the last dollar. That means every product program and every promotional/marketing/advertising program - and everything and anything between - is being placed under the microscope and being scrutinized for ways to shrink expenditures. And for the first time in a long time, Detroit's substantial NASCAR budgets are being included in the process.
In the past, Detroit's NASCAR programs usually escaped scrutiny at cost-cutting time, simply because the sport was on an upward trajectory and participation was not only a given, it was never even questioned. Well, the climate has changed dramatically, and all of NASCAR's negatives - declining attendance, declining TV ratings, the dreaded "Car of Tomorrow," which has destroyed brand recognition and differentiation, the never-ending schedule, and the spike in costs due to the influx of Toyota spending - have the powers that be at the Detroit automakers seriously questioning their NASCAR programs.
How will it shake out? The peripheral programs that NASCAR fans never think about - the track sponsorships, the promotional support programs and other components that go into the Detroit car companies' NASCAR programs - will be the first to go. Programs that are coming up for renewal now - mid- to late summer being prime sponsorship program renewal/extension/evaluation season - will be the first to be cut.
Then, the national advertising and high-visibility NASCAR-based promotions that have become so ubiquitous on networks such as SPEED will be cut back.
And finally, the actual contacts with the teams will be closely analyzed for value, and this is where it will get very interesting, because these manufacturers could easily just "cherry pick" one of the three NASCAR series (Sprint Cup, Nationwide & Craftsman) to compete in, rather than continue blanket participation, or, there is a very real possibility that at least one of the Detroit manufacturers will pull out altogether - which I've been predicting for two years now - even if it means NASCAR becoming a one-make series (Toyota).
At the very least, I can assure you that some of NASCAR's sacred cow teams - the ones that heretofore would never be considered to be on the block - will be left by the side of the road by the Detroit manufacturers in the interest of saving money.
Suffice to say that the marketing mavens in Daytona Beach will be in for a shock when these Detroit car companies begin to pull back on their NASCAR spending, because they will be ill-prepared for the depth and breadth of the reductions that are coming.
The days of Detroit's "automatic" involvement in NASCAR are coming swiftly to a close.
And NASCAR is about to feel Detroit's chill.
07-04-2008, 09:46 PM
#13
Instructor
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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The C6 is approved for GT1 competition with some changes to the rear area since being approved. Ave is said to be working on a 2008 style Mustang body. All that is missing is the Camaro and Challenger.
It could happen, but take some serious action now rather than later.
07-05-2008, 08:52 AM
#14
Safety Car
Good to see your alive and well Todd. My car sits (almost) ready for a lack of funds (about $1,500 and 2 weekends is all I need). We'll see what next year brings. How is Pan Am panning out? Their website doesn't say much and I'm surprised Motorsports Madness hasn't reared his head yet. 
PM me to avoid a hijack.
PM me to avoid a hijack.
07-05-2008, 11:06 AM
#15
Le Mans Master
Under the circumstances, would public opinion run in favour or against
GM if the company were to cut back on its motorsports activities in part
or in whole?
If Rick Wagoner came out and said 'we need to look at every aspect of
our operation with a view to whether it adds value in a way that will
help us navigate the serious turmoil the company faces in the immediate
future. We have determined that motorsports is a non-essential
marketing activity and have begun steps to end our participation ... '
Would people nod their heads in agreement and say, 'you go do what
you have to do to restore the balance sheet of the organization.'
.
GM if the company were to cut back on its motorsports activities in part
or in whole?
If Rick Wagoner came out and said 'we need to look at every aspect of
our operation with a view to whether it adds value in a way that will
help us navigate the serious turmoil the company faces in the immediate
future. We have determined that motorsports is a non-essential
marketing activity and have begun steps to end our participation ... '
Would people nod their heads in agreement and say, 'you go do what
you have to do to restore the balance sheet of the organization.'
.
07-05-2008, 11:09 AM
#16
Team Owner
Thread Starter
If they don't restore the org then in a few years there will be no GM racing anyway. Better to get the ducks in a row for the long term prosperity.
I am in the same boat as work is scarce and I have concentrated on work 200% and it has paid off this year. Things are really bad in construction on Long Island but I will have a good year the latter 3/4's so I need to keep it up. The car is way on the back burner now.
I am in the same boat as work is scarce and I have concentrated on work 200% and it has paid off this year. Things are really bad in construction on Long Island but I will have a good year the latter 3/4's so I need to keep it up. The car is way on the back burner now.
Last edited by John Shiels; 07-05-2008 at 11:13 AM.
07-05-2008, 11:25 AM
#17
Le Mans Master
I agree, but it isn't hard to imagine angry mobs of fans carrying torches.
How does motorsport contract back to some form of what it was in the
past? The venues, the suppliers, the participants, the fans?
I love that today I can browse on-line, key in an order and within a
week receive exquisitely detailed gadgets that I would have had to
conceive and make on my own in an earlier era. This will be hard to
give up.
Same with the many other comforts that have become commonplace.
.
How does motorsport contract back to some form of what it was in the
past? The venues, the suppliers, the participants, the fans?
I love that today I can browse on-line, key in an order and within a
week receive exquisitely detailed gadgets that I would have had to
conceive and make on my own in an earlier era. This will be hard to
give up.
Same with the many other comforts that have become commonplace.
.
07-05-2008, 03:37 PM
#18
Safety Car
NASCAR's no different than anybody else. As the economy contracts they're going to have to actually offer incentives to get people in the seats (discount hotel/ticket packages etc), cut fluff TV time and perhapes shorten the schedule/race lengths (this has happened before). The CoT was a good cost cutting move (even if it did obsolete millions in then current cars). Do you think Toyota is working on an OHC/FI crate engine? They may find themselves where ChampCar was a few years ago with a one make series (if the shrinking 3 pull out at contract time. Look for NASCAR to offer a sweetheart deal to get them to stay, but it might be too little too late). Then ole DW will have been right after all "It's all about the DRIVERS".
07-05-2008, 05:56 PM
#19
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I went to the Daytona race two years ago with friends and 5 of us spend 1200 and did nothing extraordinary. Few beers few hamburgers and dogs. People are putting that money in their gas tank now. All professional sports prices are nuts
They will all feel it. Hope all three walk away from the indistinguishable car series.
They will all feel it. Hope all three walk away from the indistinguishable car series.
07-06-2008, 01:53 PM
#20
Drifting
I believe that GM already is reducing their expenses as it comes to the SCCA road race side of things. I don't think that their support truck was at June Sprints (I wasn't there - can anyone confirm)?
