rickkym

I just had my car aligned for autocrossing and now want to experiment with adding more toe-out in the front.

What is the best way to mark the threads so I can get back to where it is now? To get toe out I'll be shortening the arms so the turnbuckles will be going over the threads and would strip off paint, wont they?

Thanks!!

davidfarmer

better just to count the "flats" and write them down.

Also, learn to actually measure the toe so that you can double check it occasionally.

**to get toe out in the front, you lengthen the arms, but you'll have to loosen the jam nut which would damage any writing as you suggest*** The rear is opposite

BrianCunningham

I just put a piece of tape on the tierod

wtknght1

Yep, get a set of toe plates!!!

C5Lion

Ideally, where should you measure the toe? Is it good enough to come straight down from where the rim meets the tire?

If I was to make my own toe plates, where do they typically measure the toe from? Is it from the edge of the tire?

Lastly, how do toe plates get around the tire bulge at the bottom of the tire?

wtknght1

Buy a set of Longacre plates and you'll see...it's easy. You'll run one measuring tape in front and one behind the tires. If the measurement on the front tape is shorter, then you have toe in, etc. It's no sweat!

autoxer6

I mark the tie rod and end with a paint pen. I have 3 colors on them for different settings.

I reset my rear toe after every autox because I run a good amount and try to limit tire wear.

Kudos to you for trying different settings. Everybody likes something different!

C5Lion

I am really asking since I want to make my own. I manually am checking the toe where the rim meets the tire and running tape measures.

dbratten

You can measure from any point and get relative distances. I don't know how far out from the centerline of the axle would be the correct place to measure (someone better in math can answer that) but I'll guess that it is a foot in front and a foot to the rear of centerline. Looking at the plates that can be purchased that appears to be where they place the two tape measures to check toe.

I either measure on the grooves of the tire (if there are grooves) from side to side using the same groove front and back (down low enough that the tape will stay in place for one-person measurements) or I'll measure on the outside sidewall edge of the tire if I have my gauge with me. The gauge is just a couple of uprights and a piece of EMT that is placed against the tire or rim and then the measurement is taken between the uprights.

Again, I'm only looking for relative distance when setting toe. It doesn't matter to me if it's actually exactly 1/32" or 1/16" (let alone tenth of a degree) as long as it's repeatable. I change it so often between race and street settings that precision is an illusion.

As Dave says, count the flats. From where I measure, I've found a flat to be equal to about 1/32" per side. So, turning one flat on each side gives 1/16" of toe change. It will get you close enough to win the big money we're racing for in autox and HPDE and also give you great tire wear.

The plates I've seen are just L's that can be made. To allow for the tire bulge they just have a section in the middle cut out at the bottom that will span the tire at bottom center. An opening of 6-8 inches wide should be enough with 2-3 inches in height to clear.

--Dan

wtknght1

Why? Longacre sells a great kit for less than $50. You can't make a better set for less.

davidfarmer

there is a ripoff copy of Longacre plates on Ébay, although they don't include tapes. $35 delivered Unless you have aluminum and a brake already, I don't think you can make them that cheaply.

I'm fine with my $6 setup (straight edge and tape).

hey, and just a quick note, I use 3 "flats" = 1/16". In my experience, a flat isn't quite 1/32"

C5Lion

When you have 2 machinists that work for you and your company makes CNC controls and machines, you can.

C5Lion

I actually went through the exercise of going from a street to track setup for the 1st time last night and it was pretty easy. I went from -1.5 camber to -2.6 or so. I removed 3 washers from the upper A arm. Next time I will remove all 4 and probably get -3 camber. I then adjusted the toe by turning each tie rod 1 1/2 turns or 9 flats like most like to describe it.

Does anyone know what size thread is on the tie rod? Is it metric like most other hardware?

I actually measured 0.070" with 1 rev of the tie rod. I mounted an 0.001" dial indicator on the edge of the rotor (tire was off). Based on 0.070" of measurement, it looks to me that it might be a M12 x 1.75 mm pitch which works out to 0.069".

davidfarmer

M12 sounds right, as you use a 13mm wrench to turn them, but I've never checked? Are you planning on making your own tie rod ends also, or are you just trying to calculate the exact change "per flat"?

BOTTOMS UP

how about making a toe-bar ?
cheap and quick

dbratten

David,

As we've each posted numbers of flats to count to give a toe change and have different results I'll ask a question or two along with my understanding of this. The toe measurement in inches will vary depending on how far out from the axle centerline it's measured, correct?

For instance, if I measure at the base of the tire which is maybe 4-5" out from center vs. at the rim (8-10") vs. on the tire (12-14") the toe will be greater in inches the farther out one goes. If that's the case then the number of flats has to correspond to that point of measurement and will vary if not.

I'm thinking that the flats method will always yield a set number of degrees of toe regardless of how far from centerline. Is that right?

Thanks for any insight you (or anyone else can offer.)

--Dan

davidfarmer

Dan, you are correct. I measure at the rim edge. I'd got out even further, but I feel the tire shape can become inconsistent once you leave the rim. I measure camber the same way so that I have a consistent set of numbers I can easily remember.

1/32" = 0.1deg (for toe measurement) .....which works out to 1" = 3deg (for camber measurement with tape-level) when my camber gauge isn't handy

YOU should absolutely come up with a system that works for you, AND that you don't have to relearn every time you do it.

dbratten

Thanks, David. Using the rim edge (as shown in your tutorials) is a good way to go. Yes, I agree and have developed a repeatable method that only takes a few minutes to switch settings. It sure is nice to not pay for alignments.

--Dan

C66 Racing

I agree. These are very easy to use and pretty inexpensive (about $60 last time I looked). Definitely a better option than marking and not knowing exactly what you have - even if you count flats on the tie rod.