gkull

I've been doing the ride along driving instructor and even sometimes driving the owners cars while talking them through the course. My problems is i wonder how much I'm really helping even though I have 20+ years of road course experience.

I talk and use the basic hand signals. I try to never get assigned to slow underpowered cars - they drive me nuts. I've been lucky and have only been afraid to ride with one driver.

It also doesn't help to get out of my BP car and run over and immediately climb in a car going out on the next run group on a different shorter coarse for HPDE classes


Do you guys have any helpful hints?

Bill Hetzel

Hey george, where you been? Are you doing the Time Trials next weekend? I'll be doing tech and possibily instructing.

The best thing to have is an intercom but you have to layout $120 to get a decent one. They make so easy to tell the student what he has to do on the next lap to correct the mistake in that perticular corner.

The hardest thing for me is to remember what the guy did incorrectly on the last lap especially if he's doing multiple corners wrong. So, I pick only 2 to 3 corners in each session to work on.

I also use trackmaps on debrief and have the guys actually pencil in their lines or make notes on what to work on in the next session. I also frequently put the map in front of the guy 2 mniutes before he goes out to visualize what to work on and imprint this in his brain.

ShadowLight

Yeah I really like having instructors with intercoms, that would be a good addition.

LS3FORME

I use the intercom and it is a great help. I did the PCA instructor school which is the oldest and most established couse in the US. I think teaching is way more difficult then driving. I like to find the student's weak points, ex. baking zone and brake application, explain the weakness in a constructive manner, then tell the student that we are going to work on this skill today. If I get the student up to being uncounsiously doing the correct thing, I move to the next skill set that needs building. This way I feel like I accomplished something and the student does,plus PCA school was very strong on for every negative comment give 2-3 positives about on track skills. And the end goal of making the student uncounsiously compitent at the various major skills.

gkull

Bill, I have been in and out of town since the end of May. We had to get the Lola IMSA done and flown off to France for this weekends Historic 24 hours of Le' Mans. I was supposed to be mechanicing and pit crew this weekend up in Portland Oregon historic races with the GT-40 and Chevy powered Lister, but I didn't make it back from Arizona in time.

I've only had a little time availiable for getting my Vette prepped for the Time trials race next weekend. I'll be at the Reno-Fernley race track


Investing in intercoms sounds like a winner!

davidfarmer

Chatterbox will make your life better as well as the students. I find that concentrating on technical prowess over speed, stressing smooth inputs, using all of the track, and keeping a calm soothing voice makes my students happy.

Also, make sure you are EARLY to grid unless sessions prevent it, as I've found getting in early, breaking the ice and trying to develop a friendship (as much as possible), and good communication are at least as important as the actual instructing. A calm and happy student will remember and appreciate the time you spend with them.

Slalom4me

If you are willing to invest a little time and money into a project, then
consider the following.

Gather together the most frequent comments you find yourself making
to students and synthesize these into point form. Then have these
printed onto cardstock in a size suitable to fit into a breast pocket.

Include a field where the date/track can be noted and check boxes
beside each point so that applicable issues can be identified. Have lines
printed on the back so additional comments can be added if necessary.
Optionally, include the titles, authors and ISBN's for a few of your
favorite books on driving.

Be sure to include a logo or some kind of identifying caption. I think that
done right, you could find find these being clamoured for and treasured
by students.

.

AU N EGL

Communication and listening skills.

Chatterbox is a must.

OCCOMSRAZOR

My wife and I both finished a class Thursday with an instructor that DID NOT have an intercom. His hand signals were very confusing to the point of frustration.

This instructor obviously knew what he was doing, but he was unable to clearly communicate what he wanted us to do while on the track.

Previous classes with an instructor and intercom were much more useful and satisfying.

Kanmer

You do know that students can own their own Chatterboxes. I have one of my own with all the little goodies just for this situation. I also plan on instructing someday so I saw a dual purpose and thought it was a good investment.

David's advice is right on. Calm, clear, and positive always work well. Things that instill confidence are essential. If the student thinks all that they are doing is wrong then nothing is gained. Praise for the little accomplishments go a long way.

