clockworks

Hello,
So I read here that I can get some brackets that will allow me to use cheap C5 rotors on my C6 Z51. If I do that, do I still use the same size brake pads as before?

Thanks.

P.S. Anyone have a link to those brackets?

rbl

Yes.

You will find that the Z51 rotors will last about 5 times as long as the cheap C5 rotors .... mine do. I am running PFC "Z" rated pads and they stop very good but aren't too aggressive on the rotor.

clockworks

Interesting.

I plan on using Hawk HT 10 pads. My stock Z51 rotors are already starting to crack around the drilled holes, and I'm just a beginner. They are pretty pricy and I'd prefer not use "cross drilled" rotors, so I figured I'd just use the cheap throw away C5 NAPA ones.

Thanks for the reply.

EvilBoffin

Clockworks -

I recently got only THREE HPDE days at VIR out of a set of Z51-sized cross-drilled rotors. Cracked clean through from the outside drilled holes to the edge. They were Centrics, purchased new from RockAuto.com. I got them in an attempt to avoid having to buy & swap out those brackets.

I'm running pretty aggressive pads (Wilwood H's), but this degradation was ridiculous. You could clearly SEE the heat checking grow around each hole after every session. I won't make the mistake of wasting money on ANY cross-drilled rotors for track use again.

I suggest you get the C5/base C6 "abutment brackets" from Gene at GMPartsHouse.com, then you can use any of the inexpensive -PLAIN- C5/base C6 rotors. The brackets are around $30-35 each, and the rotors can be found for $30-50 each, depending on the attitude of your local NAPA store. Gene has the part numbers & exact prices, and is very familiar with our needs here. He responds best to email or phone inquiries.

Of course, you won't go through rear rotors nearly as fast as the fronts, but it might be a good idea to buy and carry a full extra set with you to any track events - just in case one cracks. Or take your OEM rotors and brackets as backups.

All C5's and non-Z06 C6's use the same size pads, even the Z51. There's loads of pad choices available for this fitment.

Rob Willis

Brake pad size is the same across the C5/C6 cars, regardless of Z51/Z06 or not.

*C6 Z06* uses different pads

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

my pad choice would be carbotech performance brakes pads 10% discount to forum members

rbl

That is really interesting and I think you may be in a lonely boat. VIR is very easy on rotors and pads and only getting 3 days says something.

My guess is that it is probably due to the cheap knock-offs from Rock Auto. The cross drill is not an issue but I know it is made out to be huge. In fact, I did not even know Rock Auto had a rotor for the Z51.

If this is your experience with the Z51 rotor then I would guess you only get one or two sessions out of the C5 rotors or 1/2 day.

I should have added that I use the OEM rotor from GM and not the cheap one they offer now. I just paid $93 each for the fronts delivered to me from my local dealer. There is no way I would use the smaller C5 stuff based on the good results I have had over the past 3 years with the Z51 setups.

0Todd TCE

Couldn't agree more. H pads are one of the most popular pads I sell for all out track day use in the racing calipers. They are extremely stable at high temps and wear well at them also. BUT, they have no place on a drilled rotor. Or a street use app either.

EvilBoffin

Well, all I can say is that EVERY SINGLE instructor or advanced driver at the NCM event that heard that I was running cross-drilled rotors agreed that it was a mistake, even though they had no idea my rotors were Centric 'knock-offs'. And every crack originated at the beveled edge of each drilled hole - there were NO cracks in the solid areas of the rotor. Unfortunately, the associated Centric-supplied picture on the RockAuto site showed a plain rotor, so I was misled about these to begin with.

I agree that the OEM's may indeed last longer, but at $93 per corner, I am willing to try what SO many others seem happy with - the C5 plain rotors.

I just can't understand why NOBODY makes a REASONABLY-priced, PLAIN z51-sized rotor, with internal venting that aims the right way on both sides of the car. This must just be TOO SIMPLE of an idea to entice a manufacturer to built it, but there's certainly a strong market for selling these things to C4, C5 and C6 guys that run the stock C5/C6 (or Wilwood) calipers with Z51 brackets.

0Vector Vette

I have a 2 piece rotor that fits the Z51 package. It uses a Coleman Racing rotor made to my specs, it is vented correctly, no holes just gas vents, aluminum hat made in our CNC machine shop. The rotor weighs 7.5 pounds less then the stock rotor. Coleman is one of the few rotor manufacturers still making them in the US. Of course they are not cheap throw away rotors, they are real racing rotors.

rbl

I agree that someone should make a solid Z51 rotor but I guess the market isn't there. A lot of reasons behind the venting as well but if you want to spend $1200 for a set of rotors you can get then going the right way. You won’t notice a difference though other than how much faster you’re going because of the reduced load in your wallet.

I’m not surprised about all the hype over cross drilled ... bla, bla, bla. I stopped in at the NCM event and was at Chin. A ton of arm chair racers don't like them either and it is almost a religious issue. The mileage varies and mine is good. Having a choice I would opt for solid rotors; however, this isn't an option and with a reasonable pad you will get very good life from an OEM (gasp) cross drilled rotor. I have 4 years of experience with them and have had good service.

I will never understand why people spend big$$ on brake paraphernalia for HPDE. We don't run the C6 hard but we bump 140 on the back and 125 on the front at VIR. The PFC "Z" pads stop the car just fine and gets into the ABS so what more can I ask for. You can buy then for $100 a set too.

