Don't ever think your safe going fast, ever.
08-25-2008, 04:58 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Don't ever think your safe going fast, ever.
Having owned and raced before in similar boats I have seen this all to often over the years unfortunately. I have had three close times myself I regret I am still lax on my car safety. They probably thought a fairly calm boat race inshore on a bay. "We have canopies so what could go wrong" may have been their thoughts. It may have given them a false confidence also. I have not attended a race since I stopped in 2000 as it rips my heart out to not do it.
I was watching in my boat and right at the turn where they rolled over. The bay is about 12 feet deep and conditions calm for boats this size. Rescue looked delayed as seconds count like a car on fire and the occupant trapped. Not sure on the safety equipment on the boat. They could have had a tunnel hatch and should of had oxygen masked affixed. While running as I did in the later boats. Rumoured they took out part of the support cage for the canopies.
I watched it all unfold and my heart sunk as time went by I was guessing the outcome.
We all race here or some not really race but HPDE. Thing is we go as fast as racing cars in street cars and skimp on safety including myself. I don't run the car like a newbie and run it hard like a race but lack the proper equipment. Really makes me think as I know I am lacking in all I can do for safety. Cage and fire supression is not much compared to engines or even rims and tires we burn up at huge expense.
Really sucks they went out for a fun day and did not return as has happen here with cars at times recently even at HPDE. I think as the cars get faster as boats have the accidents will be more often and worse. The race cars of yesterday didn't have the power of the street cars today. One thing they did have is a better safety system and possibly a better driver at times. Take nothing for granted it is a risk going fast but that may be the draw for some of us.
They were two brothers who died in the boat so that family is really devastated I am sure.
Don't ever get to comfortable going fast. You can't even get comfortable driving on the street in traffic at times the way people drive.
From what I witnessed the recuse was not what I am used to seeing and possibly could have been better. When at a track event look at the safety support and have emergency facts in place like telephone numbers even if you drive 8/10's you could be hit. I sadly video taped the whole thing as I saw it start to go out of control.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Fatal.B....2.802070.html
Aug 24, 2008 11:27 pm US/Eastern
2 Die When Speedboat Overturns During NY Bay Race
PATCHOGUE, N.Y. (AP) ― A speedboat taking part in a race on a Long Island bay has overturned, killing two people.
Suffolk County police say the boat's driver and an assistant controlling its speed were the only people on board when it flipped Sunday afternoon. They say the operator and the throttleman were pronounced dead at a hospital.
Police say they don't know why the boat turned over during the Battle on the Bay race in the Great South Bay, a lagoon between Patchogue (PACH'-awg) and Fire Island.
Witnesses say some racing boats were doing more than 150 mph. They say the accident occurred far from shore and stopped the race.
Nearly 50 speedboats took part in the weekend-long event promoted by Great South Bay Racing.
The racing organization hasn't returned a telephone message seeking comment.
I was watching in my boat and right at the turn where they rolled over. The bay is about 12 feet deep and conditions calm for boats this size. Rescue looked delayed as seconds count like a car on fire and the occupant trapped. Not sure on the safety equipment on the boat. They could have had a tunnel hatch and should of had oxygen masked affixed. While running as I did in the later boats. Rumoured they took out part of the support cage for the canopies.
I watched it all unfold and my heart sunk as time went by I was guessing the outcome.
We all race here or some not really race but HPDE. Thing is we go as fast as racing cars in street cars and skimp on safety including myself. I don't run the car like a newbie and run it hard like a race but lack the proper equipment. Really makes me think as I know I am lacking in all I can do for safety. Cage and fire supression is not much compared to engines or even rims and tires we burn up at huge expense.
Really sucks they went out for a fun day and did not return as has happen here with cars at times recently even at HPDE. I think as the cars get faster as boats have the accidents will be more often and worse. The race cars of yesterday didn't have the power of the street cars today. One thing they did have is a better safety system and possibly a better driver at times. Take nothing for granted it is a risk going fast but that may be the draw for some of us.
They were two brothers who died in the boat so that family is really devastated I am sure.
