LG Coil Over Choice
08-15-2009, 12:37 AM
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LG Coil Over Choice
Hi Everyone!
I posted this in C6 Z06 but I guess I'd probably get some good information here as well.
I recently bought a C6 Z06 and I want to start doing some HPDE's. I went to the Spring Mountain School and I'm addicted!
I'm ready to pull the trigger on some coil overs and I've been looking at LG's offerings. Here is the information on the different systems:
FROM LG's website:
G2
Bilstein is at the top of the heap in shock technology world wide. Their nitrogen filled separate chamber technology has been the standard of the shock industry for years. It was only a short time ago that the technology was allowed to be duplicated.
We have used these Aluminum Body Bilstein Shocks as the core of our Coil Over package for years now. The valving was dialed in by Lou and Bilstein shock engineers on the track and on the street.
We Built valving for street cars and for the race car. Of course most of you know the success that we had on track with the Bilstein/LG Coil Over package, winning races against some tough teams and drivers.
Our Coil over package that we have been building for over 8 years for the Corvette uses the best and highest quality Hypercoil springs. I know that the Corvette Market would accept nothing less than the best, so Hypercoil was our choice.
Combine the Bilstein Aluminum Nitrogen Filled Coil Over shock with the Hypercoil Springs and we have a premium coil over package that is race tested, race winning and street proven.
Our Pricing is less than 1/2 of a similar Moton or Penske package with equal performance as shown on the Race track. And our pricing is only slightly higher than the heavier steel coil overs. And for the street, we apologize for giving you more than you need. But at LG Motorsports we consider that "Value".
Here are some questions that you should ask when getting any Coil over package:
1. What material is the shock made of? Is is heavy steel or aluminum?
2. Is it Gas filled with a separate gas chamber? Because if it is not separate, the shock oil will trap air bubbles and reduce and change the effectiveness of the shock with each stroke of the shock.
3. What Brand of spring is being used? Hypercoil, Eibach, or some off brand with no name. The no name springs will sag and take a set, where the Hypercoil springs do not. They are "Pre Stressed" and blanchard ground top quality wire to insure that their installed height does not change.
4. Does the shock length cause it to bottom out when it is loaded in a corner? We took the time to have Bilstein build our LG Shock to our custom length so there is no chance of the shock bottoming under loading. If a shock bottoms, the effective spring rate goes to infinity and the tire is now the only "shock" absorber in the suspension. Obviously this is not a good thing.
5. Adjustability? Adjustable shocks work well for Drag racing because you need a 90/10 shock for the front and a 50/50 for the rear to promote weight transfer. But for all other applications, you need a tuned and balanced shock spring package that work in harmony. The ***** on the shock work well when you change your spring rate but if your springs are already correct for the shock then you will take the shock out of the range of the spring if you are just turning *****.
In other words: The rebound of the shock IS determined by the spring rate. The rebound rate is what is acting against the spring pressure. If you change the spring rate, you MUST change the rebound rate of the shock because a heavier spring rate will push the shock open quicker or similarly a lighter spring will not be able to over come the rebound in the shock and tend to "hang" the wheel up and reduce the tire contact time. So they both work together, and if you just change the shock rate with a **** without changing the springs to match the shock change, then you have just taken your shock/spring package out of "harmony" and it will not work as designed.
Our Shock/Spring package was developed by me at LG Motorsports in conjunction with the highly skilled engineers from Bilstein. We at LG Motorsports have nurtured our racing contacts to be able to carry that technology into the street products that we build.
GT2
At LG Motorsports our saying is: 'We Race - You Win' and that is why we built the product that we have here.
We have always had our G2 Bilstein/Hyperco coil-over shock package, but many of our customers wanted an adjustable shock, so we went to work to make a first-class package just the way I would want it for a race car without welding new mounts in place. This is what we came up with and we did it with no compromises. There are other coil overs out there but they are full of compromises. We did our best to avoid the compromises.
We have a spherical bearing set up on our shocks in all mounting locations other than the bottom of the rear shock "Fork" mount. We did this because of the precision that the bearing offers. Precise and smooth operation that does not interfere with the shock function.
Spherical bearings are the best option for coil-over mounts. Rubber mounts cause a "Trampoline" effect that must be overcome before the shock can actually work. Rubber also changes the spring rate momentarily until fully compressed. In addition, rubber causes side loads in the shock rod and will eventually damage the shaft.
Plastic or Delrin eliminates the "rubber/trampoline" effect, but it introduces new friction that interferes with the operation of the shocks. Forces are forces and the friction involved in a Delrin/plastic mounting system introduces "Hysteresis" losses that interfere with your shock operation.