You will quickly discover for yourself, however, that the "cheap" $30/40 C5 rotors compared to the $93 for a set of fronts are actually more expensive after the fat lady finishes the song. The rears will probably outlast the fronts 2-3:1.

Drive safe

0Todd TCE

I've got the same two piece package here as well:
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Pages/16/index.asp

Available in full kit form with the pads and hoses or just as the hat/rotor. Replacements remain reasonably priced (as any two piece goes) and of course directional.

I must confess however that for the extreme hard core track user the cost to value relationship may still be in question. If you can do the Autozone specials for $35ea or some lowball price, even tossing them out on a weekly basis from use will probably remain cheaper than the two piece when calculating operating costs. The 'problem' with the two piece is that it cannot really be any beefier than the oem parts or it won't fit the caliper- it tends to be more of a lateral move for weight savings, air flow and appearance. If you argue 2-3x the life of it you may be right but at 2-3x the cost is it money well spent? Up to you.

LS3FORME

The problem with the cheap drilled rotors is that the holes are not champered( spell), people talk out of their ars, if the rotors are designed for holes not just looks the cross drilling is fine, if the holes are just straight cut then they are chease graters, I have had floating rotors, Brembos big buck, that have no holes at all but little scallops that also cracedk from day one, Hair line cracks, not an issue as long as they don't go out to the outer edge or larger then a finger nail. The coleman rotor is a great product, as are brembos, or PFC. These cheap o rotors are crap metal, crap design, the GM z51 is a much superior product. What new HPDE guys need to know is that, 1. Brakes are expendable. 2. making then last is a talent. 3 The fact that two drivers with the same setup can get diff. results due to driving style. 4. Smoothness is speed not over braking then drag racing down the straights. 5. Drivers that keep momentum up and not scrub speed with braking or poor driving line are skilled and should be followed and learned from. Not the guy whom is a HPDE big mouth.

EvilBoffin

Since this unnecessary and insulting attack is CLEARLY aimed at me, and nobody else using "cheap" rotors is willing to respond -

• The Centric Z51-sized rotors DO have chamfered holes, and looked EXACTLY like the OEM's out of the box, right down to the painted, curved shape leading down to the hat. I hoped they would be a useful alternative to the smaller C5 rotors or to EXPENSIVE rotors, which I can't afford right now. Instead, they truly are crap, apparently. The OEM's are clearly a superior product.

• Thanks so much for saying that I'm talking "OUT OF MY ARS" (the insult is spelled ****, btw). I simply tried to answer the OP's original question, and offer my recent & unsatisfactory experience with these rotors. Why do you have a problem with that?

• AVOIDING the use of cross-drilled rotors at track events has been CONSTANTLY preached to me by lots of respected Vette drivers including Wally Crawford, Mike Higgins, Dave Farmer and Jim Zilisch. I wouldn't refer to any of them as "arm chair racers".

• By the end of the 3rd day of use, quite a few hairline cracks had INDEED grown from the outer CHAMFERED holes completely through the outer edge of the rotors. They were shot.

• You know NOTHING about my history or how I drive, so I don't appreciate being called an HPDE big mouth.

And for reference, my instructor at the NCM event (TimZ06) said NOTHING notable or negative about my smoothness, braking points or momentum maintenance. Since I've only been to VIR twice, I absolutely have a lot to learn. Yet I NEVER needed to give a point-by during the entire event in the Advanced Intermediate (Blue) group unless I was on a cool-down lap, even with some very fast cars & drivers on the track. I will certainly give anyone a point whenever the situation arises, but it simply did not happen during the NCM weekend.

Because, I (and many others) don't drive DE's quite so gently. I consistently topped-out at an indicated 152-154MPH on the back straight and eventually ramped up to 145MPH on the pit straight during some solo hot laps. Also, several Blue-group guys told me that I was visibly carrying a lot of MOMENTUM through the Roller Coaster, the upper esses and Hog Pen.

I may not intend to go racing, but I AM fully committed to get as much out of the car at any track event as I'm safely capable of (and still be able to drive the car home).

I won't bother to offer my opinion here again, since there is such a lack of respect for differing viewpoints.

** Moderators should lock this useless thread.

0Todd TCE

All this chamfered hole stuff doesn't add up to much guys. The holes remain chamfered on only two of the four sides to begin with. But even at that chamfered holes won't solve the root problem: thermal expansion and contraction being interrupted by the hole. The chamfered hole really only keeps the wear on the pad down over the square cut hole, doesn't have a huge impact on the life of the part when "abused".

Coleman rotor, chamfered. I buy hundreds of them so it's not about who makes it or quality or such; it's all about heat.

clockworks

Well, if it matters at this point, I found your posts to be very informative and well written. Thanks for posting.

And yes, I found that one post a bit demeaning, though I didn't pick up on who it was targeted at because I just skimmed it at a much later time then when I read your post. ..but yeah, that isn't cool.

For the record, though I have no real scientific grounds to back this up, I'm not too keen on drilled rotors either.

0C5stein

MSI has a special on Performance Friction "Z-rated" Pads and "01" race pads. I've tried alot of pads in the past 25 years and have found IMHO that for the level of performance, PFC brake pads offer the best total value.
They are easy on rotors, which saves you money in the long run, they offer great friction, and work really well from the first lap to the last.

The Z-rated pads are $230 for fronts and rears (or $115 each box).