Don't ever get to comfortable going fast. You can't even get comfortable driving on the street in traffic at times the way people drive.From what I witnessed the recuse was not what I am used to seeing and possibly could have been better. When at a track event look at the safety support and have emergency facts in place like telephone numbers even if you drive 8/10's you could be hit. I sadly video taped the whole thing as I saw it start to go out of control.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Fatal.B....2.802070.html
Aug 24, 2008 11:27 pm US/Eastern
2 Die When Speedboat Overturns During NY Bay Race
PATCHOGUE, N.Y. (AP) ― A speedboat taking part in a race on a Long Island bay has overturned, killing two people.
Suffolk County police say the boat's driver and an assistant controlling its speed were the only people on board when it flipped Sunday afternoon. They say the operator and the throttleman were pronounced dead at a hospital.
Police say they don't know why the boat turned over during the Battle on the Bay race in the Great South Bay, a lagoon between Patchogue (PACH'-awg) and Fire Island.
Witnesses say some racing boats were doing more than 150 mph. They say the accident occurred far from shore and stopped the race.
Nearly 50 speedboats took part in the weekend-long event promoted by Great South Bay Racing.
The racing organization hasn't returned a telephone message seeking comment.
Last edited by John Shiels; 08-25-2008 at 05:02 PM.
08-25-2008, 05:16 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Your post is proof that it isn't just the victim that is hurt when
things go wrong - sorry that you happened to be there to witness
the tragedy.
My condolences to the family and friends of the two men in the boat.
.
things go wrong - sorry that you happened to be there to witness
the tragedy.
My condolences to the family and friends of the two men in the boat.
.
08-25-2008, 05:54 PM
#5
Team Owner
Thread Starter
more info but I am doubting some of it.
As you read the article they all seem to think they are invincible with new technoloy which has failed befere in the sport of offshore as it has with auto racing. I am starting to think NASCAR guys are thinking the same now and may be in for a rude awakening even as good of a job as they have seemed to have done lately.
I would say the oxygen masks were ripped from there faces as it looks the canopy collapsed in the front in the pictures. More high tech giving false security.
Initial probe finds water pressure killed boat racersExpert says safety features mean death of two men on powerboat 'really shouldn't have happened'
BY BILL BLEYER AND PATRICK WHITTLE | bill.bleyer@newsday.com patrick.whittle@newsday.com
2:54 PM EDT, August 25, 2008
The two occupants of an offshore powerboat participating in a race Sunday off Patchogue were killed by the pressure of water forced into the hull after it flipped on its side, a preliminary investigation has found.
That is the initial assessment of Ed Smith, president of the Offshore Performance Association, which organized the race.
Phil DeJana of Bayville, and Kevin Graff of Port Washington, were killed when their 37-foot Marine Technology Inc. twin-engine catamaran flipped at between 90 and 100 mph during the Battle on the Bay powerboat race in Great South Bay.
Like an Indy 500 or other professional race car, the current generation of offshore racing powerboats is designed with an array of safety features to allow the occupants to survive a crash. So industry officials are stunned that the accident killed both members of the crew.
Related links
Fatal Boat Crash Photo
Boat from fatal accident pulled to shore Video
Photos: Fatal boat accident Photos
Nassau's DWI arrests from August
The helmsman and throttle man are protected by six-point racing harnesses, bulletproof canopies and a protective impact-absorbing capsule, and there are scuba tanks so they can breathe if submerged while awaiting rescue.
Offshore races have been held on and off around New York and Long Island since the 1960s and the safety record has improved with the technology since millions of dollars in research was done after a 1986 fatal accident.
DeJana, 62, was vice president and a principal in DeJana Industries Inc., a Port Washington road maintenance company that employs 130 people in several states, but friends described him as just one of the guys. He had been racing powerboats since at least the 1980s and had moved up to bigger and more powerful boats.
A mechanic for his company, George Idze, 35, said "although he was on the top of the company, he always was part of a team with us."
Graff, 48, was an electrician who loved racing speedboats and he had been at it at least 10 years. Jerry May, a friend, said "he went doing what he loved to do in a blaze of glory. He loved living on the edge."
Billy Frenz, executive director of the Connecticut-based National Powerboat Association, which sponsors offshore powerboat races on the Hudson River and other venues, said he knew the two racers from the 1980s when they were racing a smaller catamaran.
"This is their second year with that boat," said Frenz, who was at the race. "Last year he had smaller power," twin 525-horsepower engines.
"This year he moved up to twin 750s and moved up a class" from Cat Light for light catamaran to Extreme. "He could run 150 miles an hour now."
