1Day

I know its considered a problem running FI, but is anyone around here doing this?

The thing is, my car will be a street car and I want that kick on the street(while maintaining streetability along with mpgs) when i want and at the same time take it to some HPDEs without having to worry about regular FI issues.

We all know GM used S/C on the ZR1 and accomplished the task without the regular issues. Is it an expensive task to do the same using regular vortech kit(with A&A kit bracket+intercooler upgrades)?

I want to be able to drive it on the street but also drive it on HPDEs without running into heat issues.

How do those STis and EVOs manage and why is it not recommended on corvettes?

Thanks

beerkat

When say FI I guess you mean Forced Induction of air either a turbo or a blower.

First from you other post I get the impression you have not done a HPDE before. So if that is the case you need to spend your money on instructed seat time and then more seat time.

1Day

Yes by FI, I meant forced induction, specifically a blower.

I have done 1 event so far and that was a fluke instance. I was looking to upgrade my car for street pleasure and sometimes hitting the strip.

Since i liked the HPDE experience as much and dont have 2 cars to separate for the 2 tasks, I was looking for advice on FI @ the road course.

As its going to be daily drivem, I didnt want to go H&C to reach about 550ish rwhp as it would make the drive difficult i feel. I totaly understand seat time is the best thing for DEs but because of that i dont want to delay my street fun. Thats why i am seeking help on this top.

I am not looking to up the power for the HPDEs for that i know i have plenty.

beerkat

What you do too your car for street will effect how it will run on a road course. IMO you would be better off doing headers and cam than putting on FI. From what little I have read cars that have add after market FI the engine tends to overheat before the end of a 20 min. session. Do a search on the subject there is lots of reading out there.

c4cruiser

There was a Vortec supercharger on my 02 6-speed coupe when I bought it. The package included a water-cooled intercooler, cold air intake (Breathless Performance unit) larger injectors and a SuperChips tune. It also has a Corsa Indy Pace Car cat-back system with X-pipe.

This package dyno'd at 443 HP at the rear wheels and 403 ft-lbs of torque on an otherwise stock LS1 motor. That puts the motor at around 510-520 HP depending on what percentage of power loss through the drivetrain is figured.

The car will turn quarter-mile times in the mid to high 11's and trap speed at 125 or so depending on whether I do everything right Like no 2 minute reaction times and not smoking the tires to deliver a 45 second 60 foot time.

The car runs very smoothly and the Corsa Indy exhaust is quiet at cruise speeds. It will consistently deliver mileage figures in the 32MPG range in 6th gear with cruise control on flat land.

A blower install can easily run in the $6000 area and higher depending on the type of system and any additional items like headers, your choice of exhaust system, and an ongoing supply of rear tires

You didnt say what year Vette you own, but if you are looking at just a blower system similar to what I have, 550 RWHP from just a blower could put a strain on the motor's lower end. Most blowers have levels of systems that deliver different amounts of boost (mine is 7 psi at 5000RPM). And if you hit the strip with slicks, you could be also putting a big strain on the driveline.

1Day

I have a C6 LS2. I was told a blower and headers was very easily for 600rwhp but i wasnt looking to go that high.

So did you ever go on a road course with it?

Wicked Weasel

we have customers running HPDEs and our ECS paxton kit.

BrianCunningham

I liked this one you were setting up for Open Road racing



I'm putting a Vortec on my LT1, so I guess I'll be finding out myself shortly.

HEAT is the #1 thing you need to worry about.

I've already installed a larger radiator.
I'll also be putting in an oil cooler.

69427

Brian is right. Heat is the major item to contend with. I've run a bunch of track days, and found out real quick that increased horsepower meant extra heat input into the coolant (cured with a DeWitt radiator), and extra speed from that horsepower tries to cook the brakes. (I'm still marginal now with the addition of increased airflow to the rotors, and some aero mods to try to suck more hot air out of the wheelwells.)
The up side of FI is bunches of horsepower but with the idle quality of a four door sedan.

VetteDrmr

There is another alternative to the FI equation, but it'll take some discipline on your part:

An adjustable boost controller. If you're on the track, dial the boost down to 0. If you're on the street or strip, dial it to taste.

You'll be down on power on the straights from what you'll be seeing at the strip, but if you think back to your first experience I bet you appreciated the straights just for a chance to breathe. Once you're in the corners you won't be able to you your normal engine's power, much less anything more.

It'll also help everything keep cooler.

HTH, and have a good one,
Mike

0corvette pilot

I had an early A&A kit on my C6. Whenever outside air temp was 80 or above, it would easily hit 280 on the oil and water temps in about 10 minutes. I understand the new intercooler design should alleviate this, and that others make kits that have been tracked, but I would highly recommend against it.

I ran at Barber, the engine got hot and the bearings went out in the supercharger. I had that replaced, also a new oil cooler and radiator, and the temps still climbed quickly. I have since removed the supercharger.

c4cruiser

The 02 has not seen track days (yet ) as I have an 87 that is my autocross/track day car. It only has about 300-310 HP with a mild cam, some head work and bored .030 over but thats good enough for speeds around 130 without engaging the OD unit (has a 4+3). The two tracks close to me (PIR in Portland and Pacific Raceways in Seattle) don't really have long straights and those track are not that long (about 2 miles)

With heat being an issue for a supercharged car doing track days, then I would expect that a larger radiator and an oil cooler would be good things to add.

