Charley Hoyt

I am looking to get some tips on how to better execute heel-toe down shifting. I have been trying to roll the side of my foot from the brake to the accelerator....with mixed results. It seems like it would work well if I built a pedal extender. How do the more experienced driver Heal-toe?

Thanks for the help.

Charley

sothpaw2

I've struggled with it as have you. I have had much more success with pedal spacers on the brake pedal to at least extend it upward in case I have long pedal issues which seem somewhat unavoidable with the stock calipers. What really bothered me about heel-toe was when I would get the long pedal and the brake pedal would be lower or the same height when under hard braking as the gas. I want to reach DOWN with the right half of the foot to get the gas. I don't want to have to roll the foot left /upward on the brake pedal to avoid touching the gas, then roll it back down.

Just now I've also fabbed an aluminum gas pedal out of .032" aluminum sheet. This just goes over the stock gas pedal and is held secure with zipties so it can be removed at anytime. Same with the brake pedal spacers (having several as shims means I can adjust it on the fly too).

bluemagoo

I've been there as well. I've added a gas pedal extender (to make it wider) that's helped me be more consistent and not worry about missing the accelerator or slipping off the brake pedal on downshifts. Plus lots of practice....

There are lots of opinions on the best way to do this. Ken Melgoza from Spring Mountain posted a great 2-part primer on this very subject a while back. It might be a good topic for a "sticky".

Part 1: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...roduction.html

Part 2: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...ving-tips.html

Z Fast

These are the pedals I use (the wide one).

http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/C6_Pedals.html

The technique for heel toe is dependant on the dimensions of your foot and the pedal spacing and any interference near the pedals, and most importantly what works for you consistantly. My foot is long(size 14) and narrow. With my racing shoes, my foot can almost fall between the Z06 OEM throttle and brake pedals. On the Z06 with the Elite pedal, I roll onto the throttle with the side of my foot for the blip, but in my race car I actually heel/toe due to the differences in pedal spacing and under dash interference. Remember, a person with a size 8 and tripple EEE shoe size may use a different technique than me in the same car.

There is lots of information on the different ways to so called 'heel/toe'. Read and learn. There is no right or wrong technique. The only technique that matters is the one you can consistanlty control the blip and modulate brake pressure everytime. Find what works for you and practice, practice, practice.

Tom

0Robert@SPEEDSOUTH

Check out the track pedal. I have one on mine, used it on several cars actually, and it works great.

http://www.precisionfabricationcompo...m/products.htm

sothpaw2

In regards to what Tom said--with my long legs (34" inseam) they wind up getting close to the dash if I'm close enough with my arms to the steering wheel to have bend. So I can't execute a movement say where you actually rotate the whole foot and get the gas with the heel keeping the ball on the brake. That movement necessitates leg movement that I can't do because of interference.

socalspringmountain

Thanks Bluemagoo!

Charley, Everyone here has pretty much summed it up. Pedal extenders can be a real help. But as already stated, LOTS of practice.

I highly recommend you do this in a safe area where there is nothing to hit (or at a driving school ) We have a great special going on right now, see this thread. CF members get 15% off!

You can also just sit in your car with the engine off, parking brake set and practice the technique.

To practice the "blip" part, start the car, leave the transmission in neutral, set the parking brake and practice pressing hard on the brake, and blipping the throttle. NO SHIFTING. You are just trying to learn the blip part. Make sure there is nothing in front of you in case you accidentally put the car in gear.

Always be safe.

Take care,

Ken

Timz06

Just learn how to drive properly, pedal extensions are not necessary.

Tim

cgh1

Two tips I have on the subject:
1 - Practice, practice, practice!
2 - Stop thinking about it! After you've mastered the basic mechanics of what needs to be done, thinking about it while doing it just slows the whole process and results in more poor shifts than simply trusting you'll get it right and letting your muscle memory do its thing. Just like anything else, thinking too much about it (analysis paralysis) just gets in the way.

HTH

sothpaw2

They help immeasurably if you have a long brake pedal (which changes depending on how hot your pads get--taper).

worldsaway

The car I have the most trouble with is a C4, just not much room. I think it needs to be second nature, not something you have to think about (as if we need something else on our mind setting up for a turn). I just do it all the time, even on the street. That's when I finally got good at it. This last week a friend and I were discussing the day's track runs, and he said he wasn't doing heel and toe since he was downshifting in a straight line and the car quickly recovered. I say why have to think about it, just do it. Ed

SouthernSon

I had to learn 2 different ways. For the last couple of years I have used the elite engineering pedal on my C5. It works well by simply rolling my foot onto it sideways. However, when I went to Bondurant this year, I found the stock C6 pedals would not allow my size 9 shoe to reach it by simply rolling my foot sideways. Also, the pedals were not in the same plane of rest. I had to break hard with the ball and toes of my foot on the pedal (pointing toward the driver side door in pigeon-toed fashion) and picking my heel up off the floorboard and blipping the throttle with my heel. Felt awkward for the first 15 minutes and then all was OK. Practice and you can do it with whatever you have.