Frenz said the larger boat included a closed capsule around the crew to protect them and a scuba tank for each person "so they should be able to breathe a minimum of eight minutes" while awaiting rescue.
"It's hard to understand why this happened because with today's safety standards it really shouldn't have happened," he said.
He said the safety equipment is inspected before racing by the sanctioning organization.
The boats are made of Fiberglas or polyester resins to resist damage, Frenz said. "I don't understand why it has an eight-foot gash on the starboard gunwale unless it violently hooked because Great South Bay is calm," he said. "These boats are made to run in the ocean. So this thing should not open up or crack in Great South Bay. It's considered a pond" by ocean racers.
He said the bay is also not known for having floating debris like the Hudson River where he organizes races.
"Years ago we were losing people left and right," Frenz said. "With this new generation of boats, this shouldn't happen."
The Coast Guard said it does not have data on powerboat race accidents because they are generally investigated by the states. The agency issues permits for the race and handles security to protect observers but leaves the other safety issues up to the sanctioning organization.
The incident occurred at about 4:30 p.m. south of Shorefront Park, which served as race headquarters and where spectators gathered to watch the event.
The race came to an abrupt end as the injured racers were removed by a diver and a Suffolk County police boat pulled the damaged vessel to the dock. An eight-foot gash was visible on the right rear side. Flags in the park were lowered to half-staff.
Coast Guard Petty Officer 1st Class Jeremy Clouse, coxswain of a 25-foot response boat on scene, said, "We were enforcing the security zone around the race and I noticed the water going everywhere. The other 25-foot boat crew was already at the wreck, with two Coast Guardsmen in the water trying to do what they could to get the people out. One of the race helicopters dropped a diver who was able to get the emergency hatch open and pull the victims out."
The two men were transferred to a local fire response boat, which took them to emergency medical service personnel waiting onshore. Both were pronounced dead at a hospital.
Jim Poplin, the race safety director, said the Offshore Performance Association, as sanctioning body for the race, will take the boat apart and reconstruct it to determine the cause.
Between 40 and 50 craft took to the waves during the event, sponsored by Great South Bay Racing Inc., OPA Racing and the Village of Patchogue. More than 5,000 spectators watched the race from the shore and at least another 500 watched from their own boats
As you read the article they all seem to think they are invincible with new technoloy which has failed befere in the sport of offshore as it has with auto racing. I am starting to think NASCAR guys are thinking the same now and may be in for a rude awakening even as good of a job as they have seemed to have done lately.
I would say the oxygen masks were ripped from there faces as it looks the canopy collapsed in the front in the pictures. More high tech giving false security.
Initial probe finds water pressure killed boat racersExpert says safety features mean death of two men on powerboat 'really shouldn't have happened'
BY BILL BLEYER AND PATRICK WHITTLE | bill.bleyer@newsday.com patrick.whittle@newsday.com
2:54 PM EDT, August 25, 2008
The two occupants of an offshore powerboat participating in a race Sunday off Patchogue were killed by the pressure of water forced into the hull after it flipped on its side, a preliminary investigation has found.
That is the initial assessment of Ed Smith, president of the Offshore Performance Association, which organized the race.
Phil DeJana of Bayville, and Kevin Graff of Port Washington, were killed when their 37-foot Marine Technology Inc. twin-engine catamaran flipped at between 90 and 100 mph during the Battle on the Bay powerboat race in Great South Bay.
Like an Indy 500 or other professional race car, the current generation of offshore racing powerboats is designed with an array of safety features to allow the occupants to survive a crash. So industry officials are stunned that the accident killed both members of the crew.
Related links
Fatal Boat Crash Photo
Boat from fatal accident pulled to shore Video
Photos: Fatal boat accident Photos
Nassau's DWI arrests from August
The helmsman and throttle man are protected by six-point racing harnesses, bulletproof canopies and a protective impact-absorbing capsule, and there are scuba tanks so they can breathe if submerged while awaiting rescue.
Offshore races have been held on and off around New York and Long Island since the 1960s and the safety record has improved with the technology since millions of dollars in research was done after a 1986 fatal accident.
DeJana, 62, was vice president and a principal in DeJana Industries Inc., a Port Washington road maintenance company that employs 130 people in several states, but friends described him as just one of the guys. He had been racing powerboats since at least the 1980s and had moved up to bigger and more powerful boats.