There are some contridictions between the 2 products and I'm confused?? The first is this:
"5. Adjustability? Adjustable shocks work well for Drag racing because you need a 90/10 shock for the front and a 50/50 for the rear to promote weight transfer. But for all other applications, you need a tuned and balanced shock spring package that work in harmony. The ***** on the shock work well when you change your spring rate but if your springs are already correct for the shock then you will take the shock out of the range of the spring if you are just turning *****.
In other words: The rebound of the shock IS determined by the spring rate. The rebound rate is what is acting against the spring pressure. If you change the spring rate, you MUST change the rebound rate of the shock because a heavier spring rate will push the shock open quicker or similarly a lighter spring will not be able to over come the rebound in the shock and tend to "hang" the wheel up and reduce the tire contact time. So they both work together, and if you just change the shock rate with a **** without changing the springs to match the shock change, then you have just taken your shock/spring package out of "harmony" and it will not work as designed."
So is the LG2 for drag racing only? I want adjustable shocks so I can change them for different track conditions; they must not work for road racing or HPDE's?
The next thing I want to ask about the LG2's is this:
From LG Website
Here are some questions that I'd like to ask LG about the LG2 Coil over package:
1. What material is the LG2 shock made of? Is is heavy steel or aluminum?
2. Is the LG2 Gas filled with a separate gas chamber? Because if it is not separate, the shock oil will trap air bubbles and reduce and change the effectiveness of the shock with each stroke of the shock.
3. What Brand of spring is being used? Hypercoil, Eibach, or some off brand with no name. The no name springs will sag and take a set, where the Hypercoil springs do not. They are "Pre Stressed" and blanchard ground top quality wire to insure that their installed height does not change.
4. Does the shock length cause it to bottom out when it is loaded in a corner? We took the time to have Bilstein build our LG Shock to our custom length so there is no chance of the shock bottoming under loading. If a shock bottoms, the effective spring rate goes to infinity and the tire is now the only "shock" absorber in the suspension. Obviously this is not a good thing.
5. Adjustability? Adjustable shocks work well for Drag racing because you need a 90/10 shock for the front and a 50/50 for the rear to promote weight transfer. But for all other applications, you need a tuned and balanced shock spring package that work in harmony. The ***** on the shock work well when you change your spring rate but if your springs are already correct for the shock then you will take the shock out of the range of the spring if you are just turning *****.
In other words: The rebound of the shock IS determined by the spring rate. The rebound rate is what is acting against the spring pressure. If you change the spring rate, you MUST change the rebound rate of the shock because a heavier spring rate will push the shock open quicker or similarly a lighter spring will not be able to over come the rebound in the shock and tend to "hang" the wheel up and reduce the tire contact time. So they both work together, and if you just change the shock rate with a **** without changing the springs to match the shock change, then you have just taken your shock/spring package out of "harmony" and it will not work as designed.
I was going to buy these until I read this. What are my other options? I like Penske's but they are expensive and I want to be able to adjust them. I'd appreciate some help in choosing a good shock for HPDE's.
I posted this in C6 Z06 but I guess I'd probably get some good information here as well.
I recently bought a C6 Z06 and I want to start doing some HPDE's. I went to the Spring Mountain School and I'm addicted!
I'm ready to pull the trigger on some coil overs and I've been looking at LG's offerings. Here is the information on the different systems:
FROM LG's website:
G2
Bilstein is at the top of the heap in shock technology world wide. Their nitrogen filled separate chamber technology has been the standard of the shock industry for years. It was only a short time ago that the technology was allowed to be duplicated.
We have used these Aluminum Body Bilstein Shocks as the core of our Coil Over package for years now. The valving was dialed in by Lou and Bilstein shock engineers on the track and on the street.
We Built valving for street cars and for the race car. Of course most of you know the success that we had on track with the Bilstein/LG Coil Over package, winning races against some tough teams and drivers.
Our Coil over package that we have been building for over 8 years for the Corvette uses the best and highest quality Hypercoil springs. I know that the Corvette Market would accept nothing less than the best, so Hypercoil was our choice.
Combine the Bilstein Aluminum Nitrogen Filled Coil Over shock with the Hypercoil Springs and we have a premium coil over package that is race tested, race winning and street proven.
Our Pricing is less than 1/2 of a similar Moton or Penske package with equal performance as shown on the Race track. And our pricing is only slightly higher than the heavier steel coil overs. And for the street, we apologize for giving you more than you need. But at LG Motorsports we consider that "Value".