But if you aren't considering HPDE's, then I don't think that forced induction would be too big of a problem for drag racing or street use. But of course that also depends on the weather conditions. Think Southern California in the heat of the summer. For drag racing you really do want the motor to be cool as possible for each round.

JSTAN

I am running an 02 Z06 with an IC Maggie pulling 10#'s of boost. The car makes a ton of low end torque, more than enough to get you in trouble if you have a heavy right foot.

Granted I live in the northeast and the times I ran the temps were between 50 F -80 F.

My oil and coolant temps were around:

OIL/Coolant
240/220

heavychevy

The problem with FI on corvette's is that the frontal area is very small, so there is already a low quantity of air getting to the radiator which cools the coolant and helps keep oil temps down etc.

When you put a Turbo or SC on the Corvette you end up blocking the air flow to the radiator with the intercooler. This is good for the FI, but bad for the overall heat issue. On top of that you have hot air coming from the turbos/sc as well making things hotter.

STI's have top mounted intercoolers, so they dont block the radiator, Evo's have very small intercoolers and much more open space to get adequate air to the Radiator. Porsche uses rear mounted intercoolers and dont block the radiators of which there are three on a Porsche.

On top of that they all have small displacement motors, with rather small turbos, and are engineered with turbocharging in mind, as is the ZR-1. But not everyone gets it right. Noble had problems with overheating, Ford GT, BMW 335's and many others. So it's not as easy as it may seem to make it work.

Some tuners may be able to get them to work, but it's a long road and lots of work to get compliance. I would completely vote against it if you are going to run DE's on a regular basis.

Heads/Cam/Exhaust/Tune will get you in the general area of an entry level supercharger kit, and will be much easier to make work and sound a ton better. That would be my first choice in your shoes (which I have been in).

But if you are determined, there are some intercooler and radiator relocation kits, along with tunnel scoops for the bottom of the car, and different coolants you can run (I.E. water wetter). Still a bit risky and will require some trial and error and will likely not be worth the hassle.

mikahb

$6,000 will buy a lot of seat time and I guarantee that on a road course you'll go faster and have a lot more fun with seat time than you will with FI and all the issues that come with it.

If you're building a street/strip car, then FI is a great option. But, don't forget to consider the fact that if you up the HP on the motor, you increase stress on everything else between the back of the engine and the ground. Lots of spendy parts there!

AU N EGL

Lots of HP is super sexy. But seldom lasts. a stock set up with a little old fashion but very relabel LS6 will get you lots and lots of care free track time.


Few years ago some guy came to an even. He had lots of HP and would fly by us all the time. However, he would only last 1/2 the session the first day, then he was out to cool off. Day two he packed up to go home as he had no more brakes.

Those of us with stock or slightly modified were doing lap after lap after lap. Session after session. day after day.

1Day

I agree with what most everyone is saying. There is no replacement for seat time on the track and also stock is plenty on the track.

But my Q really is, if I have 1 car which i want to have fun with on the track(not too many 4-5 events / yr) and on the street(daily driver), could it be possible with low amount of boost and some other work around?

If you dont push the setup to its limit and run conservative to be about 500-525 rwhp would it cause the same heat issues. Also like someone said, if foot control can be achieved and all you have to do is not push the car with pedal to the metal to run longer and not have heat issues then that would be awesome.

I called someone @ ECS and they told me its not advisable to have this setup, but considering my situation(few events in the year), i want to know if it will be too much of a problem? And if in the end i am doing too many events and want to go NA then i would just have to take a hit and sell the blower and get heads and cam, for now I am not too comfortable with the heads and cam sound on the street.

Also called MTI, they say their newer C6Z06 blower doesnt have the heat issues, but unfortunately they have it only for the Z06 right now and sell it as a pkg.

Anyhow lets see, i am still in the process of making a decision. So i guess there is really no one running a blower in HPDEs.

Or the other thing i could so is look @ fitting a LS7 into my base, thats an expensive jump but its NA anyone selling their LS7??

AU N EGL

take what ever you have to the track now. Run what you brung.

Then make a decision on which way to go.


For the most part we see very very few FI vettes at HPDEs

threewinmag

I did some research on this a few years ago when I was considering adding power. Someone here will undoubtedly call me a liar, but this is the reason I stayed away from forced injection stay naturally aspirated. HEAT! Pure and simple. Now, I know that there is plenty of heat generated from both systems in a race environment and that there are ways to handle both, but I felt that, even with an inter or after cooler, the more heat you sunk into the internals, the faster they would degrade and a rebuild would come sooner rather than later.

I'm not nieve enough to assume you won't be rebuilding both in a matter of time, but the research I did FOR MYSELF yielded more heat in the motor with forced injection than with natural aspiration.

By the way, I do about four or five track weekends a year and the rest of the time, it's a street car. And when I say "street car," that means I bring it out on the best of days and it stays clean. It's not a daily driver but it has nice street manners and good fuel efficiency.

my $ .02

68sixspeed

Are these HDPE temps? If so I'm curious on the cooling system, my cold air intake only c5 runs 230+ water and 285+ oil temps easy. I can't imagine what it would be like on a stock radiator with FI.