A mechanic for his company, George Idze, 35, said "although he was on the top of the company, he always was part of a team with us."
Graff, 48, was an electrician who loved racing speedboats and he had been at it at least 10 years. Jerry May, a friend, said "he went doing what he loved to do in a blaze of glory. He loved living on the edge."
Billy Frenz, executive director of the Connecticut-based National Powerboat Association, which sponsors offshore powerboat races on the Hudson River and other venues, said he knew the two racers from the 1980s when they were racing a smaller catamaran.
"This is their second year with that boat," said Frenz, who was at the race. "Last year he had smaller power," twin 525-horsepower engines.
"This year he moved up to twin 750s and moved up a class" from Cat Light for light catamaran to Extreme. "He could run 150 miles an hour now."
Frenz said the larger boat included a closed capsule around the crew to protect them and a scuba tank for each person "so they should be able to breathe a minimum of eight minutes" while awaiting rescue.
"It's hard to understand why this happened because with today's safety standards it really shouldn't have happened," he said.
He said the safety equipment is inspected before racing by the sanctioning organization.
The boats are made of Fiberglas or polyester resins to resist damage, Frenz said. "I don't understand why it has an eight-foot gash on the starboard gunwale unless it violently hooked because Great South Bay is calm," he said. "These boats are made to run in the ocean. So this thing should not open up or crack in Great South Bay. It's considered a pond" by ocean racers.
He said the bay is also not known for having floating debris like the Hudson River where he organizes races.
"Years ago we were losing people left and right," Frenz said. "With this new generation of boats, this shouldn't happen."
The Coast Guard said it does not have data on powerboat race accidents because they are generally investigated by the states. The agency issues permits for the race and handles security to protect observers but leaves the other safety issues up to the sanctioning organization.
The incident occurred at about 4:30 p.m. south of Shorefront Park, which served as race headquarters and where spectators gathered to watch the event.
The race came to an abrupt end as the injured racers were removed by a diver and a Suffolk County police boat pulled the damaged vessel to the dock. An eight-foot gash was visible on the right rear side. Flags in the park were lowered to half-staff.
Coast Guard Petty Officer 1st Class Jeremy Clouse, coxswain of a 25-foot response boat on scene, said, "We were enforcing the security zone around the race and I noticed the water going everywhere. The other 25-foot boat crew was already at the wreck, with two Coast Guardsmen in the water trying to do what they could to get the people out. One of the race helicopters dropped a diver who was able to get the emergency hatch open and pull the victims out."
The two men were transferred to a local fire response boat, which took them to emergency medical service personnel waiting onshore. Both were pronounced dead at a hospital.
Jim Poplin, the race safety director, said the Offshore Performance Association, as sanctioning body for the race, will take the boat apart and reconstruct it to determine the cause.
Between 40 and 50 craft took to the waves during the event, sponsored by Great South Bay Racing Inc., OPA Racing and the Village of Patchogue. More than 5,000 spectators watched the race from the shore and at least another 500 watched from their own boats
08-26-2008, 08:31 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2005
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I have to agree with you. Safety is often overlooked. I can't tell you how many times I read on the forum guys looking for the cheapest brake rotors etc. I like others want to save money but the last thing I want the cheapest made product is a safety item.
I just sold my C6Z and got a C5Z. I decided to make a track dedicated car
with mostly safety in mind.
Thanks for posting.
Dan
I just sold my C6Z and got a C5Z. I decided to make a track dedicated car
with mostly safety in mind.
Thanks for posting.
Dan
08-26-2008, 09:21 AM
#7
Team Owner
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Anyone that thinks doing HPDEs is not dangerous is very foolish. When you can hit speeds of over 150 mph at most of these tracks you have to understand that your car is not designed for that impact. Sure the vettes do a great job holding up to a crash. I witness one 2 weeks ago at Thunderbolt that slammed into the guard rail around 80mph. Both Student and instructor walked away and the cockpit was not damaged. The car did hold up to the impact, but easily a small degree change in impact could of meant someone was not walking away.
Safety was my main concern this year and why I added race proven seats and race proven seat rails to my car. I do not trust adjustable seatbacks and sliding rails to hold me in place. As a matter of fact I was just in a car with sliding rails and the seat slide all the way back when I went to take off. That would have sucked if I was already moving.