Here are some questions that you should ask when getting any Coil over package:
1. What material is the shock made of? Is is heavy steel or aluminum?
2. Is it Gas filled with a separate gas chamber? Because if it is not separate, the shock oil will trap air bubbles and reduce and change the effectiveness of the shock with each stroke of the shock.
3. What Brand of spring is being used? Hypercoil, Eibach, or some off brand with no name. The no name springs will sag and take a set, where the Hypercoil springs do not. They are "Pre Stressed" and blanchard ground top quality wire to insure that their installed height does not change.
4. Does the shock length cause it to bottom out when it is loaded in a corner? We took the time to have Bilstein build our LG Shock to our custom length so there is no chance of the shock bottoming under loading. If a shock bottoms, the effective spring rate goes to infinity and the tire is now the only "shock" absorber in the suspension. Obviously this is not a good thing.
5. Adjustability? Adjustable shocks work well for Drag racing because you need a 90/10 shock for the front and a 50/50 for the rear to promote weight transfer. But for all other applications, you need a tuned and balanced shock spring package that work in harmony. The ***** on the shock work well when you change your spring rate but if your springs are already correct for the shock then you will take the shock out of the range of the spring if you are just turning *****.
In other words: The rebound of the shock IS determined by the spring rate. The rebound rate is what is acting against the spring pressure. If you change the spring rate, you MUST change the rebound rate of the shock because a heavier spring rate will push the shock open quicker or similarly a lighter spring will not be able to over come the rebound in the shock and tend to "hang" the wheel up and reduce the tire contact time. So they both work together, and if you just change the shock rate with a **** without changing the springs to match the shock change, then you have just taken your shock/spring package out of "harmony" and it will not work as designed.
Our Shock/Spring package was developed by me at LG Motorsports in conjunction with the highly skilled engineers from Bilstein. We at LG Motorsports have nurtured our racing contacts to be able to carry that technology into the street products that we build.
GT2
At LG Motorsports our saying is: 'We Race - You Win' and that is why we built the product that we have here.
We have always had our G2 Bilstein/Hyperco coil-over shock package, but many of our customers wanted an adjustable shock, so we went to work to make a first-class package just the way I would want it for a race car without welding new mounts in place. This is what we came up with and we did it with no compromises. There are other coil overs out there but they are full of compromises. We did our best to avoid the compromises.
We have a spherical bearing set up on our shocks in all mounting locations other than the bottom of the rear shock "Fork" mount. We did this because of the precision that the bearing offers. Precise and smooth operation that does not interfere with the shock function.
Spherical bearings are the best option for coil-over mounts. Rubber mounts cause a "Trampoline" effect that must be overcome before the shock can actually work. Rubber also changes the spring rate momentarily until fully compressed. In addition, rubber causes side loads in the shock rod and will eventually damage the shaft.
Plastic or Delrin eliminates the "rubber/trampoline" effect, but it introduces new friction that interferes with the operation of the shocks. Forces are forces and the friction involved in a Delrin/plastic mounting system introduces "Hysteresis" losses that interfere with your shock operation.
There are some contridictions between the 2 products and I'm confused?? The first is this:
"5. Adjustability? Adjustable shocks work well for Drag racing because you need a 90/10 shock for the front and a 50/50 for the rear to promote weight transfer. But for all other applications, you need a tuned and balanced shock spring package that work in harmony. The ***** on the shock work well when you change your spring rate but if your springs are already correct for the shock then you will take the shock out of the range of the spring if you are just turning *****.
In other words: The rebound of the shock IS determined by the spring rate. The rebound rate is what is acting against the spring pressure. If you change the spring rate, you MUST change the rebound rate of the shock because a heavier spring rate will push the shock open quicker or similarly a lighter spring will not be able to over come the rebound in the shock and tend to "hang" the wheel up and reduce the tire contact time. So they both work together, and if you just change the shock rate with a **** without changing the springs to match the shock change, then you have just taken your shock/spring package out of "harmony" and it will not work as designed."
So is the LG2 for drag racing only? I want adjustable shocks so I can change them for different track conditions; they must not work for road racing or HPDE's?
The next thing I want to ask about the LG2's is this:
From LG Website
Here are some questions that I'd like to ask LG about the LG2 Coil over package:
1. What material is the LG2 shock made of? Is is heavy steel or aluminum?
2. Is the LG2 Gas filled with a separate gas chamber? Because if it is not separate, the shock oil will trap air bubbles and reduce and change the effectiveness of the shock with each stroke of the shock.