Poor-sha

I've tried a couple times to switch from using the "roll your foot over" method to the "turn your food sideways" method. Everytime I get messed up with my braking as soon as I move my heel off the floor.

Transitioning from that nice anchor point on the floor and using my ankle to effectively using my thigh and holding my leg off the ground makes it very difficult for me to control brake pressure. I seem to recall most instructors telling you not to use your large muscles for most things in car control so I wonder if I'm missing something all together here.

sothpaw2

Agreed, I think once you learn you heel-toe on the street with every shift(I certainly have for a while). Hard stops as found on the track are a little different though--I find for a hard stop I tend to put my foot more towards the center of the brake pedal to get better feel so I don't feel like the foot will slip off the pedal under huge braking force. So this is why I thought a gas pedal cover to make them closer might pay a dividend. We'll see.

Webz

Does the Photon know about this??

Jason

Just practice every single downshift. The light will come on suddenly and you'll wonder what you were stuggling with all along.

mountainbiker2

Just use plywood my friend. Zip tie it to the gas pedal. Try 1/8" first. About 3/8" wider then the gas pedal.

Steve

Doc V.

I doubt if you need a pedal extension. Instead, I suspect that your technique is the issue.
Don't focus on flexing your ankle (in fact, reduce the flex in your ankle); after you make the transition from the throttle to the brake, focus on moving your right leg--particularly your knee--from left to right to blip the throttle.

Take a look at this driver's technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_0qsl_uLj0

____________
PCA National Instructor
GVC-BMW CCA Instructor
Trackmasters Instructor

Z Fast

Ideally you would not "roll your foot". By doing so you will most likely affect the pressure on the brake. Actually doing a heel/toe, "turn your foot sideways" does take away the secure feeling of having your heel on the floor. You are correct about using fine muscle for fine control in a car. This also applies to things such as steering...pull down with the hand closest to the apex(right turn, pull down with the right arm) and only use the other hand to assit and stabilize.

So here's a method that I have use for heel/toe(throttle blip). Use the side of your foot for the throttle blip, but instead of "roll your foot" method, try rolling your leg. This will allow you to keep your heel anchored to the floor and keep your ankle/foot stiff. What this does is allow the braking pressure to be more easily maintained and controlled. So how do you roll your leg. First, it will take practice just to find the right placement for your heel during braking. Ideally I like to find the place where my heel placement is ideal for both brake and throttle through out the race/session. One other thing when finding the right placement for your heel...you will want your right knee as close to the steering column as possible. The reason for this is so you will be able to roll it to the right(more on that in a bit). Now here's the part that may be most difficult to explain. Roll your leg.....picture your heel achored to the floor, and your hip anchored to the seat. Once you have this visualized, the only movement would be your leg from side to side. You achieve this by moving your knee from left to right(that's why it is important to have your knee positioned as close to the steering column as possible to allow the roll). When doing this you are using different muscles that are not really involved with brake pressure which in turn leaves those muscles only one job...brake control.

A very important consideration is this will require near perfect placement of pedals. They need to be close enough so when you roll your leg the side of your foot will make contact with the throttle. Next crucial adjustment is pedal height...the relationship of the brake pedal height to the throttle. This has to be right to get the the throttle blip of approx 3k RPM while under threshold braking(the amount of RPM blip required has a lot to do with gear ratios). Ideally a set of fully adjustable pedals is preferred, but you can achieve proper pedal placement with trial and error by usung replacement pedals, bolt-on pedals, etc. By the way, a good set of driving/racing shoes is also an important part of the equation. And being strapped into the seat(5 or 6 point harness) to hold you securely so you are not using your legs to support yourself during turns is equally important. And of course, practice, practice practice. I learn on a non-syncronized racing transmission many years ago, so the throttle blip between each ship is twice that of a synchronized transmission. It does get busy in the foot well.

BO= brake on
RB= release brake
CI= clutch in
CO= clutch out
TB= throttle blip
DS= down shift
N= nuetral

Synchronize transmission steps:
BO - CI - TB & DS - CO - RB


Non-Synchronize transmission steps:
BO - CI - N - CO - TB - CI - DS - CO - RB


For those who have been doing this for a long time know we can skip many of these steps by rev matching, but that does take great execution in order not to screw up the tranny.

Remember, the correct way to heel/toe is the way that allows you to maintain/modulate brakes while rev matching consistantly every time. I have seen some use strange techniques but are very good at it and they get the job done.

Also, if you are running at the low end of the RPM range, the need to blip the throttle becomes deminished because the RPM difference between downshifts becomes less which in turn creates less engine drag. So when practicing you need to be at least in the middle RPM range to get the feel of it.

Tom

Charley Hoyt

Thanks for all of the great advice. It has been very helpful. I think my next step is to get the pedals closer together by using a pedal extender. Then I will continue to practice, practice, practice,practice.

Charley