Anyone ever try vented surge for steering?
11-29-2008, 01:33 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Anyone ever try vented surge for steering?
I've replaced pumps and am about to replace my second rack and am wondering before I do that if anyone has tried something like this on our platform..
http://www.driftopia.com/2008/04/16/...ted-surge-box/
It basically, turns the existing rack into a manual unit by putting a vented surge reservoir in to keep fluid in and flowing and removing the pump.
btw.. I'm not under the impression that these components fail as often as mine have but I do know they will eventually when exposed to extensive track abuse. My second rack just wasn't as great a unit to begin with.
http://www.driftopia.com/2008/04/16/...ted-surge-box/
It basically, turns the existing rack into a manual unit by putting a vented surge reservoir in to keep fluid in and flowing and removing the pump.
btw.. I'm not under the impression that these components fail as often as mine have but I do know they will eventually when exposed to extensive track abuse. My second rack just wasn't as great a unit to begin with.
11-30-2008, 01:42 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
The link is to an article about converting a Toyota MR2 to manual
steering. I cannot speak with experience about the C5, but I do not
imagine that my C4 would be very pleasant to drive with manual
steering. How is your upper body strength?
If you decide that going manual is the answer, then using a surge
tank as the author suggests, instead of routing a hose directly
between the inlet & outlet ports of the steering rack may be a
preferable way of proceeding
My '89 has a remote reservior: the outlet side of the rack feeds
into a cooler and then to a nipple on the side of the reservior. The
outlet on the bottom of the reservior is routed to the pump inlet.
This flow could be redirected to the inlet port of the rack to bypass
the pump.
To what do you attribute the pump and rack failures experienced
to date? Heat, excessive pump speed, dirt, loads ...
.
steering. I cannot speak with experience about the C5, but I do not
imagine that my C4 would be very pleasant to drive with manual
steering. How is your upper body strength?
If you decide that going manual is the answer, then using a surge
tank as the author suggests, instead of routing a hose directly
between the inlet & outlet ports of the steering rack may be a
preferable way of proceeding
My '89 has a remote reservior: the outlet side of the rack feeds
into a cooler and then to a nipple on the side of the reservior. The
outlet on the bottom of the reservior is routed to the pump inlet.
This flow could be redirected to the inlet port of the rack to bypass
the pump.
To what do you attribute the pump and rack failures experienced
to date? Heat, excessive pump speed, dirt, loads ...
.
11-30-2008, 02:13 AM
#3
Racer
The surge tank is an interesting idea but it isn't the easiest or the best solution for converting to manual steering.
The easiest solution is just to connect the inlet and outlet of the rack. This can be done in no time, costs almost nothing, and feels almost as good as a true manual rack. Personally I think the surge tank idea may actually feel worse than this.
The best way to convert to manual steering is to remove the rack and have it rebuilt. When it's apart there will be a center seal on the inner shaft. Just leave this seal off, grease the rack with manual rack lube, and plug up the inlet and outlet. You have just created a true manual steering rack. This costs $100-125.
I agree with slalom that a vette with manual steering is going to be a major pita to live with. Another thing to consider is that the steering effort is going to be higher than even a normal manual steering car because you are going to keep the faster power steering ratio with no assist. Unless this is a trailered track only car I wouldn't even think about it and even then I'm not sure...
The easiest solution is just to connect the inlet and outlet of the rack. This can be done in no time, costs almost nothing, and feels almost as good as a true manual rack. Personally I think the surge tank idea may actually feel worse than this.
The best way to convert to manual steering is to remove the rack and have it rebuilt. When it's apart there will be a center seal on the inner shaft. Just leave this seal off, grease the rack with manual rack lube, and plug up the inlet and outlet. You have just created a true manual steering rack. This costs $100-125.
I agree with slalom that a vette with manual steering is going to be a major pita to live with. Another thing to consider is that the steering effort is going to be higher than even a normal manual steering car because you are going to keep the faster power steering ratio with no assist. Unless this is a trailered track only car I wouldn't even think about it and even then I'm not sure...
11-30-2008, 12:20 PM
#4
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Thanks guys for the responses... I kinda had an idea going full manual wasn't going to be "nice" but after coming across that article it had me thinking that maybe it was worth trying. Thanks for the info on converting it to a true manual. When I get in there to rebuild this bad rack, if it's really bad it may just lose that seal. 
Slalom4me:
I really can't say for sure why the first rack failed but it was right after I ran some wide wheels up front. At the time I didn't have a cooler in place and hadn't gone to the TurnOne pump yet. So, the answer for that one is "all of the above, almost and double on the heat"
. The second rack, was a second-hand unit which, I'm assuming, wasn't the healthiest to begin with since it happened right away and in normal street driving.
Since I've got the cooling and the reduction in place, I'll just get another rack in place and pray this one stays good for a while.
Slalom4me:
I really can't say for sure why the first rack failed but it was right after I ran some wide wheels up front. At the time I didn't have a cooler in place and hadn't gone to the TurnOne pump yet. So, the answer for that one is "all of the above, almost and double on the heat"
. The second rack, was a second-hand unit which, I'm assuming, wasn't the healthiest to begin with since it happened right away and in normal street driving. Since I've got the cooling and the reduction in place, I'll just get another rack in place and pray this one stays good for a while.
11-30-2008, 07:38 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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it is critical to flush the system several times when you replace the rack. 9 outa ten times this is main cause for new rack failure.
i recommend a turn one power steering pump. should solve all your problems. plus a larger cooler will help too.
also........Redline power steering fluid is the best!
i recommend a turn one power steering pump. should solve all your problems. plus a larger cooler will help too.
also........Redline power steering fluid is the best!
12-01-2008, 04:41 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
Although it appears to be off the table, a thought in favour of using
a surge tank as part of a manual conversion is that the tank allows
air to bleed out the fluid and gives the fluid room to expand when
heated.
I agree with rustyguns about measures to flush the system. The
power steering fluid is not considered a maintenance item and my
vote is that this contributes to shortened component life.
Another thought is to install a remote filter for a time. I am unsure
how practical this is for a C5, but when I made changes to the
steering on an '89, I sourced an inexpensive in-line oil filter head and
filter from the hydraulics dept of a CDN chain that is similar to Harbor
Freight in the US.
Picture a small version of a remote engine oil filter set-up. Mine
has 3/8" NPT ports and is rated for a max flow of 7 GPM return
(2 GPM suction). The matching Donaldson filter has a 10 micron
rating and is 3.4" tall. Total cost for the head and filter - $16 USD.
The filter head was plumbed into the low pressure return line just
ahead of the OEM surge tank. I left it in place for a few hundred
miles and then removed it for an event as a precaution.
.
a surge tank as part of a manual conversion is that the tank allows
air to bleed out the fluid and gives the fluid room to expand when
heated.
I agree with rustyguns about measures to flush the system. The
power steering fluid is not considered a maintenance item and my
vote is that this contributes to shortened component life.
Another thought is to install a remote filter for a time. I am unsure
how practical this is for a C5, but when I made changes to the
steering on an '89, I sourced an inexpensive in-line oil filter head and
filter from the hydraulics dept of a CDN chain that is similar to Harbor
Freight in the US.
Picture a small version of a remote engine oil filter set-up. Mine
has 3/8" NPT ports and is rated for a max flow of 7 GPM return
(2 GPM suction). The matching Donaldson filter has a 10 micron
rating and is 3.4" tall. Total cost for the head and filter - $16 USD.
The filter head was plumbed into the low pressure return line just
ahead of the OEM surge tank. I left it in place for a few hundred
miles and then removed it for an event as a precaution.
.