3. What Brand of spring is being used? Hypercoil, Eibach, or some off brand with no name. The no name springs will sag and take a set, where the Hypercoil springs do not. They are "Pre Stressed" and blanchard ground top quality wire to insure that their installed height does not change.
4. Does the shock length cause it to bottom out when it is loaded in a corner? We took the time to have Bilstein build our LG Shock to our custom length so there is no chance of the shock bottoming under loading. If a shock bottoms, the effective spring rate goes to infinity and the tire is now the only "shock" absorber in the suspension. Obviously this is not a good thing.
5. Adjustability? Adjustable shocks work well for Drag racing because you need a 90/10 shock for the front and a 50/50 for the rear to promote weight transfer. But for all other applications, you need a tuned and balanced shock spring package that work in harmony. The ***** on the shock work well when you change your spring rate but if your springs are already correct for the shock then you will take the shock out of the range of the spring if you are just turning *****.
In other words: The rebound of the shock IS determined by the spring rate. The rebound rate is what is acting against the spring pressure. If you change the spring rate, you MUST change the rebound rate of the shock because a heavier spring rate will push the shock open quicker or similarly a lighter spring will not be able to over come the rebound in the shock and tend to "hang" the wheel up and reduce the tire contact time. So they both work together, and if you just change the shock rate with a **** without changing the springs to match the shock change, then you have just taken your shock/spring package out of "harmony" and it will not work as designed.
I was going to buy these until I read this. What are my other options? I like Penske's but they are expensive and I want to be able to adjust them. I'd appreciate some help in choosing a good shock for HPDE's.
Last edited by VetteRacer725; 08-15-2009 at 01:12 AM.
08-15-2009, 12:54 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
It was a little hard to read your post and tell what you were writing and what was from LG's website. However, I think your confusion arises because LG's first coilover setup uses non-adjustable bilstien shocks that are matched to the coil springs. These are proven roadcourse coilovers and they were arguing the merits of non-adjustable shocks in the product description. Then, simply due to customer demand (I assume), they came up with some coilovers with adjustable shocks to compete with other vendors. These are also for roadcourses and I'm sure they are a great product as well. Your other choices would be Pfadt coilovers which are adjustable along with DRM, Penske, Moton, and others. There are several threads on this topic if you search. Most importantly, congrats on your C6Z and welcome to the track addiction 
.
.
08-15-2009, 01:19 AM
#3
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It was a little hard to read your post and tell what you were writing and what was from LG's website. However, I think your confusion arises because LG's first coilover setup uses non-adjustable bilstien shocks that are matched to the coil springs. These are proven roadcourse coilovers and they were arguing the merits of non-adjustable shocks in the product description. Then, simply due to customer demand (I assume), they came up with some coilovers with adjustable shocks to compete with other vendors. These are also for roadcourses and I'm sure they are a great product as well. Your other choices would be Pfadt coilovers which are adjustable along with DRM, Penske, Moton, and others. There are several threads on this topic if you search. Most importantly, congrats on your C6Z and welcome to the track addiction .
.I want adjustable but the 2 descriptions confused me. Penske and Moton are out of my price range right now and I've heard a lot of good things about DRM but they aren't adjustable.
I'll have to check out the Pfadt units. Thanks for the advise and the welcome! I'm sure my wife is going to love it!
08-15-2009, 08:47 AM
#4
Team Owner
It was a little bunched up for sure! I appreciate your response!
I want adjustable but the 2 descriptions confused me. Penske and Moton are out of my price range right now and I've heard a lot of good things about DRM but they aren't adjustable.
I'll have to check out the Pfadt units. Thanks for the advise and the welcome! I'm sure my wife is going to love it!
I want adjustable but the 2 descriptions confused me. Penske and Moton are out of my price range right now and I've heard a lot of good things about DRM but they aren't adjustable.
I'll have to check out the Pfadt units. Thanks for the advise and the welcome! I'm sure my wife is going to love it!
08-15-2009, 12:46 PM
#5
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http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...6b61aff64255cf
They now have adjustable coilover kits...Very nice quality!
They now have adjustable coilover kits...Very nice quality!
08-15-2009, 01:05 PM
#6
Safety Car
So... why do you want adjustable shocks? I've always put adjustable shocks on when I upgraded my cars. I did that with the C6, too, and put on used Penske coilovers. I ended up taking the Penskes off and putting on the DRM coilovers and I have been more than happy with them... so much so I have never even wished for an adjuster. Their combination of spring rates and valving simply works.