Properly installed safety equipment should be high on the list for all of us that regularly attend a track day.
prayers to the family of the boaters that have to come to the realization that Phil and Kevin are not coming back from this one.
Safety was my main concern this year and why I added race proven seats and race proven seat rails to my car. I do not trust adjustable seatbacks and sliding rails to hold me in place. As a matter of fact I was just in a car with sliding rails and the seat slide all the way back when I went to take off. That would have sucked if I was already moving.
Properly installed safety equipment should be high on the list for all of us that regularly attend a track day.
prayers to the family of the boaters that have to come to the realization that Phil and Kevin are not coming back from this one.
08-26-2008, 09:52 AM
#8
Former Vendor
I have to agree with you. Safety is often overlooked. I can't tell you how many times I read on the forum guys looking for the cheapest brake rotors etc. I like others want to save money but the last thing I want the cheapest made product is a safety item.
I just sold my C6Z and got a C5Z. I decided to make a track dedicated car
with mostly safety in mind.
Thanks for posting.
Dan
I just sold my C6Z and got a C5Z. I decided to make a track dedicated car
with mostly safety in mind.
Thanks for posting.
Dan
Randy
08-26-2008, 09:57 AM
#9
Former Vendor
I watch some of your guys videos of HPDE. Most of the time it looks like a race, nose to tail. Without a proper amount of room to react to a tire blow out, driver error, wheel bearing failure, suspension failure, engine blowup, rear diff seal blow out, and etc.
I have been seeing alot of short door bars too
Who cares about getting in and out of the car in the paddock? In a fire you can get out of anything fast. Why protect the legs when those don't matter as much as the torso.
Randy
PS I fell sorry for the family of boaters
I have been seeing alot of short door bars too
Who cares about getting in and out of the car in the paddock? In a fire you can get out of anything fast. Why protect the legs when those don't matter as much as the torso.Randy
PS I fell sorry for the family of boaters
08-26-2008, 10:23 AM
#10
We all race here or some not really race but HPDE. Thing is we go as fast as racing cars in street cars and skimp on safety including myself. I don't run the car like a newbie and run it hard like a race but lack the proper equipment. Really makes me think as I know I am lacking in all I can do for safety. Cage and fire supression is not much compared to engines or even rims and tires we burn up at huge expense.
My condolences to the family. The boats are just as dangerous as fast cars. I think the drag boats are even more dangerous. But it's what we do as racers.
John, I hope you do put in the cage and fire system. The post the other week about cages where you said you were hitting 165 and thinking about a cage gave me cold chills.
Safety can't be overdone.
08-26-2008, 11:21 AM
#11
CF Senior Member
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: Tucson Arizona
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What a tragic accident...my thoughts are with the family and friends of the victims.
Good post! As road racing begins to take precedence over street driving, I'm realizing I've been lax on safety myself. I'm taking steps to improve safety but it's a process.
I think one is more 'reluctant' to commit to full safety measures on a car that is used mostly on the street. I feel it's easier to make the mental committment to full race car safety when it's a dedicated track car...you loose the pleasure car considerations.
Most people start off with emphasis on improving power, handling, braking, etc. Safety should not be an afterthought. Again, good post!
Good post! As road racing begins to take precedence over street driving, I'm realizing I've been lax on safety myself. I'm taking steps to improve safety but it's a process.
I think one is more 'reluctant' to commit to full safety measures on a car that is used mostly on the street. I feel it's easier to make the mental committment to full race car safety when it's a dedicated track car...you loose the pleasure car considerations.
Most people start off with emphasis on improving power, handling, braking, etc. Safety should not be an afterthought. Again, good post!
08-26-2008, 12:05 PM
#12
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I went to run with a club at Pocono few years back. I ask where or who do I give my emergency contact info to? They replied "We don't take any nothing ever happen and we hope it continues that way" I then gave my contact numbers to 3 different friends at the track. It was not a good feeling that they were prepared if something did happen. They were more worried about my tires protruding 3/4" and were not going to let me run.
I look at the Pocono incident where cars were lined up waiting to go out and a guy comes off track and slams them. I don't remember any being seriously hurt but it shows you are not 100% in control of your destiny. I think the cars were damaged substantially if not one totaled.
I look at the Pocono incident where cars were lined up waiting to go out and a guy comes off track and slams them. I don't remember any being seriously hurt but it shows you are not 100% in control of your destiny. I think the cars were damaged substantially if not one totaled.