Also, keep it simple. No need to over explain things or get into the exact physics of vehicle dynamics while on the track. Get into that during downloads.

Bob

96GS#007

In addition to all the good advice given above, try to keep in mind that many people at HPDEs have no desire to go racing or do time trials.

As a result I ask them upfront what their ultimate goal is. Is it really to go racing or is it one or both of the following...

1) see what their toy feels like on a real track without fear of getting a ticket or having granny pull in front of them.
2) desire to drive better/with more confidence on the street

Given the above, I try to relate the track driving experience to real life situations they may encounter.

kam

In my opinion intercom is a must. I have had one for my motorcycle sidecar instruction for years. the one I am using now for that works excellent for track. and cost less than $60.
see it here
I'm not an instructor but ride with instructors and we have used this one at several track days.

OCCOMSRAZOR

I think that I'll get one. They aren't that expensive and definately worthwhile!

tmak26b

This is not about you, I just have a thing about instructing.

Do experiences make a good instructor or do you have to be a good driver to be an instructor? Can someone driving wrong for 30 years be a good instructor?

This is not about you, I am just curious about everyone's thought while we are talking about instructors.

The Spark

Speaking as a student - an intercom makes it so much better. I bought one for about $40 to do open road races and it works pretty good. That would get you started but you will probably want to upgrade at some point. (just about like everything else).

I like instructors that ask me how best to instruct - more talk, less talk, more hand signals, etc. I personally like an instructor that talks me through the corners until I get it right. I had a first-time instructor and he was so concerned that I was learning that he wanted me to crituique him so he could improve. That was nice - we helped each other.

Lastly, I had an instructor that was like a cheerleader (when I was doing things right). He would yell "Sweeeeeet" and "All Riiiiiiight" and clap his hands. He'd add in hand signals and instruction but the cheerleading made me know I was doing some things right too (or at least better). It made me feel more at ease and therefore smoother. It was probably the most fun session I have ever had.

C6400hp

I find that most instructors need to just shut the **** up for a couple of laps, its hard to get my fast on when you are over there chattering in my ear, or worse, being some kind of cheerleader clapping and **** breaking my concentration. Watch me drive a session or two then you have a better idea what the student really needs to focus on.

Too Tall Bob

That depends on who the student is. If the student is experienced with quite a few events under their belt and just needs some fine-tuning, then yes... less chatter is best. I would say that this driver would have to be at least intermediate or advanced.

However, if the student is a beginner or novice, then you MUST be talking right from the beginning because there are way too many safety protocols to be discussed even as they are driving the warmup lap.

Another technique you might try that I must use just due to my height is lead-follow instruction using an intercom (chatterbox) between the two cars. While I can ride in most cars, the Porsche's at PCA events and the Vipers at Viper Days are just too small for me to get in to, so I use lead-follow almost exclusively for the more advanced drivers who need help on line selection.

I've used this method for a couple of years now and I have many returning students ask specifically for me because it has been so effective for them. However, this method only works well with students who already have their basic driving fundamentals intact, such as heel-toe shifting, hand placement, etc. For a student to actually be able to see/follow someone else driving a specific line has been a much more valuable tool than you will realize, especially after the student takes a ride as a passenger in the instructors car. Hand signals and telling somebody that they are on the wrong line only goes so far.

Another reason that I chose to do lead/follow instruction is due to the fact that a good friend of mine was instructing an advanced student in the passenger seat of a Comp. Viper when the driver went off track at speed and he rolled the car... it landed upside down and they couldn't get out. I vowed that from that point on, I would never become a participant in an accident as an instructor. I'd rather be a witness while driving in my own car.

Try it, I think you'll enjoy it. Especially due to the fact that you get to drive the track even more in your own car!

EvilBoffin

I'm relatively new to Corvettes at track events, so I don't know if you'll care to hear this. But I'll offer my opinion as a mid-level HPDE student in an '08 C6, a long-time autocross instructor and computer technology instructor at my job.

The mere fact that you're ASKING this question shows a conscientious desire to improve as a instructor. For that - I thank you.