08-15-2009, 09:22 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
I have the G2s on my C5 and I find them to be a great all around shock - on both the track and the street. In fact I like them better on the street than the stock Z51 suspension I had. I'm familiar with adjustables, had them on my Mustang. I was a bit concerned about not having the adjustability with the G2s but they had so many good reviews I decided to try them and I love them, great product.
08-15-2009, 09:50 PM
#8
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So... why do you want adjustable shocks? I've always put adjustable shocks on when I upgraded my cars. I did that with the C6, too, and put on used Penske coilovers. I ended up taking the Penskes off and putting on the DRM coilovers and I have been more than happy with them... so much so I have never even wished for an adjuster. Their combination of spring rates and valving simply works.
I however dont think I received properly matched spring rates/valving with my Penskes so my raceshop and I had to experiment with different spring rates (out of my pocket of course) to get to where I am right now. Now that its dialed in to what I think is 95% I actually dont want to be doing adjustments.
Bottom line is I think if I had to do it again, I'd get the GT2s - put the setting on 6 as Lou suggest and run those all day long and if the need arises to adjust, you have that option
Lou, if you read this... what spring rates would you run on the C5 using your G2's or GT2's??
Last edited by GettReal; 08-15-2009 at 09:54 PM.
08-16-2009, 03:22 AM
#9
I recently bought a C6 Z06 and I want to start doing some HPDE's. I went to the Spring Mountain School and I'm addicted!
08-16-2009, 10:15 AM
#10
Safety Car
invest into more track days. it will be a long time before you will get any actual benefit from upgrading your suspension. the car can do a lot more right now than you can, and improving the capabilities of the car even further will give you no benefit until you are able to use them fully.
save your money for better brake pads
08-16-2009, 11:21 PM
#11
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St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Here is what I wrote on another thread about the same subject.
Hope this helps.
LG
-----------------------------------------
Hi Guys,
I am out of town at the ALMS race (not racing) trying to solidify my deal for Petit with our car.
To answer your question, there is more than one reason. Price is one of them and if you want adjustability.
If you are going to do mainly track racing, and you plan on lowering it to be better on track, then you just have to make the Price decision.
I have run on both sets on track. Bilstein shocks have their own feel to them. I have run other shocks and really have never had a shock that feels like a Bilstein, mainly over bumps.
All of our package use GM T1 sway bars. they work as intended so don't be fooled by "widgets" that just look good but don't really work as intended with regard to sway bars.
OK-- If money was no object, and road racing was the only use ever, then I would run the bilsteins for a couple of reasons. (on a street car)
I already know that the valving is where I set it when we did our testing. So for road racing only, I would not change them. (not the case if you plan on drag racing)
And if I was not going to adjust them, then the Bilsteins are a racing shock and that would be my choice.
If price OR multiple use is the objective AND you might go to the drag strip, or road race track OR take a long over the road trip...Then the adjustable shocks are the answer.
Technically, we had our new Adjustable shocks built with our Bilstein valving set in the middle of the adjuster. Position 6 out of 12 is equal to our Bilstein Valving.
Other differences are that the Bilstein shock bodies are Aluminum and lighter, and they are built to be mounted upside down. Less overall weight and less unsprung weight with the bilstein shocks.
the Adjustable shocks use steel bodies but really nice billet aluminum parts everywhere else.
BOTH shock packages have NO RUBBER mounts, and spherical bearings everywhere. RUBBER or hard grinding plastic is not acceptable in a performance shock.
On position 6 I even put a bilstein on the front and an adjustable on the rear and the handling did not change.
BUt at the Drag race track we put the fronts on position 1 and the rear on position 12 and the car dead hooked and lifted the front to transfer weight.
Why did we build our GT2 adjustable shocks? $500 lower price to meet the demand. Adjustability for dual purpose use. and we wanted to make an affordable coil over package with as few compromises as possible in this price range.
Pretty long winded answer but I am proud of them both. They are not designed for Stock ride height. Both need to have the car lowered at least an inch.
I hope this answer the question.
Sorry I was only looking at my "recent posts" in a search and did not see this question.
I know.....SHOCKING!
see you at the races.
Lou G
Hope this helps.
LG
-----------------------------------------
Hi Guys,
I am out of town at the ALMS race (not racing) trying to solidify my deal for Petit with our car.
To answer your question, there is more than one reason. Price is one of them and if you want adjustability.
If you are going to do mainly track racing, and you plan on lowering it to be better on track, then you just have to make the Price decision.
I have run on both sets on track. Bilstein shocks have their own feel to them. I have run other shocks and really have never had a shock that feels like a Bilstein, mainly over bumps.
