ghoffman

When people do at least HPDE's I think they have alot more car control skills. When you want a pilot's license, they make you demonstrate that you can control a spin. People around here drive like total crap and have no idea what to do when the car is sideways. We had a 59 car pile up yesterday (thank god no one was seriously hurt) near me and I have to wonder if the first person that crashed and started it would have lost it if he/she had had some HPDE training. I mean, it is not uncommon to have snow in NH in January! What do you think?
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/...3.pile.up.whdh

FRCTony

Doesn't matter how much car control skill you have when you have a cup of coffee in one hand and a cell phone in the other...

Mjolitor 68

I was driving down to Homestead in my Z last weekend on the FL Turnpike doing about 75 minding my own business, I get in R lane to get by some slower traffic

Theres a pickup w a trailer and a boat on the back 30 feet in front, I dont tailgate, thank God

So genius in the pickup leaves a 4 ft long cooler filled w ice & beers in the boat which then decides to fly at 75 mph w me right behind it and a column of 4 cars on my left

Luckily we were near the top of an on ramp

I saw that cooler fly and the ice and cans start pouring out and I swerved HARD right and was practically on the on ramp

Some noob probably would have panicked and had the cooler come through the windshield or locked up the brakes and have the cooler land on them Then cause a pile up

Drivers ed in the USA is criminally bad

BTW the Z did not get hit by even 1 ice cube and I made it down to Homestead to engage in "dangerous driving"

No flying ice coolers on the track though

Z06Fix

I will never forget my drivers ed teacher telling me how to merge on to the interstate: "go up the ramp about 30mph then as you are able to see traffic apply your brakes and slow down so you can find a hole" He about freaked when I floored the car up the ramp and merged right in with traffic at 70mph. I see people trying to get onto the interstate at well under traffic speed all the time and think to myself: "yep they got an A in drivers ed "


I know for a fact that HPDE's and Autox has made me a better street driver. I'm more aware of my surroundings and I don't push the car on the street anymore. I can get it all out on the track now

Jim 47

Gray:

I'm afraid that there are too many unknowns and independent variables in the equation to give an accurate answer to your question. Would any kind of driver education help a driver to be a better driver and better control his/her vehical? YES, probably, but depending upon the person and the state of their gray matter, there is no guarantee that education would make a person a better driver.

I've had students at HPDE events that defied being educated. I was convinced that no amount of coaching, counceling, hand holding, or tough love would make an iota of difference in their driving skill level. Other students have amazed me in their ability to capture the basics and apply them intelligently. They are the ones who listen and learn and show steady improvement as they gain seat time and experience in a steady step by step process of gaining knowledge, applying it, and sensing the result. These are the ones who can be positively educated, and who, at the end of the day you are very proud of.

I'm for any type of driver education that will get peoople to focus their attention and thoughts on driving their car safely in an ever changing environment. To me the race track is a great venue to narrow down the variables and allow the student focus on the specific elements of car control and along with the class room teaching, put their understanding of vehicle dynamics into practice in a controlled manor, on the track. It's a great teaching and learning venue. I guess that's why I still do it.

Some of the comments that I read here disturb me. It appears that to some, the HPDE is a venue to impress fellow participants and determine the top speed of their vehicle. They begruging go to the classroom sessions, or don't go at all, and then complain that the instructor is inadequate. You have asked an excellent question Gary. I hope it triggers all who are really interested in improving their driving skills at HPDE events to reevalue their mental attitude and use these events to elevate their skills and abilities.

Jim Helm

Higgs Boson

I started racing karts at 8 yrs old and it taught me to handle adverse conditions with a moderate heart rate, pick smarter lines, and overall be able to take better care of myself and car on the road. However, it hurts me when everyone else on the road does not practice the same driving logic as I do and I become the odd man out. It's one of those things where I am technically or practically correct but because everyone else is wrong, I become the one in error (not that there are errors occurring, but you know what I mean)...

Jim 47

You make an excellent point. I totally agree with you.

0Randy@DRM

I'm a bad driver on the roads. Too fast, push too hard in the corners, always sideways in the snow-ice. But somehow I never seem to hit anyone. I did get pulled over during the weekend They don't like cars in the snowmobile ditches. Even if that ditch is mine. I own the land on both sides of the road, but the man owns a couple feet on each side.

Randy

gkmccready

I think drivers who have had to deal with snow and ice in the winter all their lives are quicker studies at autocross and HPDE when car control counts... does that help? :-) When I moved to California I was floored that everybody starts driving either way too slow, or way too fast in the rain. The slow folks drive like it's a blizzard out. The fast guys don't understand that stopping distances in the wet are not the same as in the dry...

Everett Ogilvie

Gary, I think drivers with skills have a much better chance of avoiding certain situations, but unfortunately even a very skilled driver can be taken out by the unskilled general public.....

VetteDrmr

Gary,

The only real advantage I think autocross/DEs give you is experience in concentration. I've had my share of stuff fly out at me, and I've dodged some and plowed into some, primarily based on the amount of time I had to react. One time I whacked a rolled-up piece of carpet at night right over the crest of the hill. I didn't even hit the brakes, and thinking back on it, it was because I knew I couldn't "avoid the cone". After that upset, I came upon the 2nd and 3rd pieces of carpet/padding which I whacked as well.