Unfortunately, I've had several instructors over the years that seem to be instructing only because it is the means to cheap (or free) lap time. I got little encouragement or sincere guidance from them. They were just there, going through the motions without much real involvement. A few even acted as if they didn't want to be there at all. I don't know - maybe they didn't like my car or me personally, but there's nothing more demoralizing then having someone show so little interest.

So, here's a few things to be mindful of:

- Remind yourself that 'students' are not second-class citizens. They are serious enthusiasts just like you are, only without the on-track experience you have.

- Don't find yourself talking DOWN to your students. Don't constantly remind them of that minor mistake that they made five laps ago, or even during a previous session. If it was a one-time issue and they have consistently demonstrated that they know how to avoid the problem thereafter, then FORGET it and move on.

- If you're not getting an important point across - they're just not converting your instructions into reality during a session, then bring them into the paddock, take off the helmets and try to change the way you are phrasing your statement outside of the pressure and distraction of "the track". You may even want to immediately take them for a few laps in your car to address the specific concern. Focused, positive reinforcement.

- No matter how hot and tired you get throughout the weekend, strive to maintain your enthusiasm and involvement during all student sessions. If you lose interest, then the student will surely lose focus too, and that's when things can get dangerous.

- I learn a LOT from riding with and around instructors. Be sure to actively plan for at least one instructor session for the student to ride with you. I suggest that you formally schedule this with your students EARLY on the first day of the event, or even the night before, as it shouldn't have to be something that the student must plead for. In fact, it may be very beneficial to provide one ride PER DAY for each student. There is just so much to learn, and it never hurts to reinforce best practices.

Obviously, most of this is just common sense, and every student responds to instruction differently. But there are times when it's best to 'go back to the basics' to ensure that you consistently provide the maximum benefit.

BTW - I LOVE the idea of the 'Lead-follow' concept that Too Tall Bob describes, though I've never had any instructor offer that before.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but maybe you'll find some of it beneficial...

AU N EGL

On the east coast there is not much lead follow. Most events can get enough instructors that lead follow is not needed.

What really helps is riding with your instructor early in the event. Watch their lines, then listen to them as they help talk you though your lines.

Plus one needs to quickly learn NOT too follow someones else's lines, but drive your own lines.

On communications note, I always ask my student what is their learning style?

Listing to instructors
Hand singles
Showing them what to do

combinations.

Having the student ask questions IN THE CAR is not an option. Most times their is not enough time to for the student to ask questions. But in the paddock give the student lots of time for them to ask you questions.

On day two, have your student talk their way around the course. Have them tell you want they are doing for the first few laps of a session.

first thing or mistakes most student make is they go back into the 'too early turn in' and 'too early apex mode.'

Next is brake too early and too softly
downshift too soon

This is when we have to work with and reinforce these techniques.

Always focus on what is UP the road, not how was that last corner.

With advance students, on day two second session, I like to talk with them about something OTHER then driving while on track. I have my students tell me about their children, their dogs, houses or something other then driving.

Why? this helps reinforce what they have learned and it becomes automatic.

We learn in steps:

Conscious what we know
conscious what we know we dont know - Need to lean new things
sub conscious what we dont know we have no clue even exits or even what we have to learn

to

conscious what we know
and
subconscious what we know we know

ie driving becomes on autopilot in our brains.
This is when advance studnets need to learn the most ( and not be solo all the time) Solo driving is fun, but limits our new learning experiences

Advanced students and race car drivers, even Instructors should ask to have other instructors or coaches ride with them in the right seat. There is always something new to learn . Even on a track we have thousands of miles on.

When we stop learning we stop growing and improving


PPL that have raced for years, are not always the best instructors. YES they can do everything on auto pilot, but can race car drivers explain and teach what they are doing to students?

gkull

The local SCCA does have some kind of track day price reduction - Which I have not done yet.

I have done the rookie road race orientations in the past. First off class room instruction with seasoned track instructors. Then its off to their cars with you or them driving. I give them the option and then change up to get them in the drivers seat after a few laps. After the orientation run period, we come back in and go over the coarse map and preferred brake point and corner line.

Yes, I have been taken up on the lead and follow offer with me as the rabbit. Some courses have the built in scare factor of off camber or blind over hill turns.

How this all recently got restarted was the call for volunteers while I was at an out of town race track.