All of our package use GM T1 sway bars. they work as intended so don't be fooled by "widgets" that just look good but don't really work as intended with regard to sway bars.
OK-- If money was no object, and road racing was the only use ever, then I would run the bilsteins for a couple of reasons. (on a street car)
I already know that the valving is where I set it when we did our testing. So for road racing only, I would not change them. (not the case if you plan on drag racing)
And if I was not going to adjust them, then the Bilsteins are a racing shock and that would be my choice.
If price OR multiple use is the objective AND you might go to the drag strip, or road race track OR take a long over the road trip...Then the adjustable shocks are the answer.
Technically, we had our new Adjustable shocks built with our Bilstein valving set in the middle of the adjuster. Position 6 out of 12 is equal to our Bilstein Valving.
Other differences are that the Bilstein shock bodies are Aluminum and lighter, and they are built to be mounted upside down. Less overall weight and less unsprung weight with the bilstein shocks.
the Adjustable shocks use steel bodies but really nice billet aluminum parts everywhere else.
BOTH shock packages have NO RUBBER mounts, and spherical bearings everywhere. RUBBER or hard grinding plastic is not acceptable in a performance shock.
On position 6 I even put a bilstein on the front and an adjustable on the rear and the handling did not change.
BUt at the Drag race track we put the fronts on position 1 and the rear on position 12 and the car dead hooked and lifted the front to transfer weight.
Why did we build our GT2 adjustable shocks? $500 lower price to meet the demand. Adjustability for dual purpose use. and we wanted to make an affordable coil over package with as few compromises as possible in this price range.
Pretty long winded answer but I am proud of them both. They are not designed for Stock ride height. Both need to have the car lowered at least an inch.
I hope this answer the question.
Sorry I was only looking at my "recent posts" in a search and did not see this question.
I know.....SHOCKING!
see you at the races.
Lou G
08-17-2009, 12:03 PM
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Here is what I wrote on another thread about the same subject.
Hope this helps.
LG
-----------------------------------------
Hi Guys,
I am out of town at the ALMS race (not racing) trying to solidify my deal for Petit with our car.
To answer your question, there is more than one reason. Price is one of them and if you want adjustability.
If you are going to do mainly track racing, and you plan on lowering it to be better on track, then you just have to make the Price decision.
I have run on both sets on track. Bilstein shocks have their own feel to them. I have run other shocks and really have never had a shock that feels like a Bilstein, mainly over bumps.
All of our package use GM T1 sway bars. they work as intended so don't be fooled by "widgets" that just look good but don't really work as intended with regard to sway bars.
OK-- If money was no object, and road racing was the only use ever, then I would run the bilsteins for a couple of reasons. (on a street car)
I already know that the valving is where I set it when we did our testing. So for road racing only, I would not change them. (not the case if you plan on drag racing)
And if I was not going to adjust them, then the Bilsteins are a racing shock and that would be my choice.
If price OR multiple use is the objective AND you might go to the drag strip, or road race track OR take a long over the road trip...Then the adjustable shocks are the answer.
Technically, we had our new Adjustable shocks built with our Bilstein valving set in the middle of the adjuster. Position 6 out of 12 is equal to our Bilstein Valving.
Other differences are that the Bilstein shock bodies are Aluminum and lighter, and they are built to be mounted upside down. Less overall weight and less unsprung weight with the bilstein shocks.
the Adjustable shocks use steel bodies but really nice billet aluminum parts everywhere else.
BOTH shock packages have NO RUBBER mounts, and spherical bearings everywhere. RUBBER or hard grinding plastic is not acceptable in a performance shock.
On position 6 I even put a bilstein on the front and an adjustable on the rear and the handling did not change.
BUt at the Drag race track we put the fronts on position 1 and the rear on position 12 and the car dead hooked and lifted the front to transfer weight.
Why did we build our GT2 adjustable shocks? $500 lower price to meet the demand. Adjustability for dual purpose use. and we wanted to make an affordable coil over package with as few compromises as possible in this price range.
Pretty long winded answer but I am proud of them both. They are not designed for Stock ride height. Both need to have the car lowered at least an inch.
I hope this answer the question.
Sorry I was only looking at my "recent posts" in a search and did not see this question.
I know.....SHOCKING!
see you at the races.
Lou G
Hope this helps.
LG
-----------------------------------------
Hi Guys,
I am out of town at the ALMS race (not racing) trying to solidify my deal for Petit with our car.
To answer your question, there is more than one reason. Price is one of them and if you want adjustability.