08-26-2008, 02:11 PM
#13
Former Vendor
I went to run with a club at Pocono few years back. I ask where or who do I give my emergency contact info to? They replied "We don't take any nothing ever happen and we hope it continues that way" I then gave my contact numbers to 3 different friends at the track. It was not a good feeling that they were prepared if something did happen. They were more worried about my tires protruding 3/4" and were not going to let me run.
I look at the Pocono incident where cars were lined up waiting to go out and a guy comes off track and slams them. I don't remember any being seriously hurt but it shows you are not 100% in control of your destiny. I think the cars were damaged substantially if not one totaled.
I look at the Pocono incident where cars were lined up waiting to go out and a guy comes off track and slams them. I don't remember any being seriously hurt but it shows you are not 100% in control of your destiny. I think the cars were damaged substantially if not one totaled.
My iceracing group is great but they have a couple loop holes also. I have told about ten different people that are there everyweek. "steel in my eye, NO MRI." That means if I ever hit my head that they should do a x-ray before a MRI. It is also on my helment.
Randy
08-26-2008, 04:05 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
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I hear the LS3 would be an awesome and solid upgrade when required.
08-26-2008, 04:47 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Last year we had a horrific boating accident up on Lake Texoma. A "non-speed" poker run for the big inboard power boats (a friend of mine that was almost involved was running a 36' twin-screw boat v-bottom), apparently one boat was headed towards the pier (probably a mile away) at speed, one was coming out at speed, and somehow they collided almost head-on, probably minimum 70 mph per boat. Six people between the two boats, 5 killed instantly (the sixth survived miraculously with almost no injuries).
About a month ago a friend of mine, his wife, and son were killed in a take-off accident in his private plane. Flown for decades, active in EAA, had probably half his total time in this aircraft, stalled and spun in. Why? Hot day, heavy, light winds, just ate up his margin. Buried too many friends in General Aviation; killed my desire to fly for fun. Sold my Long EZ and got the Vette.
Point is, John's totally right: never, ever think Murphy isn't riding on your shoulder.
Have a good one,
Mike
08-26-2008, 05:01 PM
#16
Team Owner
Thread Starter
My condolences to the family. The boats are just as dangerous as fast cars. I think the drag boats are even more dangerous. But it's what we do as racers.
John, I hope you do put in the cage and fire system. The post the other week about cages where you said you were hitting 165 and thinking about a cage gave me cold chills.
Safety can't be overdone.
John, I hope you do put in the cage and fire system. The post the other week about cages where you said you were hitting 165 and thinking about a cage gave me cold chills.
Safety can't be overdone.
hitting the wall at 165 is better than hitting at 80 or 100 where your mangled and injured for life. Hitting at 165 makes your an interesting thread here with no pain. Look at some street accidents at 70 mph they are horrific
I cannot imagine even scrubbing some speed at hitting an unmovable wall at 100 or 120 or even 80.The boats at 37' and capable of 160 mph is nuts. I did 145 in a 32" and it was nuts. The cars at HPDE are getting the same way BIG motors and NO safety. I will not put another dime into more motor speed before a cage, fire suppression and containment seat of some type. I have had a long run with fast bikes, the present car and 3 close boat accidents. I am starting to think Murphy is getting closer if not already on my shoulder.
Last edited by John Shiels; 08-26-2008 at 05:06 PM.
08-27-2008, 07:04 AM
#17
Melting Slicks
Yet there are a lot of people here who will argue that the stock belts/seat are sufficient for DE...
Me, I think that if my car is reaching 150-170mph, I should have (and don't because it is a street car) a full cage and fire system.
I'm glad to see some clubs making mandatory rulings about seat/harness requirements. I also welcome the SA2005 ruling and think that it's a matter of time before getting into an "advanced" group may require a HANs or other safety equipment commitments...
We're overdue for "the big one" in an advanced DE run group where three or four cars get tangled in a bad situation...
Mike
Me, I think that if my car is reaching 150-170mph, I should have (and don't because it is a street car) a full cage and fire system.
I'm glad to see some clubs making mandatory rulings about seat/harness requirements. I also welcome the SA2005 ruling and think that it's a matter of time before getting into an "advanced" group may require a HANs or other safety equipment commitments...
We're overdue for "the big one" in an advanced DE run group where three or four cars get tangled in a bad situation...
Mike