Can you say STOOPID????

In TX parents can teach their kids driver's ed. My son and daughter got all the basics, plus night cross-country, driving while fatigued, and rain (which in TX can be almost as slick as driving in snow when it hasn't rained in a while). So far they've had their little bumps and dents, but nothing serious.

Have a good one,
Mike

waddisme

I am more nervous on the way to HPDEs than at them. However, doing HPDEs does quench that need for me to drive my car hard on the highways. I already know how fast is goes, how it accelerates, how it handles and brakes. I basically drive like a woman until track days. That being said, I am in need of a track day fix soon.

Burnsey

I recently messed up an otherwise spotless driving record when I rear-ended a very nice lady on the highway.

Traffic was, per usual, speeding up to 65mph, then back down to 10, then back up to 50, then stopping...etc etc...I saw her brake lights come on, and the nose of her truck drop, so I braked lightly and used up my ~3 car lengths of space to avoid being rear-ended myself. Well, I misjudged her rate of deceleartion and POW! The hood of my daily driver met her rear-bumper support...

Although I'm just an average Autocrosser, I was very disappointed in myself. I fixated on her bumper and drove right into it. I should have known better - EYES LEAD HANDS!

Dear old Dad put things in perspective: when you're in the starting box, with your helmet on, you're 1000% focused on what you're about to do. The trick is to stay THAT focused during your daily grind to the office, or after 5 hours of interstate driving, etc etc.

So, while racing/autocross gives you the skills and experience, they're no good to you if you don't focus!

Perhaps, with more experience, those skills will become second nature...

Red Gump

bottom line: it is too easy in this country to obtain and keep a license. should be more expensive and/or require more training. and maintenance testing. racing licenses have to be renewed/maintained, same should apply to drivers license.

mgarfias

I don't know that we make better drivers across the board. We do make better descisions when we're awake and concentrating, but even so, we can get bit now and then. Of course, driving a faster/more responsive car on the street gives you an advantage in avoiding accidents that other drivers don't have, even with the same reflexes. I know its easier to stay ahead of conditions in my Z than it is in the wife's WRX, or my pickup truck.

rustyguns

get about 50% of the idiots off the road. but..... car drivers are a huge market and God knows we need people to buy cars and car stuff to keep all the 1000's of auto businesses going. So this will never happen!

PS i was in Germany and it is very expensive($2.000 dollars) and very hard to get a license ( several tests) and I drove all over that country for a month and never saw an accident. Amazin' !

So it does work

Plus......we have 2 to 12 accidents daily here in Phoenix AZ. Horrible drivers and a bunch of unlicensed, no insurance driving illegal aliens

LOS ANGELES PI

All I can say for myself is that track time has made me a slower driver on the road and a much more defensive driver.

Situational awareness is the big payoff.

vettedan

Gary,
How far was this from your place.
Dan

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/...3.pile.up.whdh

StArrow68

As noted above, rain, especially hard rain can be slick as ice. Had my AH come on once when I first owned the '02 in a hard rain so I know that light weight and wide tires can be a bad mix. That was even before I took a lot of driving classes. The awareness you get from driving classes with good instructors is bound to help and I have been able to miss a few incidents because of that awareness.
Crazy one lately was going down hill out of Caldecott Tunnel, west in a driving rain and I was in left lane at about 60. Going by econobox doing 55 and a big Pickup closes quickly and I made the effort to get over to the right after clearing the econo box by enough that the truck wouldn't try that space. Well, as I look back the truck is accelerating and I glance left mirror and all I see is right rear wheel sideways with his nose pointed at the center divider and sure enough he lets up on brakes and just kisses the wall with his front bumper, spins as I'm leaving and by then the hard rain covers up any view. There was a CHP less than 1/4 mile down on the right cleaning up another mess. I will always wonder if the front hydroplaned due to speed or he broke loose the rear due to too much pedal. Really a lame move on a luckily mostly empty freeway when we hadn't seen rain in at least a month.
Most SUVs and Minivans are bouncing ***** waiting to happen and people are clueless. Then they wonder why their kids get into accidents and never think that maybe they really were watching when dad/mom were driving.
Randy

davidfarmer

It certainly makes you a better driver, but unfortunately being a "safer" driver is more a state of mind than a skill.

I personally drive the speed limit, use turn signals, yield to pedestrians, STOP at stopsigns, and always allow plenty of time to get to my destination etc. I have been this way since my late 20's, and am expecially so now that I have young children. I also tend to think that I get my need-for-speed out of my system at the track.

However, I know other racers that drive like racers all the time, no matter the condition or traffic. While they certainly have the skills to handle the car, I don't think anyone can predict what traffic conditions are going to throw at them. I don't care who you are, driving too fast or too close on the street isn't safe for anyone.

Bottom line......I don't think it really changes the attitudes of most drivers, and that's what makes us safe.