If you are going to do mainly track racing, and you plan on lowering it to be better on track, then you just have to make the Price decision.
I have run on both sets on track. Bilstein shocks have their own feel to them. I have run other shocks and really have never had a shock that feels like a Bilstein, mainly over bumps.
All of our package use GM T1 sway bars. they work as intended so don't be fooled by "widgets" that just look good but don't really work as intended with regard to sway bars.
OK-- If money was no object, and road racing was the only use ever, then I would run the bilsteins for a couple of reasons. (on a street car)
I already know that the valving is where I set it when we did our testing. So for road racing only, I would not change them. (not the case if you plan on drag racing)
And if I was not going to adjust them, then the Bilsteins are a racing shock and that would be my choice.
If price OR multiple use is the objective AND you might go to the drag strip, or road race track OR take a long over the road trip...Then the adjustable shocks are the answer.
Technically, we had our new Adjustable shocks built with our Bilstein valving set in the middle of the adjuster. Position 6 out of 12 is equal to our Bilstein Valving.
Other differences are that the Bilstein shock bodies are Aluminum and lighter, and they are built to be mounted upside down. Less overall weight and less unsprung weight with the bilstein shocks.
the Adjustable shocks use steel bodies but really nice billet aluminum parts everywhere else.
BOTH shock packages have NO RUBBER mounts, and spherical bearings everywhere. RUBBER or hard grinding plastic is not acceptable in a performance shock.
On position 6 I even put a bilstein on the front and an adjustable on the rear and the handling did not change.
BUt at the Drag race track we put the fronts on position 1 and the rear on position 12 and the car dead hooked and lifted the front to transfer weight.
Why did we build our GT2 adjustable shocks? $500 lower price to meet the demand. Adjustability for dual purpose use. and we wanted to make an affordable coil over package with as few compromises as possible in this price range.
Pretty long winded answer but I am proud of them both. They are not designed for Stock ride height. Both need to have the car lowered at least an inch.
I hope this answer the question.
Sorry I was only looking at my "recent posts" in a search and did not see this question.
I know.....SHOCKING!
see you at the races.
Lou G
So can you feel me in with more information on the LG2?
1. What material is the LG2 shock made of?
2. Is the LG2 Gas filled with a separate gas chamber?
3. What Brand of spring is being used? What are the spring rates?
4. Does the shock length cause it to bottom out when it is loaded in a corner?
5. Who is the manufacture and are they made in the USA?
I noticed you run Penske's on the race car. I like Penske's but they are a little rich for my blood. I thought you used the G2's? I'm just curious why you're using Penske's when you say Bilstein's are the best?
How did the event go this weekend?
I appreciate your time!!
08-17-2009, 04:35 PM
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Thanks Lou!!!
So can you feel me in with more information on the LG2?
1. What material is the LG2 shock made of?
2. Is the LG2 Gas filled with a separate gas chamber?
3. What Brand of spring is being used? What are the spring rates?
4. Does the shock length cause it to bottom out when it is loaded in a corner?
5. Who is the manufacture and are they made in the USA?
I noticed you run Penske's on the race car. I like Penske's but they are a little rich for my blood. I thought you used the G2's? I'm just curious why you're using Penske's when you say Bilstein's are the best?
How did the event go this weekend?
I appreciate your time!!
So can you feel me in with more information on the LG2?
1. What material is the LG2 shock made of?
2. Is the LG2 Gas filled with a separate gas chamber?
3. What Brand of spring is being used? What are the spring rates?
4. Does the shock length cause it to bottom out when it is loaded in a corner?
5. Who is the manufacture and are they made in the USA?
I noticed you run Penske's on the race car. I like Penske's but they are a little rich for my blood. I thought you used the G2's? I'm just curious why you're using Penske's when you say Bilstein's are the best?
How did the event go this weekend?
I appreciate your time!!
The penskes on my race car are a little rich for my blood too!
Bodies are steel, with aluminum ends
Springs are made for us.
Does the shock length bottom out????? are you kidding
Top secret manufacturer and only part of them are made in the USA, just like the Corvette.
And just like our Bilsteins.
Hope that helps. Unless you want the manufacturer phone number and a set of our drawings.
LG
08-17-2009, 06:59 PM
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The penskes on my race car are a little rich for my blood too!
Bodies are steel, with aluminum ends
Springs are made for us.
Does the shock length bottom out????? are you kidding
Top secret manufacturer and only part of them are made in the USA, just like the Corvette.
And just like our Bilsteins.
Hope that helps. Unless you want the manufacturer phone number and a set of our drawings.
LG
Bodies are steel, with aluminum ends
Springs are made for us.
Does the shock length bottom out????? are you kidding
Top secret manufacturer and only part of them are made in the USA, just like the Corvette.
And just like our Bilsteins.
Hope that helps. Unless you want the manufacturer phone number and a set of our drawings.
LG
Why do you run adjustable Penske's on the race car? The G2 says they are dialed for every type of condition? I'm just curious and trying to make an educated decision. I would think an adjustable shock would be good for different tracks; some are smooth and you can use stiff damping and some are rough and would benefit from being softer.
Does the LG2 have a separate gas chamber? Do the bearings make noise over time or are they quite?
Manufactures phone # please!
08-18-2009, 09:53 AM
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We use Penske 4 way adjustable shocks on the Race car because we have a "Shock engineer" with us at the track and when they use the data, they can and do fine tune the shocks.
I am not a shock engineer, and neither are most of us. So a single adjustable is the most we need to just adjust them in both directions to make them softer or harder, but not to adjust bump and rebound differently.
A 4 way adjustable shock can be adjusted for different tracks. If that is what you want, and you think you have the talent to determine when to change what and how much, then get a Penske like ours for over $8k per car. Race cars have what they have because they have the money and the engineer to know what to change.
Our shocks are gas pressurized for sure but it is done at the factory on both Bilsteins and our new shocks.
We use a teflon lined bearing that has stayed quiet over time, so that has not been an issue.
Our shocks will allow adjustment to soften or stiffen the ride but that is a small part of what a shock engineer needs to work with a shock. (low speed, high speed, blow off, linear, digressive, ramp, hysteresis, etc. You won't get that for $1800 for a set of 4.
Hope that helps.
Thanks
Lou G
I am not a shock engineer, and neither are most of us. So a single adjustable is the most we need to just adjust them in both directions to make them softer or harder, but not to adjust bump and rebound differently.
A 4 way adjustable shock can be adjusted for different tracks. If that is what you want, and you think you have the talent to determine when to change what and how much, then get a Penske like ours for over $8k per car. Race cars have what they have because they have the money and the engineer to know what to change.
Our shocks are gas pressurized for sure but it is done at the factory on both Bilsteins and our new shocks.
We use a teflon lined bearing that has stayed quiet over time, so that has not been an issue.
Our shocks will allow adjustment to soften or stiffen the ride but that is a small part of what a shock engineer needs to work with a shock. (low speed, high speed, blow off, linear, digressive, ramp, hysteresis, etc. You won't get that for $1800 for a set of 4.
Hope that helps.
Thanks
Lou G
08-19-2009, 04:30 PM
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I’m still on the fence. I was hoping to get some answers on where they are made and I’m not sure I’m comfortable with all of the contradictions. The line has been – adjustability is not necessary and Bilsteins/Hypercoils are the only way to go. But with these new units, all of that’s out the window.
I want an adjustable coil over set up but these adjustable units are new and I haven't seen any feedback for them from actual customers.
What other options do I have that aren't $8K?
I want an adjustable coil over set up but these adjustable units are new and I haven't seen any feedback for them from actual customers.
What other options do I have that aren't $8K?
08-19-2009, 04:45 PM
#17
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The HardbarUSA Penskes aren't $8k. 8300 double adjustables are $3300, plus $800 for the dual-rate springs. $4100. Half of your $8k number. Or 8760 triple adjustables for $4700 (plus the springs) .. $5500.
Motons are probably in between the Penske 8300s and 8760s price wise, and set up with single rate springs you cut some cost there.
Pfadt adjustables are there. MSI has QA1 adjustables. You've looked at the LGM GT2s.
Again, though... why adjustables? I was a huge proponent of adjustable everything, but I have to tell you that I went with the DRM Bilsteins and I've not once wanted a **** to turn. I drive them pretty much every day, too. Fine for the commute, great when I push on them.
You could also consider calling RAFTRACER and looking at KONI 2812s and VBP springs...
Motons are probably in between the Penske 8300s and 8760s price wise, and set up with single rate springs you cut some cost there.
Pfadt adjustables are there. MSI has QA1 adjustables. You've looked at the LGM GT2s.
Again, though... why adjustables? I was a huge proponent of adjustable everything, but I have to tell you that I went with the DRM Bilsteins and I've not once wanted a **** to turn. I drive them pretty much every day, too. Fine for the commute, great when I push on them.
You could also consider calling RAFTRACER and looking at KONI 2812s and VBP springs...